Was Textbook Piracy; Now Cost of School

December 18, 2006

Last week an acupuncturist broke down on my shoulder because she, like

you, cannot service her school debt. She's a lovely, bright person

with a number of years experience. She even works in a hospital

setting. But yet she can't pay off her school loans. I sat with her

for more than an hour trying to help her figure out a way out of her

mess and basically couldn't. If this young acupunbcturist were a

flake, thjat'd be one thing. But she's not. She's a very hard worker

and, I believe, a good practitioner. Since she has zero capital to

invest in starting her own clinic, she's in a bind.

There definitely is a dirty little secret here. Many older (and even

famous) practitioners, including myself, started practicing with only

100 or so hours of training in acupuncture per se and we did just

fine. Got good results and didn't hurt anyone. I believe this even

includes some of the owners of schools. Given what seem to the average

earnings, it is hard to see how the current cost of tuition is

reasonable in terms of return on investment (ROI). While I believe

anyone who is smart and willing to work hard can earn $100K doing this

medicine, it requires the ability to capitalize (from somewhere) your

own clinic, and people already saddled with lots of unpaid debt may

find it impossible to get enough working capital to do that.

Bob

December 18, 2006

Bob

I contacted Mercy College to see what their program cost and got this reply.

Apparently, it was not worth their while to maintain a program at all.

" Ford, Charles " <CFord

December 18, 2006 2:27:04 PM EST

<

RE: cost of program

I am sorry to say that those are academic questions as " not accepting students "

is a euphemism for the program is closed. Good luck in your search and happy

holidays

Charles Ford, MTOM, L.Ac.

Assistant Professor and Program Director

The Graduate Program in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine

Mercy Manhattan Campus

66 West 35th St., N.Y.,N.Y., 10001

(vox) 212 615 3352

(fax) 212 967 7235

cford

________________________________

Mon 12/18/2006 1:55 PM

Ford, Charles

cost of program

Hello

I know you are not accepting new students, but I am curious how much your total

program costs in terms of tuition, books, and other expenses.

Thanks.

Instructional Designer

Department of e-Learning

Savannah College of Art and Design

voice: (912) 525-8033

fax: (912) 525-8035

December 18, 2006

Bob

In my case, I did have capitalization once upon a time, but I was not savvy

enough to know what needed to be done to succeed, as I was still in my

idealistic phase. Perhaps those who take Honora's advice and also have some

capital will indeed succeed. Sadly, I think such folks are few and far between.

It really means you need to be able to risk at least another 50-100K on top of

your education. That is for the stomachs of serious entrepreneurs, not those who

want to spend an hour with their patients like I did. No one should weep for me,

though. I landed on my feet, now make more than I ever did in TCM, and expect to

be making that 100K in the next 5 years. I am also fortunate enough to have

family support in dealing with my current debts, something they were only

willing to do after I came to my senses, though.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001

>

> Last week an acupuncturist broke down on my shoulder because she, like

> you, cannot service her school debt. She's a lovely, bright person

> with a number of years experience. She even works in a hospital

> setting. But yet she can't pay off her school loans. I sat with her

> for more than an hour trying to help her figure out a way out of her

> mess and basically couldn't. If this young acupunbcturist were a

> flake, thjat'd be one thing. But she's not. She's a very hard worker

> and, I believe, a good practitioner. Since she has zero capital to

> invest in starting her own clinic, she's in a bind.

>

> There definitely is a dirty little secret here. Many older (and even

> famous) practitioners, including myself, started practicing with only

> 100 or so hours of training in acupuncture per se and we did just

> fine. Got good results and didn't hurt anyone. I believe this even

> includes some of the owners of schools. Given what seem to the average

> earnings, it is hard to see how the current cost of tuition is

> reasonable in terms of return on investment (ROI). While I believe

> anyone who is smart and willing to work hard can earn $100K doing this

> medicine, it requires the ability to capitalize (from somewhere) your

> own clinic, and people already saddled with lots of unpaid debt may

> find it impossible to get enough working capital to do that.

>

> Bob

>

December 18, 2006

" In my case, I did have capitalization once upon a time, but I was not

savvy enough to know what needed to be done to succeed, as I was still

in my idealistic phase. "

What's the old saw? He who is not a radical when young has no heart,

but he who is not a conservative when old has no head (wisdom,

intelligence, or something along those lines).

The truth is, life goes by very fast, and you need to have a certain

amount in the bank by a certain age in order to live in a certain

comfort when you get old.

Bob

December 18, 2006

At tai Sophia, where I run the herb department, the students are responsible

for generating paying clients to treat. At first I was taken aback ( and

yes- I am basically in Bob¹s generation of practitioners. My education was

1200 hrs and cost a total of $3000- this was 24 years ago. And there was no

student clinic yet.).

But at the end of the day- tai¹s students are well equipped to generate a

practice based on their clinical experience at school. I am impressed with

their success. I will ask the school for their statistics regarding how many

students are in active practice after graduation.

is there a way that schools could teach marketing techniques more

effectively? I have always found the single most effective practice building

activity to be lectures.

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

<

Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:51:19 +0000

Re: Was Textbook Piracy; Now Cost of School

Bob

In my case, I did have capitalization once upon a time, but I was not savvy

enough to know what needed to be done to succeed, as I was still in my

idealistic phase. Perhaps those who take Honora's advice and also have some

capital will indeed succeed. Sadly, I think such folks are few and far

between. It really means you need to be able to risk at least another

50-100K on top of your education. That is for the stomachs of serious

entrepreneurs, not those who want to spend an hour with their patients like

I did. No one should weep for me, though. I landed on my feet, now make more

than I ever did in TCM, and expect to be making that 100K in the next 5

years. I am also fortunate enough to have family support in dealing with my

current debts, something they were only willing to do after I came to my

senses, though.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001

<pemachophel2001%40> >