Guest guest Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 Hi all, I would love to hear a discussion about the role we play in prevention. Knowing that the way works and is via pattern discrimination, I get a bit lost when patients come to me for treatments to prevent some deep seated, latent, disease from coming up, when they appear to be healthy in the present sense. When I cannot find any signs and symptoms for which to build a pattern and thus a treatment principle. I recently had a patient ask for help because she has chronic wide spread excema that is under control when she is on the birth control pill. She wants to come off this drug but is afraid of the rash coming back. If she is not exhibiting the excema in the moment is the best approach to " wait and see " or .... This could be for reccurent sinusitis, herpes simplex/ zoster, asthma ect. Love to hear peoples thoughts, Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Im no expert, but with diseases like excema and asthma etc, you can treat during the " remission " stage to treat the underlying cause of the disorder and to help prevent the acute stage. So with asthma you can use something like Yu Ping Feng San, Xiang Sha Liu Jun Zi Tang, Bu Fei Tang or whatever to treat the underlying constitutional problem. WIth Excema I guess you would look at similar underlying constitutional problems such as eg spleen deficiency etc and tonify that. What I cant work out, is what do you do if someone comes to you with say, subclinical or asymptomatic hepatitis C and wants to avoid either an acute episode or hepatoma down the track? How do you go about treating that? Or is it the same principle of tonification during remission stages? (I know western herbs that apply, but not the CM differentiation) Regards, Lea. , " Trevor Erikson " <trevor_erikson wrote: > > Hi all, > I would love to hear a discussion about the role we play in prevention. Knowing that the > way works and is via pattern discrimination, I get a bit lost when > patients come to me for treatments to prevent some deep seated, latent, disease from > coming up, when they appear to be healthy in the present sense. When I cannot find any > signs and symptoms for which to build a pattern and thus a treatment principle. > I recently had a patient ask for help because she has chronic wide spread excema that is > under control when she is on the birth control pill. She wants to come off this drug but is > afraid of the rash coming back. If she is not exhibiting the excema in the moment is the > best approach to " wait and see " or .... > This could be for reccurent sinusitis, herpes simplex/ zoster, asthma ect. > > Love to hear peoples thoughts, > Trevor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Thanks Lea, I understand the idea behind Yu Ping Feng San and Bu fei Tang, but again these treatmetns are based on a pattern discrimination. Like you Lea I am a bit lost when it comes to treating the diseases that lay hidden and dormant like Hep C, or Herpes Simplex. What is a good treatment plan when there are no signs and symptoms related to that hidden disease. That is, unless I am not able to identify them. Trevor disease , " Lea Starck " <leabun1 wrote: > > Im no expert, but with diseases like excema and asthma etc, you can > treat during the " remission " stage to treat the underlying cause of the > disorder and to help prevent the acute stage. So with asthma you can > use something like Yu Ping Feng San, Xiang Sha Liu Jun Zi Tang, Bu > Fei Tang or whatever to treat the underlying constitutional problem. > WIth Excema I guess you would look at similar underlying > constitutional problems such as eg spleen deficiency etc and tonify > that. > What I cant work out, is what do you do if someone comes to you with > say, subclinical or asymptomatic hepatitis C and wants to avoid either > an acute episode or hepatoma down the track? How do you go about > treating that? Or is it the same principle of tonification during remission > stages? (I know western herbs that apply, but not the CM differentiation) > Regards, > Lea. > , " Trevor Erikson " > <trevor_erikson@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I would love to hear a discussion about the role we play in > prevention. Knowing that the > > way works and is via pattern discrimination, I get a > bit lost when > > patients come to me for treatments to prevent some deep seated, > latent, disease from > > coming up, when they appear to be healthy in the present sense. > When I cannot find any > > signs and symptoms for which to build a pattern and thus a treatment > principle. > > I recently had a patient ask for help because she has chronic wide > spread excema that is > > under control when she is on the birth control pill. She wants to come > off this drug but is > > afraid of the rash coming back. If she is not exhibiting the excema in > the moment is the > > best approach to " wait and see " or .... > > This could be for reccurent sinusitis, herpes simplex/ zoster, asthma > ect. > > > > Love to hear peoples thoughts, > > Trevor > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 this is a great question. The issue becomes more complex when you realize that many of these diseases are Western diseases. I think Bob Flaws has said that a disharmony can always be found and that should be treated. This may mean digging deeper into the pulse and tongue and other diagnostic skills that are beyond " confirmation " of the patient's complaints. Still I think one can treat western diseases by understanding their mechanisms in conjunction with the Chinese signs and symptoms. Just because they don't have the symptoms at the present time doesn't mean a picture can't be put together based on how the disease manifests in a more active stage. Some of these issues are addressed on my website HepcHealth.com doug , " Trevor Erikson " <trevor_erikson wrote: > > Thanks Lea, > I understand the idea behind Yu Ping Feng San and Bu fei Tang, but again these > treatmetns are based on a pattern discrimination. > Like you Lea I am a bit lost when it comes to treating the diseases that lay hidden and > dormant like Hep C, or Herpes Simplex. What is a good treatment plan when there are no > signs and symptoms related to that hidden disease. That is, unless I am not able to > identify them. > > Trevor > > disease , " Lea Starck " <leabun1@> wrote: > > > > Im no expert, but with diseases like excema and asthma etc, you can > > treat during the " remission " stage to treat the underlying cause of the > > disorder and to help prevent the acute stage. So with asthma you can > > use something like Yu Ping Feng San, Xiang Sha Liu Jun Zi Tang, Bu > > Fei Tang or whatever to treat the underlying constitutional problem. > > WIth Excema I guess you would look at similar underlying > > constitutional problems such as eg spleen deficiency etc and tonify > > that. > > What I cant work out, is what do you do if someone comes to you with > > say, subclinical or asymptomatic hepatitis C and wants to avoid either > > an acute episode or hepatoma down the track? How do you go about > > treating that? Or is it the same principle of tonification during remission > > stages? (I know western herbs that apply, but not the CM differentiation) > > Regards, > > Lea. > > , " Trevor Erikson " > > <trevor_erikson@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > I would love to hear a discussion about the role we play in > > prevention. Knowing that the > > > way works and is via pattern discrimination, I get a > > bit lost when > > > patients come to me for treatments to prevent some deep seated, > > latent, disease from > > > coming up, when they appear to be healthy in the present sense. > > When I cannot find any > > > signs and symptoms for which to build a pattern and thus a treatment > > principle. > > > I recently had a patient ask for help because she has chronic wide > > spread excema that is > > > under control when she is on the birth control pill. She wants to come > > off this drug but is > > > afraid of the rash coming back. If she is not exhibiting the excema in > > the moment is the > > > best approach to " wait and see " or .... > > > This could be for reccurent sinusitis, herpes simplex/ zoster, asthma > > ect. > > > > > > Love to hear peoples thoughts, > > > Trevor > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 On 1/15/07, Trevor Erikson <trevor_erikson wrote: > > Hi all, > I would love to hear a discussion about the role we play in > prevention. ... > I recently had a patient ask for help because she has chronic wide spread > excema that is under control when she is on the birth control pill. She > wants to come off this drug but is afraid of the rash coming back... [post > SNIPPED] > . > > > I was taught that for dermatological conditions, the first rule is you treat what you literally " see " . In other words, do not try to do a pattern discrimination based on internal s/s. The second rule was don't try to treat dermatological conditions using only internal herbs. External herbs were the primary course of treatment with the formula based on external s/s, and if internal herbs were used they were considered secondary and typically followed the pattern discrimination based on the external s/s (although some allowance could be made for things like sp qi xu or lv qi depression, etc., if present). Both these rules have served my patients well as I seem to get quite a bit of derm cases. So, in this case, I would try to get a picture of what the excema was like prior to taking BC (dampheat vs. heat in the blood vs. ???) and then work the problem backwards from there and see where that takes you. In the absence of external s/s (i.e., no external formula being necessary at this time) you could still apply the same approach to the internal prescription if you feel one is required based on your intake. I think a similar approach of working the problem backwards can be helpful for other internal med conditions that have remission/exacerbation periods. This is how I treat my patients with SLE or RA, for example. Just because a pathomechanism is laying " dormant " doesn't mean it isn't still there. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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