Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

[Guest guest]

To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese language

reference books.

 

I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of pathologies

covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy of. I'd like

something that explains the pathology and how the patterns relate to the

pathology, then gives a formula or two and modifications. If it has acupuncture

points as well that's a plus but not required. If it has classical references

that would also be great. I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

 

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, especially if you know where to buy

it that can ship to the US.

 

Thanks,

 

Par Scott

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese

language reference books.

>

> I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of

pathologies covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy

of. I'd like something that explains the pathology and how the

patterns relate to the pathology, then gives a formula or two and

modifications. If it has acupuncture points as well that's a plus but

not required. If it has classical references that would also be great.

I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

 

There is a nice orange/yellow hardcover CM internal medicine reference

book that is put out by Ren Min Wei Sheng. It's big, fairly

comprehensive, and nicely done. It's got acupuncture and other

auxiliary therapies in it as well, but often those sections are brief.

Has classical references, all the formula info, pathology and

explanations, etc. Should be able to get it from Niming books in LA,

do a web search for them and you'll find their number. I know that

there is a nice hardcover Jing Yue Quan Shu out there as well, it is

part of the great masters series, a big set of hardcover books devoted

to various physicians. Can't remember who puts it out, but Niming

should have it.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Parr,

 

I'd contact the Eastwind Bookstore in San Francisco and tell them what

you're looking for. They will ship by mail order. However, in my

experience, there is no one best, most complete Chinese nei ke book.

There are, literally, hundreds. Without going to a bookstore and

leafing through several, it's hard to say which one would fit your

bill the best. I have numerous on my shelf, and each one tends to

include diseases that the others do not.

 

If you're talking English language, as yet, nothing beats Philippe

Sionneau's seven volumne series for traditional Chinese nei ke

diseases -- 40-60 diseases per volume. These do contain discussions of

disease causes and mechanisms, one herbal formula per pattern but with

additions and subtractions, and an acu formula.

 

Bob

 

 

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese

language reference books.

>

> I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of

pathologies covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy

of. I'd like something that explains the pathology and how the

patterns relate to the pathology, then gives a formula or two and

modifications. If it has acupuncture points as well that's a plus but

not required. If it has classical references that would also be great.

I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

>

> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, especially if you know

where to buy it that can ship to the US.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Par Scott

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Eric and Bob,

 

Eric, do you have a title for this book? I went on the publishers website and

found a number of internal med books.

 

I have the Sionneau books, and I have found them very useful clinically. I'm

looking for a more reflective book that looks at the theory underlying pattern

analysis and offers a more concrete demonstration of reasoning from Sx to Dx.

For example, adding an explanation of the channel relationships with the eye in

various aspects of eye disease, or a breakdown of the various diagnostic eye

examinations that have been used historicly. I'm not even sure if such a thing

exists. I don't really want a million disease categories, rather I'd like a

better explanation of the underlying disease mechanisms and how they relate to

theory, and treatment, ideally from a variety of points of view (different

schools of thought). I might be looking for something a little more scholarly

than clinical, or something that doesn't exist, I'm just not familiar enough

with the range of material that is currently available.

 

If you or anybody else have any suggestions I'd be very interested.

 

Thank you,

 

Par Scott

-

Bob Flaws

Monday, January 22, 2007 12:09 PM

Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

 

Parr,

 

I'd contact the Eastwind Bookstore in San Francisco and tell them what

you're looking for. They will ship by mail order. However, in my

experience, there is no one best, most complete Chinese nei ke book.

There are, literally, hundreds. Without going to a bookstore and

leafing through several, it's hard to say which one would fit your

bill the best. I have numerous on my shelf, and each one tends to

include diseases that the others do not.

 

If you're talking English language, as yet, nothing beats Philippe

Sionneau's seven volumne series for traditional Chinese nei ke

diseases -- 40-60 diseases per volume. These do contain discussions of

disease causes and mechanisms, one herbal formula per pattern but with

additions and subtractions, and an acu formula.

 

Bob

 

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese

language reference books.

>

> I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of

pathologies covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy

of. I'd like something that explains the pathology and how the

patterns relate to the pathology, then gives a formula or two and

modifications. If it has acupuncture points as well that's a plus but

not required. If it has classical references that would also be great.

I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

>

> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, especially if you know

where to buy it that can ship to the US.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Par Scott

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> Thank you Eric and Bob,

>

> Eric, do you have a title for this book? I went on the publishers

website and found a number of internal med books.

 

The book I was talking about is simply titled zhong yi nei ke xue,

which of course, is the title of dozens of books. This one is

colloquially called the huang pi can kao shu, yellow cover reference

book, it is part of a large set (tao) of books on every subject.

ISBN: 7-117-03307-X

 

But I agree with Bob that there is no perfect single book, I find that

I often have to flip through several books side by side to find the

most well-expressed explanation of any given subject.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

I'll give it a shot, thanks again.

 

-

Eric Brand

Monday, January 22, 2007 1:55 PM

Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

 

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> Thank you Eric and Bob,

>

> Eric, do you have a title for this book? I went on the publishers

website and found a number of internal med books.

 

The book I was talking about is simply titled zhong yi nei ke xue,

which of course, is the title of dozens of books. This one is

colloquially called the huang pi can kao shu, yellow cover reference

book, it is part of a large set (tao) of books on every subject.

ISBN: 7-117-03307-X

 

But I agree with Bob that there is no perfect single book, I find that

I often have to flip through several books side by side to find the

most well-expressed explanation of any given subject.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Par,

 

 

 

If, as you mention, you are NOT looking for a pure volume of disease titles

and looking for more discussion, with a more limited focus on major

diseases, I would suggest the black and red 3 volume series by renmin

weisheng (ÈËÃñÎÀÉú), called jinre zhongyi neike (½ñÈÕÖÐÒ½ÄÚ¿Æ) (zhongyi

linchuang congshu -ÖÐÒ½ÁÙ´²´ÔÊé) ¨C I think that is correct, they are

unfortunately at the office. IMO, it is a step up, being much more

expansive, than the orange book that Eric mentioned. I recall I.e. that the

first chapter (in one of the books) on nei shang fa re (ÄÚÉË·¢ÈÈ) has 50+

dense pages. Hope that helps.

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of Par Scott

Monday, January 22, 2007 11:12 AM

 

Re: Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

 

 

Thank you Eric and Bob,

 

Eric, do you have a title for this book? I went on the publishers website

and found a number of internal med books.

 

I have the Sionneau books, and I have found them very useful clinically. I'm

looking for a more reflective book that looks at the theory underlying

pattern analysis and offers a more concrete demonstration of reasoning from

Sx to Dx. For example, adding an explanation of the channel relationships

with the eye in various aspects of eye disease, or a breakdown of the

various diagnostic eye examinations that have been used historicly. I'm not

even sure if such a thing exists. I don't really want a million disease

categories, rather I'd like a better explanation of the underlying disease

mechanisms and how they relate to theory, and treatment, ideally from a

variety of points of view (different schools of thought). I might be looking

for something a little more scholarly than clinical, or something that

doesn't exist, I'm just not familiar enough with the range of material that

is currently available.

 

If you or anybody else have any suggestions I'd be very interested.

 

Thank you,

 

Par Scott

-

Bob Flaws

@ <%40>

 

Monday, January 22, 2007 12:09 PM

Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

Parr,

 

I'd contact the Eastwind Bookstore in San Francisco and tell them what

you're looking for. They will ship by mail order. However, in my

experience, there is no one best, most complete Chinese nei ke book.

There are, literally, hundreds. Without going to a bookstore and

leafing through several, it's hard to say which one would fit your

bill the best. I have numerous on my shelf, and each one tends to

include diseases that the others do not.

 

If you're talking English language, as yet, nothing beats Philippe

Sionneau's seven volumne series for traditional Chinese nei ke

diseases -- 40-60 diseases per volume. These do contain discussions of

disease causes and mechanisms, one herbal formula per pattern but with

additions and subtractions, and an acu formula.

 

Bob

 

@ <%40>

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese

language reference books.

>

> I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of

pathologies covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy

of. I'd like something that explains the pathology and how the

patterns relate to the pathology, then gives a formula or two and

modifications. If it has acupuncture points as well that's a plus but

not required. If it has classical references that would also be great.

I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

>

> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, especially if you know

where to buy it that can ship to the US.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Par Scott

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jason, I'll see if I can get my hands on them.

Do you have any knowledge of the general quality of the other works in the

orange/yellow book series? I'd be particularly interested in the classical

commentary texts.

 

Par Scott

 

 

 

-

Monday, January 22, 2007 10:43 PM

RE: Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

 

Par,

 

If, as you mention, you are NOT looking for a pure volume of disease titles

and looking for more discussion, with a more limited focus on major

diseases, I would suggest the black and red 3 volume series by renmin

weisheng (ÈËÃñÎÀÉú), called jinre zhongyi neike (½ñÈÕÖÐÒ½ÄÚ¿Æ) (zhongyi

linchuang congshu -ÖÐÒ½ÁÙ´²´ÔÊé) ¨C I think that is correct, they are

unfortunately at the office. IMO, it is a step up, being much more

expansive, than the orange book that Eric mentioned. I recall I.e. that the

first chapter (in one of the books) on nei shang fa re (ÄÚÉË·¢ÈÈ) has 50+

dense pages. Hope that helps.

 

-

 

_____

 

On Behalf Of Par Scott

Monday, January 22, 2007 11:12 AM

Re: Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

Thank you Eric and Bob,

 

Eric, do you have a title for this book? I went on the publishers website

and found a number of internal med books.

 

I have the Sionneau books, and I have found them very useful clinically. I'm

looking for a more reflective book that looks at the theory underlying

pattern analysis and offers a more concrete demonstration of reasoning from

Sx to Dx. For example, adding an explanation of the channel relationships

with the eye in various aspects of eye disease, or a breakdown of the

various diagnostic eye examinations that have been used historicly. I'm not

even sure if such a thing exists. I don't really want a million disease

categories, rather I'd like a better explanation of the underlying disease

mechanisms and how they relate to theory, and treatment, ideally from a

variety of points of view (different schools of thought). I might be looking

for something a little more scholarly than clinical, or something that

doesn't exist, I'm just not familiar enough with the range of material that

is currently available.

 

If you or anybody else have any suggestions I'd be very interested.

 

Thank you,

 

Par Scott

-

Bob Flaws

@ <%40>

Monday, January 22, 2007 12:09 PM

Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

Parr,

 

I'd contact the Eastwind Bookstore in San Francisco and tell them what

you're looking for. They will ship by mail order. However, in my

experience, there is no one best, most complete Chinese nei ke book.

There are, literally, hundreds. Without going to a bookstore and

leafing through several, it's hard to say which one would fit your

bill the best. I have numerous on my shelf, and each one tends to

include diseases that the others do not.

 

If you're talking English language, as yet, nothing beats Philippe

Sionneau's seven volumne series for traditional Chinese nei ke

diseases -- 40-60 diseases per volume. These do contain discussions of

disease causes and mechanisms, one herbal formula per pattern but with

additions and subtractions, and an acu formula.

 

Bob

 

@ <%40>

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese

language reference books.

>

> I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of

pathologies covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy

of. I'd like something that explains the pathology and how the

patterns relate to the pathology, then gives a formula or two and

modifications. If it has acupuncture points as well that's a plus but

not required. If it has classical references that would also be great.

I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

>

> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, especially if you know

where to buy it that can ship to the US.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Par Scott

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Par,

 

 

 

I use the orange books here and there and have about 8-10 of them. The

general quality is decent. Not mind blowing. The classical commentary is

again okay. I find that I regularly need other sources, because there are

many gaps (but what book doesn¡¯t have gaps). For example in the nei jing

book, it has long discussions on a couple of given topics in a paragraph

that contains 10-20+ ideas. Meaning it misses even brief explanations of

many other ideas / phrases. Other nei jing commentaries will have line by

line explanations, with no extensive commentaries. The orange book basically

picks and chooses what it wants to explain. I find both valuable at

different times. It is, though, definitely worth having for a reference. In

general I find you need a minimum of around 4 commentaries to get in the

game.

 

 

 

My understanding is that this ¡°orange¡± series are ¡°textbooks¡± for

graduate level training. Overall I find them very sparse with pattern and

treatment choices and very dense with the number of diseases and discussions

on what they choose to represent. For example, if I remember correctly in

the woman¡¯s disease book, under menopause (which coincidently is discussed

as a bing (disease)), it has ONLY kidney patterns listed. This is one of

Volker¡¯s points. In these textbooks they seem to hit the major choices (how

they pick these I am unsure) and miss very real clinical perspectives.

Clearly in clinical practice quickly one is left scratching their head many

times if just going on such a text. Others have many more possibilities and

forgo discussions.

 

 

 

For example, although Blue Poppy¡¯s Menopause book is kind of light on the

explanations and teaching one how to think, it does point out a multitude of

patterns (And treatments) that are not found in this huge honker orange

Chinese ¡°text¡± book. Bob has done a good job of pulling together different

doctor¡¯s ideas on treating this condition. It is worth reviewing to see the

possibilities that one may not always think of. This is one of the few times

that I would say that an English book covers more than a Chinese one. That

is in the realm of pure treatment options, not discussions and theory.

 

 

 

If I was to give any advice it would be: buy anything you can get your hands

on and enjoy!

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of Par Scott

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:50 AM

 

Re: Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

 

 

Thanks Jason, I'll see if I can get my hands on them.

Do you have any knowledge of the general quality of the other works in the

orange/yellow book series? I'd be particularly interested in the classical

commentary texts.

 

Par Scott

 

-

 

@ <%40>

 

Monday, January 22, 2007 10:43 PM

RE: Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

Par,

 

If, as you mention, you are NOT looking for a pure volume of disease titles

and looking for more discussion, with a more limited focus on major

diseases, I would suggest the black and red 3 volume series by renmin

weisheng (ÈËÃñÎÀÉú), called jinre zhongyi neike (½ñÈÕÖÐÒ½ÄÚ¿Æ) (zhongyi

linchuang congshu -ÖÐÒ½ÁÙ´²´ÔÊé) ¨C I think that is correct, they are

unfortunately at the office. IMO, it is a step up, being much more

expansive, than the orange book that Eric mentioned. I recall I.e. that the

first chapter (in one of the books) on nei shang fa re (ÄÚÉË·¢ÈÈ) has 50+

dense pages. Hope that helps.

 

-

 

_____

 

@ <%40>

 

[@ <%40>

] On Behalf Of Par Scott

Monday, January 22, 2007 11:12 AM

@ <%40>

 

Re: Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

Thank you Eric and Bob,

 

Eric, do you have a title for this book? I went on the publishers website

and found a number of internal med books.

 

I have the Sionneau books, and I have found them very useful clinically. I'm

looking for a more reflective book that looks at the theory underlying

pattern analysis and offers a more concrete demonstration of reasoning from

Sx to Dx. For example, adding an explanation of the channel relationships

with the eye in various aspects of eye disease, or a breakdown of the

various diagnostic eye examinations that have been used historicly. I'm not

even sure if such a thing exists. I don't really want a million disease

categories, rather I'd like a better explanation of the underlying disease

mechanisms and how they relate to theory, and treatment, ideally from a

variety of points of view (different schools of thought). I might be looking

for something a little more scholarly than clinical, or something that

doesn't exist, I'm just not familiar enough with the range of material that

is currently available.

 

If you or anybody else have any suggestions I'd be very interested.

 

Thank you,

 

Par Scott

-

Bob Flaws

@ <%40>

 

Monday, January 22, 2007 12:09 PM

Re: Most comprehensive Internal Medicine book?

 

Parr,

 

I'd contact the Eastwind Bookstore in San Francisco and tell them what

you're looking for. They will ship by mail order. However, in my

experience, there is no one best, most complete Chinese nei ke book.

There are, literally, hundreds. Without going to a bookstore and

leafing through several, it's hard to say which one would fit your

bill the best. I have numerous on my shelf, and each one tends to

include diseases that the others do not.

 

If you're talking English language, as yet, nothing beats Philippe

Sionneau's seven volumne series for traditional Chinese nei ke

diseases -- 40-60 diseases per volume. These do contain discussions of

disease causes and mechanisms, one herbal formula per pattern but with

additions and subtractions, and an acu formula.

 

Bob

 

@ <%40>

, " Par Scott " <parufus

wrote:

>

> To anyone with a working knowledge of what's out there in Chinese

language reference books.

>

> I'm looking for the most comprehensive (in terms of the variety of

pathologies covered) internal medicine reference book I can get a copy

of. I'd like something that explains the pathology and how the

patterns relate to the pathology, then gives a formula or two and

modifications. If it has acupuncture points as well that's a plus but

not required. If it has classical references that would also be great.

I guess I'm looking for an updated Jing yue quan shu.

>

> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, especially if you know

where to buy it that can ship to the US.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Par Scott

>

>

>

>