Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 For those on the list more experienced than I, how much weight do you give the BBT in arriving at a diagnosis for an infertility patient? Does it trump the tongue and pulse? Or is it just another sign? The reason I ask is because I have a patient whose BBT leads me in a different direction from her tongue, pulse, and other s/sx. I've been treating her based on her BBT, with little success: Her temp is low throughout the cycle, but yang tonics, even balenced ones, caused her tongue to peel and she developed an eye twitch. However, her other s/sx point more to spleen qi vacuity, some damp accumulation, and liver qi constraint. Her only other sign of yang vacuity aside from the BBT is cold feet. I think she's pretty reliable in terms of charting and knows how to do it correctly, so that's not the issue. My thought is that since traditional formulas developed long before the thermometer I should try treating her for a while without considering the BBT and just see what happens. Any thoughts or advice. I'd be happy to provide more details of the case, but I don't have her chart with me at the moment. Thanks, Sarah Sarah E. Rivkin, MS, LAc, Dipl. OM www.slopeacupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 The BBT chart is useful over the entire month and ideally more than a few months. You've found that Yang Xu is perhaps not the answer here. The cold feet is usually more a sign of constraint than Yang Xu in my experience. Perhaps constraint is also causing the overall low temperature. (I don't know what other practitioners would say to that. It's just a thought.) The reaction to a well contructed herb formula trumps everything in my opinion. I generally find that two herb formulas a month is adaquate unless there are major signs just before or after the period. Usually though I write an overall formula for the entire month. I'm not one of those who has a new formula every week. doug , " Sarah Rivkin " <saydit wrote: > > For those on the list more experienced than I, how much weight do you > give the BBT in arriving at a diagnosis for an infertility patient? > Does it trump the tongue and pulse? Or is it just another sign? > > The reason I ask is because I have a patient whose BBT leads me in a > different direction from her tongue, pulse, and other s/sx. I've been > treating her based on her BBT, with little success: Her temp is low > throughout the cycle, but yang tonics, even balenced ones, caused her > tongue to peel and she developed an eye twitch. > > However, her other s/sx point more to spleen qi vacuity, some damp > accumulation, and liver qi constraint. Her only other sign of yang > vacuity aside from the BBT is cold feet. > > I think she's pretty reliable in terms of charting and knows how to do > it correctly, so that's not the issue. > > My thought is that since traditional formulas developed long before > the thermometer I should try treating her for a while without > considering the BBT and just see what happens. > > Any thoughts or advice. I'd be happy to provide more details of the > case, but I don't have her chart with me at the moment. > > Thanks, > > Sarah > > Sarah E. Rivkin, MS, LAc, Dipl. OM > www.slopeacupuncture.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hi Sarah, This is a good question. I use BBT with many of my fertility patients as well as others - pcos, amenorrhea, irregular menses - any patient for whom it can be useful. Basically I do not use BBT as a definitive diagnostic sign. My method for treating fertility is to first ask myself what I would do for the patient if I didn't have the BBT information and if I was not attempting to help fertility. This gives me the most important base diagnosis. From that I see how I can explain the BBT findings. I never use the BBT by itself to determine treatment but only in the context of the main diagnosis. So, for your patient, how can you explain the low BBT with your diagnosis? Spleen Qi vacuity with damp can easily cause the BBT to be low. This can also help explain her cold feet as can the Liver constraint. Stick with as your base and use the BBT as a support. Besides the diagnosis of the disease factor - in this case Spleen Qi vacuity with damp and liver Qi constraint - I also direct my treatment toward main symptoms if there are any. Again, for the most part, I ignore the fertility part. So, even if it is headaches or insomnia or poor appetite or cold feet - and especially if it is menstrual irregularity - I direct the treatment more toward this than any particular " fertility protocol " . This method has greatly improved my results. I think this is because fertility is the natural outcome of a balanced Qi dynamic. These symptoms point to the imbalance of the pathological dynamic. Hope this helps, Sharon > For those on the list more experienced than I, how much weight do you > give the BBT in arriving at a diagnosis for an infertility patient? > Does it trump the tongue and pulse? Or is it just another sign? > > The reason I ask is because I have a patient whose BBT leads me in a > different direction from her tongue, pulse, and other s/sx. I've been > treating her based on her BBT, with little success: Her temp is low > throughout the cycle, but yang tonics, even balenced ones, caused her > tongue to peel and she developed an eye twitch. > > However, her other s/sx point more to spleen qi vacuity, some damp > accumulation, and liver qi constraint. Her only other sign of yang > vacuity aside from the BBT is cold feet. > > I think she's pretty reliable in terms of charting and knows how to do > it correctly, so that's not the issue. > > My thought is that since traditional formulas developed long before > the thermometer I should try treating her for a while without > considering the BBT and just see what happens. > > Any thoughts or advice. I'd be happy to provide more details of the > case, but I don't have her chart with me at the moment. > > Thanks, > > Sarah Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Sharon & Doug, Thanks so much for your replies. You confirmed where I was headed in my thinking--but without a lot of clinical experience I didn't quite have the confidence to go there on my own. Best wishes, Sarah , sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote: > > > > Hi Sarah, > > This is a good question. > > I use BBT with many of my fertility patients as well as others - > pcos, amenorrhea, irregular menses - any patient for whom it can be > useful. > > Basically I do not use BBT as a definitive diagnostic sign. My > method for treating fertility is to first ask myself what I would do > for the patient if I didn't have the BBT information and if I was not > attempting to help fertility. This gives me the most important base > diagnosis. From that I see how I can explain the BBT findings. I > never use the BBT by itself to determine treatment but only in the > context of the main diagnosis. So, for your patient, how can you > explain the low BBT with your diagnosis? Spleen Qi vacuity with damp > can easily cause the BBT to be low. This can also help explain her > cold feet as can the Liver constraint. Stick with > as your base and use the BBT as a support. > > Besides the diagnosis of the disease factor - in this case Spleen Qi > vacuity with damp and liver Qi constraint - I also direct my > treatment toward main symptoms if there are any. Again, for the most > part, I ignore the fertility part. So, even if it is headaches or > insomnia or poor appetite or cold feet - and especially if it is > menstrual irregularity - I direct the treatment more toward this than > any particular " fertility protocol " . This method has greatly > improved my results. I think this is because fertility is the > natural outcome of a balanced Qi dynamic. These symptoms point to > the imbalance of the pathological dynamic. > > Hope this helps, > > Sharon > > > > For those on the list more experienced than I, how much weight do you > > give the BBT in arriving at a diagnosis for an infertility patient? > > Does it trump the tongue and pulse? Or is it just another sign? > > > > The reason I ask is because I have a patient whose BBT leads me in a > > different direction from her tongue, pulse, and other s/sx. I've been > > treating her based on her BBT, with little success: Her temp is low > > throughout the cycle, but yang tonics, even balenced ones, caused her > > tongue to peel and she developed an eye twitch. > > > > However, her other s/sx point more to spleen qi vacuity, some damp > > accumulation, and liver qi constraint. Her only other sign of yang > > vacuity aside from the BBT is cold feet. > > > > I think she's pretty reliable in terms of charting and knows how to do > > it correctly, so that's not the issue. > > > > My thought is that since traditional formulas developed long before > > the thermometer I should try treating her for a while without > > considering the BBT and just see what happens. > > > > Any thoughts or advice. I'd be happy to provide more details of the > > case, but I don't have her chart with me at the moment. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sarah > > Sharon Weizenbaum > 86 Henry Street > Amherst, MA 01002 > 413-549-4021 > sweiz > www.whitepinehealingarts.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.