Chinese Herb & Pharmaceutical Contraindications Data

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

I am a licensed acupuncturist with an M.S.O.M. Do any databases,

books, journals, etc. exist which can help persons practicing with

TCM herbal products determine counteractions between Chinese herbs

and pharmaceuticals? I can understand this data not being available

due to lack of research dollars which I presume would have to

originate from the TCM arena, grants, schools, etc. I cannot

understand though why TCM practitioners have not already formed an

interactive database amongst themselves listing Chinese

herbs/pharmaceutical counteractions from each practitioner's own

experiences. I would think that a database of this type could easily

be achieved through development and cooperation through various state

and national acupuncture associations.

The information might not be derived from formal research/controlled

studies, but it would seem to help immensely in assisting TCM

practitioners in making safer, more intelligent decisions in

recommending Chinese herbal products.

 

Thank you for any views/replys.

 

Mike Eidson, LAc.

[Guest guest]

Mike, I think a data base would be a good idea although I think a more

moderately sized chart might suffice. One could always get this book

by our own CHA member Bob Flaws: Herb Toxicities and Drug Interactions

by Fred Jennes with Bob Flaws $44.96 available through Bluepoppy.com

or other retailers of quality CM books.

 

Bob also has a one day, comprehensive CEU class on the same through

Blue Poppy.

Herb Toxicity and Drug-Herb Interactions with

 

With Bob Flaws

In this one-day class, Bob covers a wide variety of information on

safety issues affecting the prescription of Chinese herbal medicinals.

He introduces the American Herbal Products Association (AHPA) Herb

Classification System, discusses various possible side effects and

adverse reactions that are possible with Chinese herbal medicinals,

herb-induces hepatitis and kidney failure, the aristolochic acid

issue, contaminants in patent medicines, herb-drug interaction

problems, and the best practices for you to use Chinese herbal

medicine safely.

 

In , " stickerweed " <mdeidson wrote:

>

> Hi All,

>

> I am a licensed acupuncturist with an M.S.O.M. Do any databases,

> books, journals, etc. exist which can help persons practicing with

> TCM herbal products determine counteractions between Chinese herbs

> and pharmaceuticals? I can understand this data not being available

> due to lack of research dollars which I presume would have to

> originate from the TCM arena, grants, schools, etc. I cannot

> understand though why TCM practitioners have not already formed an

> interactive database amongst themselves listing Chinese

> herbs/pharmaceutical counteractions from each practitioner's own

> experiences. I would think that a database of this type could easily

> be achieved through development and cooperation through various state

> and national acupuncture associations.

> The information might not be derived from formal research/controlled

> studies, but it would seem to help immensely in assisting TCM

> practitioners in making safer, more intelligent decisions in

> recommending Chinese herbal products.

>

> Thank you for any views/replys.

>

> Mike Eidson, LAc.

>

[Guest guest]

In addition, when encouraging MDs not to write off herbs completely, I point

them to Memorial Sloan-Ketterine Cancer Center (one of the 3 leading cancer

research organizations in U.S.) web site:

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm

 

Mike L.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

You can check for herb drug interaction on Pub Med by entering the

pharmaceutical your patient is taking and the phrase " herb drug

interaction. " The documented interactions should appear in the search.

You can read an article written by Subhuti at itmonline.org about

herb-drug interactions for free.

 

-Steve

 

On Apr 7, 2007, at 7:27 PM, stickerweed wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I am a licensed acupuncturist with an M.S.O.M. Do any databases,

> books, journals, etc. exist which can help persons practicing with

> TCM herbal products determine counteractions between Chinese herbs

> and pharmaceuticals? I can understand this data not being available

> due to lack of research dollars which I presume would have to

> originate from the TCM arena, grants, schools, etc. I cannot

> understand though why TCM practitioners have not already formed an

> interactive database amongst themselves listing Chinese

> herbs/pharmaceutical counteractions from each practitioner's own

> experiences. I would think that a database of this type could easily

> be achieved through development and cooperation through various state

> and national acupuncture associations.

> The information might not be derived from formal research/controlled

> studies, but it would seem to help immensely in assisting TCM

> practitioners in making safer, more intelligent decisions in

> recommending Chinese herbal products.

>

> Thank you for any views/replys.

>

> Mike Eidson, LAc.

>

>

Stephen Bonzak, L.Ac., Dipl. C.H.

sbonzak

773-470-6994

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The other site I use is through the University of Maryland (sorry I

have it bookmarked on another computer, but I can send to the list, if

of interest) or I've used

http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/druginterchecker?src=google

 

--Sarah

 

 

Sarah E. Rivkin, MS, LAc, Dipl. OM

www.slopeacupuncture.com

[Guest guest]

I would also refer you to the venerable Subhuti Dharmananda and his

article CHECKING FOR POSSIBLE HERB-DRUG INTERACTIONS

 

 

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/herbdrug2.htm

 

As always, great writing... just a few samples below...

 

The issue of herb-drug interactions looms large over the practice of

herbal medicine. Up to now there have been very few incidents recorded

of herb-drug interactions, but since the first such reports emerged a

decade ago, a concern has been raised: that we know so little about

herbs and their potential for interaction with drugs that these

incidents could be just the " tip of the iceberg. "

 

 

References to what the herbs " may " do when combined with certain drug

groups, (e.g., valerian may increase the effects of certain

anti-seizure medications or prolong the effects of anesthetic agents)

often refer to pharmacology studies rather than actual clinical

experience.

[Guest guest]

This is great information, Sarah, thank you. I would be interested in

the Maryland site also.

[Guest guest]

John Chen does a very good one-day CEU class on herb drug interactions. He

does them all over the country.

 

- Bill

.............................................

Bill Schoenbart, L.Ac.

P.O. Box 8099

Santa Cruz, CA 95061

 

office phone: 831-335-3165

email: plantmed

.............................................

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i second that recommendation. john chen's class is excellent. lynn

 

[plantmed2] wrote:

John Chen does a very good one-day CEU class on herb drug interactions. He

does them all over the country.

 

- Bill

.............................................

Bill Schoenbart, L.Ac.

P.O. Box 8099

Santa Cruz, CA 95061

 

office phone: 831-335-3165

email: plantmed

.............................................

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Not the Sloan Kettering site! It is full of misinformation, suggests all

kinds of potential reactions that are pharmacokinetically impossible and

attributes normal drug side effects to the herbs they were taken with. It also

poorly differentiates between constituents and whole herbs or times when in

vitro contact has very little to do with in vivo situations.

 

Go with Bob Flaws' or Francis Brinker's books or something that is done by

practitioners.

 

As for Medline, it can have useful information, but the summaries tend to

increase bad information because of the lack of botanical identification and

plain bad science being reported. I highly suggest reading Jonathan Treasure's

article _http://www.herbological.com/images/downloads/HH2.pdf_

(http://www.herbological.com/images/downloads/HH2.pdf)

 

And there is a German study that found 80% of herb-drug interactions

happened with four classes of pharmaceuticals:

 

 

PHARMACOKINETIC HERB-DRUG INTERACTIONS: Are Preventive Screenings Necessary

and Appropriate. Planta Medica 2004:70:784-791

 

 

Butterweck V, Derendorf H, Gaus W, Nahrstedt A, Schulz V, Unger M.

 

Pharmacokinetic interactions often occur as a result of activity changes of

drug-metabolizing and transporting proteins, especially cytochrome P450 (CYP)

isoenzymes and P-glycoprotein (P-gp). The activity of these enzymes and drug

transporters can be enhanced or inhibited by synthetic drugs as well as by

natural products. Since the number of herb-drug interactions has increased in

recent years, systematic in vitro screenings and more clinical studies to

identify such interactions were proposed for herbal medicinal products.

However,

previous results regarding this issue are not only contradictory but also of

less predictability. One reason for the discrepancies could be the lack of

validation of the recommended in vitro tests. Furthermore, it has to be

considered that pharmacokinetic drug interactions are not only mediated by

herbal

medicines but also by several foods, beverages and life-style products. Since

herbal medicines are considered to have a broad therapeutic range, a

preventive risk assessment for pharmacokinetic drug interactions should first

be

realized for synthetic drugs with a narrow therapeutic index. Efforts to

identify all possible interactions will lead to limitless investigations and to

inconsistent decisions.

 

 

Karen S. Vaughan, L.Ac., MSTOM

Licensed Acupuncturist, and Herbalist

Creationsgarden1

253 Garfield Place

Brooklyn, NY 11215

 

(718) 622-6755

 

 

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks all, for the books and site referrals regarding my question on Chinese

Herb & Pharmaceutical Contraindications.

 

Mike Eidson