Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Hi all, I have been reading with great interest, the thread on one needle tech. and " new age- iness " in CM. IMO, acupuncture is a quantum process. Recent (past 15 - 20 years or so) evolution of quantum theory has revealed (explored?) an empirical, scientific, viewpoint about the fundamental nature of reality. This having to do with concepts like non-local action, Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle, Schroendingers Cat thought experiment, zero point energy, superposition of particle - wave entities and the like. These " modern " theories are just now beginning to reveal the fact that meta-physical concepts that are thousands of years old are, indeed, rooted in reality. I will try to find the time:) to give a more complete overview of some of these concepts, but the gist is this: All things are inter-connected, the very act of observing something affects the thing being observed and causes it to collapse from a superposed state to a quantifiable state. Conciousness is a quantum process. Ergo... even thinking about an acupuncture point affects it at some level. A little time spent on researching quantum theory will be time well spent. Here are a couple of places to start. www.quantumconsciousness.org/interviews/alternative.html ....and this is a very plausible " western " explanation of what Qi is. Stuart Hameroff wrote this way back and I am surprised it hasn't really survived for current discussion in todays acu-world...maybe this will revive it and lead to a new and/or deeper understanding (at least from an empirical perspective) of what Qi is... at any rate, it is very interesting. www.quantumconsciousness.org/documents/chi_hameroff_000.pdf You may also want to watch the PBS Nova special The Elegant Universe you can view it online... www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/int_phys.html .... or you can rent a copy of " What the Bleep " at your local video store. Both are very interesting. All of this is pertinent to the current thread regarding one needle treatments, etc. I have seen the Dr. Tan " show " and he is very impressive. I've tried it and it works quite well with a little practice. Of course, I do practice Qi Gong;) If you really want get into the quantum fray, join the forum at... www.toequest.com/ You will find quite a dialogue... much of it between the Empiricists and the Meta- physisists. I have tried to bridge the two camps, but you know how those darned reductionists can be;) Warm regards, dr.w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Sorry, doc, but i really object, or should I say, have no interest in these explanations. I prefer to view the CM paradigm as complete and having no need of justification. Just to be nit-picking consider your sentence: " These " modern " theories are just now beginning to reveal the fact that meta-physical concepts that are thousands of years old are, indeed, rooted in reality. " I know that quoting is perhaps unfair but again, I consider CM reality enough. My interest in CM works for me because it expresses a world-body view that is more consistent with my own, not because it makes sense in the Western terms. " What the Bleep " and others represent a type of patronizing view of others cultures. The one needle approach isn't new-age, as has been astutely pointed out, is actually a more classical method. I just find that patients come in for more than just the disease but need the time to relax. Ironically, I find more needles help with this. Sorry, to be harsh, but I'll not censure my thoughts (this time) in order to get the point across. Doug , " waldropeww " <dr.w.w.waldrope wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have been reading with great interest, the thread on one needle tech. and " new age- > iness " in CM. > IMO, acupuncture is a quantum process. Recent (past 15 - 20 years or so) evolution of > quantum theory has revealed (explored?) an empirical, scientific, viewpoint about the > fundamental nature of reality. This having to do with concepts like non-local action, > Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle, Schroendingers Cat thought experiment, zero point > energy, superposition of particle - wave entities and the like. These " modern " theories are > just now beginning to reveal the fact that meta-physical concepts that are thousands of > years old are, indeed, rooted in reality. > I will try to find the time:) to give a more complete overview of some of these concepts, > but the gist is this: > All things are inter-connected, the very act of observing something affects the thing being > observed and causes it to collapse from a superposed state to a quantifiable state. > Conciousness is a quantum process. Ergo... even thinking about an acupuncture point > affects it at some level. > > A little time spent on researching quantum theory will be time well spent. Here are a > couple of places to start. > > www.quantumconsciousness.org/interviews/alternative.html > > ...and this is a very plausible " western " explanation of what Qi is. Stuart Hameroff wrote > this way back and I am surprised it hasn't really survived for current discussion in todays > acu-world...maybe this will revive it and lead to a new and/or deeper understanding (at > least from an empirical perspective) of what Qi is... at any rate, it is very interesting. > > www.quantumconsciousness.org/documents/chi_hameroff_000.pdf > > You may also want to watch the PBS Nova special The Elegant Universe you can view it > online... > > www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/int_phys.html > > ... or you can rent a copy of " What the Bleep " at your local video store. Both are very > interesting. > > All of this is pertinent to the current thread regarding one needle treatments, etc. I have > seen the Dr. Tan " show " and he is very impressive. I've tried it and it works quite well with > a little practice. Of course, I do practice Qi Gong;) > > If you really want get into the quantum fray, join the forum at... > > www.toequest.com/ > > You will find quite a dialogue... much of it between the Empiricists and the Meta- > physisists. I have tried to bridge the two camps, but you know how those darned > reductionists can be;) > > Warm regards, > dr.w > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Doug, I wasn't suggesting that CM " NEEDED " to be explained in western terms. Nor was I suggesting that one needle technique is " new age " . I just think that the application of quantum theory to CM is interesting and that these ideas were relevant to the general dicussion of " new agey stuff " being overlaid on CM. I personaly agree that CM needs no explanation outside of itself. Sorry if I jostled your sensibilities. yours, dr.w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 I'll second that. By the way, since I brought up the one-needle acupuncture example originally, I should clarify my point by saying that I understand that there are several acupuncturists who use a one needle method. It is possible with great skill that a lot of good can be done with such treatment, although it seems a bit limiting to me. Sometimes a patient may need one needle, sometimes ten. Sometimes strong stimulus, sometimes, light and subtle. One technique is just that, one technique. My problem is when claims are made about the spiritual state of the patient being totally transformed again and again with this type of treatment, or what the practitioner means by 'spiritual acupuncture'. By the way, I enjoyed " What the Bleep " very much. . . On May 23, 2007, at 10:08 AM, wrote: > Sorry, doc, but i really object, or should I say, have no interest in > these explanations. I prefer to view the CM paradigm as complete and > having no need of justification. > > Just to be nit-picking consider your sentence: > " These " modern " theories are just now beginning to reveal the fact > that meta-physical concepts that are thousands of years old are, > indeed, rooted in reality. " > > I know that quoting is perhaps unfair but again, I consider CM reality > enough. My interest in CM works for me because it expresses a > world-body view that is more consistent with my own, not because it > makes sense in the Western terms. " What the Bleep " and others > represent a type of patronizing view of others cultures. > > The one needle approach isn't new-age, as has been astutely pointed > out, is actually a more classical method. I just find that patients > come in for more than just the disease but need the time to relax. > Ironically, I find more needles help with this. > > Sorry, to be harsh, but I'll not censure my thoughts (this time) in > order to get the point across. > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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