Guest guest Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Hi All, My usual acupuncture (AP) session time varies: (a) between species, (b) between sessions and © depending on nature of presenting S & Ss and the response. (a) HORSES respond VERY fast to AP. Most of my horse AP is for sports injury (drop in athletic performance, myofascial pain, muscle spasm, " guarding " , etc. In these cases, needle retention time in a given point usually is 10 seconds to 2 minutes. If point-pressure sensitivity does not disappear within 2 minutes, I add further points until no points remain sensitive to pressure. My record for fastest session time averaged circa 13 minutes (7 horses diagnosed and treated in less than 90 minutes in one stable). More typically, however, my session time in horses is circa 10-20 minutes. DOGS: My typical session time in dogs (mainly for spinal / musculo-skeletal pain, performance problems, geriatric debility and some hormonal problems) is circa 30 minutes, including examination & AP Tx. One long-term client (coming for >25 years) has champion performance dogs that win at national and international shows. She brings 3 dogs each time for regular pre-competition " tune-ups " . She brings her husband sometimes. On a few occasions, I have examined and treated the 3 dogs + the owner (tension / hormonal problems / stress problems) + her husband (golfer's knee, shoulder & back problems & LV Qi Stag (heavy drinker)) in circa 1 hour. HUMANS: Typical session time (including examination & needle retention time) is 15-30 minutes. I usually retain needles for circa 10 minutes in dogs & people. In chronic problems, I usually retain needle for circa 20 minutes. In acute human cases (say acute (overnight) torticollis or lumbago), needling time is usually 30 seconds to 5 minutes, followed by quick (2-minute) massage with MOOV (Paras Pharmaceuticals, India) or Tiger Balm (?Thailand). (b) SESSION to SESSION differences: First visit usually takes longest time (gathering history, initial exam, etc). In humans, it usually is 20-40 minutes, sometimes more. © Depending on nature of presenting S & Ss and the response: complex cases (usually in humans) take longer to Dx & Tx than single-symptom cases. Chronic problems usually get longer session ( & needle retention) times. I would rarely spend >1 hour with any patient. On rare occasions when I used electro-acupuncture (in myself / friends) as an alternative to local or general anaesthetic for dental fillings / extractions, I usually stimulated for 20-40 minutes before start of procedure. Patient MUST pass pin-prick and deeper stab / tooth-rocking test before dental procedure can begin. Electro-stimulation continued at maximum tolerance through the procedure until the dentist was finished. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi Phil and eveyone, What kind of training is required before an acupuncturist can (legally) treat horses? Does this vary according to location? Does one need to be a veterinarian? < wrote: Hi All, My usual acupuncture (AP) session time varies: (a) between species, (b) between sessions and © depending on nature of presenting S & Ss and the response. (a) HORSES respond VERY fast to AP. Most of my horse AP is for sports injury (drop in athletic performance, myofascial pain, muscle spasm, " guarding " , etc. In these cases, needle retention time in a given point usually is 10 seconds to 2 minutes. If point-pressure sensitivity does not disappear within 2 minutes, I add further points until no points remain sensitive to pressure. My record for fastest session time averaged circa 13 minutes (7 horses diagnosed and treated in less than 90 minutes in one stable). More typically, however, my session time in horses is circa 10-20 minutes. DOGS: My typical session time in dogs (mainly for spinal / musculo-skeletal pain, performance problems, geriatric debility and some hormonal problems) is circa 30 minutes, including examination & AP Tx. One long-term client (coming for >25 years) has champion performance dogs that win at national and international shows. She brings 3 dogs each time for regular pre-competition " tune-ups " . She brings her husband sometimes. On a few occasions, I have examined and treated the 3 dogs + the owner (tension / hormonal problems / stress problems) + her husband (golfer's knee, shoulder & back problems & LV Qi Stag (heavy drinker)) in circa 1 hour. HUMANS: Typical session time (including examination & needle retention time) is 15-30 minutes. I usually retain needles for circa 10 minutes in dogs & people. In chronic problems, I usually retain needle for circa 20 minutes. In acute human cases (say acute (overnight) torticollis or lumbago), needling time is usually 30 seconds to 5 minutes, followed by quick (2-minute) massage with MOOV (Paras Pharmaceuticals, India) or Tiger Balm (?Thailand). (b) SESSION to SESSION differences: First visit usually takes longest time (gathering history, initial exam, etc). In humans, it usually is 20-40 minutes, sometimes more. © Depending on nature of presenting S & Ss and the response: complex cases (usually in humans) take longer to Dx & Tx than single-symptom cases. Chronic problems usually get longer session ( & needle retention) times. I would rarely spend >1 hour with any patient. On rare occasions when I used electro-acupuncture (in myself / friends) as an alternative to local or general anaesthetic for dental fillings / extractions, I usually stimulated for 20-40 minutes before start of procedure. Patient MUST pass pin-prick and deeper stab / tooth-rocking test before dental procedure can begin. Electro-stimulation continued at maximum tolerance through the procedure until the dentist was finished. Best regards, Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 Hi Gina et al, What do you need all that time for? All you need is three minutes and three needles and 69% of patients get 30% reduction in pain ... according to a 2002 article in Acupuncture Medicine entitled " An Audit of Acupuncture on Musculoskeletal Pain in Primary Health Care. see the following link: http://www.acupunctureinmedicine.org.uk/servearticle.php?artid=427 Although I do use motor point " dry needling " techinque from time to time I want to go on record as not being an advocate of shorter treatment time. The reason being is that I practice holistic medicine that means body, mind and spirit. I like to be able to interact with the patient as part of the healing process and that takes time. Here is an analogy, if a plant has yellowing leaves you can put all the water on the leaves you want and it isn't going to make any difference at all unless you water the roots. If I injured my hand and it didn't hurt and I went to pick something up I could pull my hand off ... symptoms are our friends they tell us something in our life is out of balance. 25-minutes per side (front & back) allows the patient an opportunity to explore their healing journey. What factors in their life are contributing to their condition? If someone has a cold and they are standing in the rain the first thing we do is get them to come in out of the rain. Similiarly if their are mental-emotional stressors in a patient's life that are contributing to the cause & exacerbation of their condition and it is subconscious, then having that time on the table is important in helping the patient to become aware of their relationship to their stressors. Why is this condition happening to them at this time and how is this influencing their path in life, especially if this is the root of their condition. Action reaction if the health condition is the reaction then their has to be an underlying energetic predisposition action that preceeds this condition and many times this offers an opportunity to glance inside ones self and see what insights can be gained. After all healing is a journey, the patient needs to be present on the healing path, its not just a destination. The superior physician treats diseases before they manifest. If we remove the physical physical condition and the underlying mental-emotional or spiritual component still exists and isn't resolved, then it is likely that it will manifest in another reoccurence or another health condition. Action - Reaction. Although this can be good for business with repeat customers, is this really the way you want to practice. I know I don't. Personally given a choice I would prefer an hour on the table as opposed to the stab 'em and grab 'em off the table ... What is your end product? I want a patient who has completed this leg of their healing journey, having completed their course of treatments, they kept their appoints in a timely manner and took their herbs, they are fully recovered & completely satisfied, paid up in full, and they are giving me two referrals per week. Who is more likely to do that, someone who was on your table for 10-minutes or someone who you spent an hour that helped them to really change their life? What ever decision you make it will be the right one for you. Good journey, Steve < wrote: Hi Phil and eveyone, What kind of training is required before an acupuncturist can (legally) treat horses? Does this vary according to location? Does one need to be a veterinarian? < wrote: Hi All, My usual acupuncture (AP) session time varies: (a) between species, (b) between sessions and © depending on nature of presenting S & Ss and the response. (a) HORSES respond VERY fast to AP. Most of my horse AP is for sports injury (drop in athletic performance, myofascial pain, muscle spasm, " guarding " , etc. In these cases, needle retention time in a given point usually is 10 seconds to 2 minutes. If point-pressure sensitivity does not disappear within 2 minutes, I add further points until no points remain sensitive to pressure. My record for fastest session time averaged circa 13 minutes (7 horses diagnosed and treated in less than 90 minutes in one stable). More typically, however, my session time in horses is circa 10-20 minutes. DOGS: My typical session time in dogs (mainly for spinal / musculo-skeletal pain, performance problems, geriatric debility and some hormonal problems) is circa 30 minutes, including examination & AP Tx. One long-term client (coming for >25 years) has champion performance dogs that win at national and international shows. She brings 3 dogs each time for regular pre-competition " tune-ups " . She brings her husband sometimes. On a few occasions, I have examined and treated the 3 dogs + the owner (tension / hormonal problems / stress problems) + her husband (golfer's knee, shoulder & back problems & LV Qi Stag (heavy drinker)) in circa 1 hour. HUMANS: Typical session time (including examination & needle retention time) is 15-30 minutes. I usually retain needles for circa 10 minutes in dogs & people. In chronic problems, I usually retain needle for circa 20 minutes. In acute human cases (say acute (overnight) torticollis or lumbago), needling time is usually 30 seconds to 5 minutes, followed by quick (2-minute) massage with MOOV (Paras Pharmaceuticals, India) or Tiger Balm (?Thailand). (b) SESSION to SESSION differences: First visit usually takes longest time (gathering history, initial exam, etc). In humans, it usually is 20-40 minutes, sometimes more. © Depending on nature of presenting S & Ss and the response: complex cases (usually in humans) take longer to Dx & Tx than single-symptom cases. Chronic problems usually get longer session ( & needle retention) times. I would rarely spend >1 hour with any patient. On rare occasions when I used electro-acupuncture (in myself / friends) as an alternative to local or general anaesthetic for dental fillings / extractions, I usually stimulated for 20-40 minutes before start of procedure. Patient MUST pass pin-prick and deeper stab / tooth-rocking test before dental procedure can begin. Electro-stimulation continued at maximum tolerance through the procedure until the dentist was finished. Best regards, Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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