The Pain relieving agenda of Western Biomedicine

[Guest guest]

Dear Doug, Bill and all,

 

Read the response below of a former hospice nurse from a different list. She

confirms exactly what I have suspected: Western medicine's primary task in

cases beyond its ability to resolve is pain control.

 

" Hi Yehuda,

That's the protocol in Hospice Care, in the name of " to assist the pt &

family for a peaceful passing "

Pts are given heavy doses of narc, usually morphine, to induce coma, then

death.

It takes 24-48hrs to work. Yes, the pt die in that time frame.

I'm an RN, worked for Hospice few months. Quit after examining my moral

issues. "

 

Shocking, no?

 

I'll never forget, that a few years ago, when seeing a neurologist at UCLA,

seeing her wearing a button (like the no-smoking butttons) with the word " PAIN "

and a line through it. In other words, pain must be SUPPRESSED at all costs!

When they ultimately give up, their agenda calls for heroic doses of analgesics

which means euthanasia. They may deny it, it may not be politically correct to

admit it, but that IS their protocol. Shades of " Dr. Death " , the infamous Jack

Kevorkian. I feel we must do something! Our medicine and other related and

complementary therapies are able to ameliorate pain without side effects. At

the very least, dialogue must be initiated with the medical community to have

them consider the benefit of alternatives to heroic dosages of strong analgesics

used alone which DO kill. Just like " goldilocks " a new protocol needs to be

developed to offer patients in unrelenting pain, relief that can be achieved

using small doses of analgesics which

are " just right " , together with acupuncture, herbs and other modalities. Not

only will the patient suffer less, but more importantly, this will give us the

time to make a difference, to affect a change and to give our medicine a chance

to work.

 

I am just a little guy. I am a relatively new practitioner and an not well

connected. Some of you do work with oncologists regularly and others of you do

work in lobbying and legislative reform.

 

Do you want to effect a change? Or are there other, bigger issues that YOU

consider priorities such as medicare or insurance reform? Personally, if you

want to involve me in this process, I will gladly make myself available, but who

am I?

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER

 

 

 

 

wrote:

I don't doubt that there may be something to the opiate overdoses but

I have two other tough alternatives. I'm wondering if they were doing

so well just a day before if the family members weren't experiencing

the patient's false Shen. I've seen this happen a day or two before

passing away. I think it's not impossible that you have made the

patients comfortable enough to pass away.

 

, " bill_schoenbart "

<plantmed2 wrote:

>

> That's a tough one. Of course, high doses of opiates can kill

> people. Junkies die every day from opiate overdoses. On the other

> hand, painkillers can be very helpful to somebody in the late stages

> of cancer. Once the cancer gets into the bones, it can be very

> difficult to treat the pain with acupuncture alone. Painkillers plus

> acupuncture actually works. This is jus my limited experience, of

> course.

>

> - Bill

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car Finder

tool.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda, you are probably right, sorry to imply otherwise.

doug

 

 

,

wrote:

>

> Dear Doug, Bill and all,

>

> Read the response below of a former hospice nurse from a different list.

She confirms

exactly what I have suspected: Western medicine's primary task in cases beyond

its

ability to resolve is pain control.

>

> " Hi Yehuda,

> That's the protocol in Hospice Care, in the name of " to assist the pt &

> family for a peaceful passing "

> Pts are given heavy doses of narc, usually morphine, to induce coma, then

> death.

> It takes 24-48hrs to work. Yes, the pt die in that time frame.

> I'm an RN, worked for Hospice few months. Quit after examining my moral

> issues. "

>

> Shocking, no?

>

[Guest guest]

I've been practicing for over 35 years, treat a lot of cancer patients at

all stages and with many levels of pain. I've yet to find an effective

acupuncture, herbal other than opiates that will effectively deal with

severe advance stage acute-chronic pain. Donny Yance at Natura clinic has

made a very high concentration of corydalis and claims some results with it

but sleepiness is still a factor with that plant which is also in the poppy

family.

 

Treating comparatively lesser pains but the pain accompanying advanced

disease not very satisfactory. I realize that when a patient must accede to

he use of opiates to relieve pain it often signals the begining of the end.

However, I would not try to interfere with a patient's need and desire for

pain relief.

 

Its also important to keep in mind that opium and morphine are herbs which

have been taken over by the medical profession. Bill S. -- I think we both

knew a patient named Bob S. who passed away with colon cancer and found that

opium was more effective for his pain management than morphine and doctors

can prescribe that -- am i correct in this?

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of yehuda frischman

Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:09 AM

 

The Pain relieving agenda of Western Biomedicine

 

 

 

Dear Doug, Bill and all,

 

Read the response below of a former hospice nurse from a different list. She

confirms exactly what I have suspected: Western medicine's primary task in

cases beyond its ability to resolve is pain control.

 

" Hi Yehuda,

That's the protocol in Hospice Care, in the name of " to assist the pt &

family for a peaceful passing "

Pts are given heavy doses of narc, usually morphine, to induce coma, then

death.

It takes 24-48hrs to work. Yes, the pt die in that time frame.

I'm an RN, worked for Hospice few months. Quit after examining my moral

issues. "

 

Shocking, no?

 

I'll never forget, that a few years ago, when seeing a neurologist at UCLA,

seeing her wearing a button (like the no-smoking butttons) with the word

" PAIN " and a line through it. In other words, pain must be SUPPRESSED at all

costs! When they ultimately give up, their agenda calls for heroic doses of

analgesics which means euthanasia. They may deny it, it may not be

politically correct to admit it, but that IS their protocol. Shades of " Dr.

Death " , the infamous Jack Kevorkian. I feel we must do something! Our

medicine and other related and complementary therapies are able to

ameliorate pain without side effects. At the very least, dialogue must be

initiated with the medical community to have them consider the benefit of

alternatives to heroic dosages of strong analgesics used alone which DO

kill. Just like " goldilocks " a new protocol needs to be developed to offer

patients in unrelenting pain, relief that can be achieved using small doses

of analgesics which

are " just right " , together with acupuncture, herbs and other modalities. Not

only will the patient suffer less, but more importantly, this will give us

the time to make a difference, to affect a change and to give our medicine a

chance to work.

 

I am just a little guy. I am a relatively new practitioner and an not well

connected. Some of you do work with oncologists regularly and others of you

do work in lobbying and legislative reform.

 

Do you want to effect a change? Or are there other, bigger issues that YOU

consider priorities such as medicare or insurance reform? Personally, if you

want to involve me in this process, I will gladly make myself available, but

who am I?

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER

 

 

 

 

 

<taiqi (AT) taiqi (DOT) <taiqi%40taiqi.com> com> wrote:

I don't doubt that there may be something to the opiate overdoses but

I have two other tough alternatives. I'm wondering if they were doing

so well just a day before if the family members weren't experiencing

the patient's false Shen. I've seen this happen a day or two before

passing away. I think it's not impossible that you have made the

patients comfortable enough to pass away.

 

@ <%40>

, " bill_schoenbart "

<plantmed2 wrote:

>

> That's a tough one. Of course, high doses of opiates can kill

> people. Junkies die every day from opiate overdoses. On the other

> hand, painkillers can be very helpful to somebody in the late stages

> of cancer. Once the cancer gets into the bones, it can be very

> difficult to treat the pain with acupuncture alone. Painkillers plus

> acupuncture actually works. This is jus my limited experience, of

> course.

>

> - Bill

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car

Finder tool.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I don't have a quarrel with Western medicine's pain management

protocols in terminal cancer. Without it, acupuncture needles have

limited efficacy. I am much more concerned with the suffering and

death caused by unnecessary chemo and radiation, especially in

elderly patients.

 

- Bill

 

 

, yehuda frischman

< wrote:

>

> Dear Doug, Bill and all,

>

> Read the response below of a former hospice nurse from a

different list. She confirms exactly what I have suspected:

Western medicine's primary task in cases beyond its ability to

resolve is pain control.

>

> " Hi Yehuda,

> That's the protocol in Hospice Care, in the name of " to assist the

pt &

> family for a peaceful passing "

> Pts are given heavy doses of narc, usually morphine, to induce

coma, then

> death.

> It takes 24-48hrs to work. Yes, the pt die in that time frame.

> I'm an RN, worked for Hospice few months. Quit after examining my

moral

> issues. "

>

> Shocking, no?

>

> I'll never forget, that a few years ago, when seeing a

neurologist at UCLA, seeing her wearing a button (like the no-

smoking butttons) with the word " PAIN " and a line through it. In

other words, pain must be SUPPRESSED at all costs! When they

ultimately give up, their agenda calls for heroic doses of

analgesics which means euthanasia. They may deny it, it may not be

politically correct to admit it, but that IS their protocol. Shades

of " Dr. Death " , the infamous Jack Kevorkian. I feel we must do

something! Our medicine and other related and complementary

therapies are able to ameliorate pain without side effects. At the

very least, dialogue must be initiated with the medical community to

have them consider the benefit of alternatives to heroic dosages of

strong analgesics used alone which DO kill. Just like " goldilocks "

a new protocol needs to be developed to offer patients in

unrelenting pain, relief that can be achieved using small doses of

analgesics which

> are " just right " , together with acupuncture, herbs and other

modalities. Not only will the patient suffer less, but more

importantly, this will give us the time to make a difference, to

affect a change and to give our medicine a chance to work.

>

> I am just a little guy. I am a relatively new practitioner and

an not well connected. Some of you do work with oncologists

regularly and others of you do work in lobbying and legislative

reform.

>

> Do you want to effect a change? Or are there other, bigger

issues that YOU consider priorities such as medicare or insurance

reform? Personally, if you want to involve me in this process, I

will gladly make myself available, but who am I?

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER

>

>

>

>

>

> wrote:

> I don't doubt that there may be something to the opiate

overdoses but

> I have two other tough alternatives. I'm wondering if they were

doing

> so well just a day before if the family members weren't

experiencing

> the patient's false Shen. I've seen this happen a day or two before

> passing away. I think it's not impossible that you have made the

> patients comfortable enough to pass away.

>

> , " bill_schoenbart "

> <plantmed2@> wrote:

> >

> > That's a tough one. Of course, high doses of opiates can kill

> > people. Junkies die every day from opiate overdoses. On the

other

> > hand, painkillers can be very helpful to somebody in the late

stages

> > of cancer. Once the cancer gets into the bones, it can be very

> > difficult to treat the pain with acupuncture alone. Painkillers

plus

> > acupuncture actually works. This is jus my limited experience,

of

> > course.

> >

> > - Bill

> >

> >

 

>

>

>

>

>

> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos

new Car Finder tool.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. My sister-in-law, who had a very difficult life, and who suffered from

all kinds of abuse, came down with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (along with also

suffering from Lupus. ) Her whole life was a fight, and here too, she declared

that she was going to fight cancer and win. She did little to change the

stresses in her life, but faithfully followed the guidance and protocol of her

oncologist, which, of course, included chemo and radiation. After 6 months she

proudly declared that she was cancer free and had beaten cancer. Unfortunately,

3 years later she was diagnosed with leukemia (clearly the result of the chemo

poisoning her blood), and passed away within a month of diagnosis.

 

Bill, I don't dogmatically believe that analgesics should never be used in

terminal cancer cases. But my problem was with the lack of appropriate

discretion in dosing. Used with moderation in conjunction with other

ameliorative therapies such as acupuncture and Chinese medicine, can lower the

destructive inflammatory response that pain produces without causing the severe

organ damage that we have spoken about. This is integrative and complementary

medicine at its best, IMO,

 

All the best,

 

Yehuda

 

bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote:

I don't have a quarrel with Western medicine's pain management

protocols in terminal cancer. Without it, acupuncture needles have

limited efficacy. I am much more concerned with the suffering and

death caused by unnecessary chemo and radiation, especially in

elderly patients.

 

- Bill

 

, yehuda frischman

< wrote:

>

> Dear Doug, Bill and all,

>

> Read the response below of a former hospice nurse from a

different list. She confirms exactly what I have suspected:

Western medicine's primary task in cases beyond its ability to

resolve is pain control.

>

> " Hi Yehuda,

> That's the protocol in Hospice Care, in the name of " to assist the

pt &

> family for a peaceful passing "

> Pts are given heavy doses of narc, usually morphine, to induce

coma, then

> death.

> It takes 24-48hrs to work. Yes, the pt die in that time frame.

> I'm an RN, worked for Hospice few months. Quit after examining my

moral

> issues. "

>

> Shocking, no?

>

> I'll never forget, that a few years ago, when seeing a

neurologist at UCLA, seeing her wearing a button (like the no-

smoking butttons) with the word " PAIN " and a line through it. In

other words, pain must be SUPPRESSED at all costs! When they

ultimately give up, their agenda calls for heroic doses of

analgesics which means euthanasia. They may deny it, it may not be

politically correct to admit it, but that IS their protocol. Shades

of " Dr. Death " , the infamous Jack Kevorkian. I feel we must do

something! Our medicine and other related and complementary

therapies are able to ameliorate pain without side effects. At the

very least, dialogue must be initiated with the medical community to

have them consider the benefit of alternatives to heroic dosages of

strong analgesics used alone which DO kill. Just like " goldilocks "

a new protocol needs to be developed to offer patients in

unrelenting pain, relief that can be achieved using small doses of

analgesics which

> are " just right " , together with acupuncture, herbs and other

modalities. Not only will the patient suffer less, but more

importantly, this will give us the time to make a difference, to

affect a change and to give our medicine a chance to work.

>

> I am just a little guy. I am a relatively new practitioner and

an not well connected. Some of you do work with oncologists

regularly and others of you do work in lobbying and legislative

reform.

>

> Do you want to effect a change? Or are there other, bigger

issues that YOU consider priorities such as medicare or insurance

reform? Personally, if you want to involve me in this process, I

will gladly make myself available, but who am I?

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER

>

>

>

>

>

> wrote:

> I don't doubt that there may be something to the opiate

overdoses but

> I have two other tough alternatives. I'm wondering if they were

doing

> so well just a day before if the family members weren't

experiencing

> the patient's false Shen. I've seen this happen a day or two before

> passing away. I think it's not impossible that you have made the

> patients comfortable enough to pass away.

>

> , " bill_schoenbart "

> <plantmed2@> wrote:

> >

> > That's a tough one. Of course, high doses of opiates can kill

> > people. Junkies die every day from opiate overdoses. On the

other

> > hand, painkillers can be very helpful to somebody in the late

stages

> > of cancer. Once the cancer gets into the bones, it can be very

> > difficult to treat the pain with acupuncture alone. Painkillers

plus

> > acupuncture actually works. This is jus my limited experience,

of

> > course.

> >

> > - Bill

> >

> >

 

>

>

>

>

>

> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos

new Car Finder tool.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michael

Corydalis at high concentrations is much more toxic than opiates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Michael Tierra

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:04 AM

RE: The Pain relieving agenda of Western Biomedicine

 

 

I've been practicing for over 35 years, treat a lot of cancer patients at

all stages and with many levels of pain. I've yet to find an effective

acupuncture, herbal other than opiates that will effectively deal with

severe advance stage acute-chronic pain. Donny Yance at Natura clinic has

made a very high concentration of corydalis and claims some results with it

but sleepiness is still a factor with that plant which is also in the poppy

family.

 

Treating comparatively lesser pains but the pain accompanying advanced

disease not very satisfactory. I realize that when a patient must accede to

he use of opiates to relieve pain it often signals the begining of the end.

However, I would not try to interfere with a patient's need and desire for

pain relief.

 

Its also important to keep in mind that opium and morphine are herbs which

have been taken over by the medical profession. Bill S. -- I think we both

knew a patient named Bob S. who passed away with colon cancer and found that

opium was more effective for his pain management than morphine and doctors

can prescribe that -- am i correct in this?

 

 

_____

[Guest guest]

I'm very glad to know this. What is the toxicity? I know that Donny Yance

has a highly concentrated extract and has been using it apparently with some

success in his Natura Clinic in Portland Oregon. So can you say more about

this?

Michael Tierra

www.planetherbs.com

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of Alon Marcus

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:46 AM

 

Re: The Pain relieving agenda of Western Biomedicine

 

 

 

Michael

Corydalis at high concentrations is much more toxic than opiates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Michael Tierra

@ <%40>

 

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:04 AM

RE: The Pain relieving agenda of Western Biomedicine

 

I've been practicing for over 35 years, treat a lot of cancer patients at

all stages and with many levels of pain. I've yet to find an effective

acupuncture, herbal other than opiates that will effectively deal with

severe advance stage acute-chronic pain. Donny Yance at Natura clinic has

made a very high concentration of corydalis and claims some results with it

but sleepiness is still a factor with that plant which is also in the poppy

family.

 

Treating comparatively lesser pains but the pain accompanying advanced

disease not very satisfactory. I realize that when a patient must accede to

he use of opiates to relieve pain it often signals the begining of the end.

However, I would not try to interfere with a patient's need and desire for

pain relief.

 

Its also important to keep in mind that opium and morphine are herbs which

have been taken over by the medical profession. Bill S. -- I think we both

knew a patient named Bob S. who passed away with colon cancer and found that

opium was more effective for his pain management than morphine and doctors

can prescribe that -- am i correct in this?

 

_____

 

 

 

 

_____

 

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