Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I've wanted to share this pearl with those of you who have not heard of it. My first Chinese herb teacher was a qwerky Taoist priest type operating before licensing occured with a Chinese acupuncture and herb business in the back room of a Chinese nicknack store on one of the streets near Golden Gate park. He taught both Efrem Korngold and I together. " one dolla' an herb!' -- reading and translating from the materia medica. We never finished because we didn't know the herbs, no latin name, and no way to obtain or identify them. However, throughout he showed us the proverbial picture album of famous people and politicos who successfully sought his help. His standard treatment was to sell them one of those high quality single (probably wild or cultivated wild) ginseng roots that sold for anywhere upwards of $300 to $1500 a root. He administered this high powered ginseng therapy by having them follow a strict diet for a week while taking a dark black tea which he would never tell us what it was. At the time I called it " swamp water. " For over 30 years Efrem and i always wondered what the 'swamp water tea' was. On a lark, I happened to revisit the store and found that our teacher was retired and spent time hanging withhis friends in SF Chinatown. I asked his wife about the " black " tea and she referred me to a nearby pharmacy where he would obtain his herbs.We went there and found that the tea was " liu wei " and the pharmacist and several old Chinese people who happened to be there said that there is indeed a tradition of prescribing liu wei, irregardless of constitution or pattern for several days before taking high grade ginseng and that this prepared the body to achieve maxmum benefit from the ginseng, which by the way was decocted in a ginseng cooker and taken all at once. People who underwent that therapy that we spoke with said how it produced tremendous and lasting energy that would last for anywhere from 6 months to a year depending on the grade of ginseng -- or so they claimed. I had never heard of this before and I'm happy to share with you all and wonder if any of you have any familiarity or thoughts about this special high powered ginseng therapy? Michael Tierra www.planetherbs.com _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1938 Spam messages and set aside 1319 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hi Michael, How big is the dose of ginseng that is consumed at once? Where the patients decocting and consuming an entire root? Kip Roseman _____ On Behalf Of Michael Tierra Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:20 AM Liu Wei and ginseng I've wanted to share this pearl with those of you who have not heard of it. My first Chinese herb teacher was a qwerky Taoist priest type operating before licensing occured with a Chinese acupuncture and herb business in the back room of a Chinese nicknack store on one of the streets near Golden Gate park. He taught both Efrem Korngold and I together. " one dolla' an herb!' -- reading and translating from the materia medica. We never finished because we didn't know the herbs, no latin name, and no way to obtain or identify them. However, throughout he showed us the proverbial picture album of famous people and politicos who successfully sought his help. His standard treatment was to sell them one of those high quality single (probably wild or cultivated wild) ginseng roots that sold for anywhere upwards of $300 to $1500 a root. He administered this high powered ginseng therapy by having them follow a strict diet for a week while taking a dark black tea which he would never tell us what it was. At the time I called it " swamp water. " For over 30 years Efrem and i always wondered what the 'swamp water tea' was. On a lark, I happened to revisit the store and found that our teacher was retired and spent time hanging withhis friends in SF Chinatown. I asked his wife about the " black " tea and she referred me to a nearby pharmacy where he would obtain his herbs.We went there and found that the tea was " liu wei " and the pharmacist and several old Chinese people who happened to be there said that there is indeed a tradition of prescribing liu wei, irregardless of constitution or pattern for several days before taking high grade ginseng and that this prepared the body to achieve maxmum benefit from the ginseng, which by the way was decocted in a ginseng cooker and taken all at once. People who underwent that therapy that we spoke with said how it produced tremendous and lasting energy that would last for anywhere from 6 months to a year depending on the grade of ginseng -- or so they claimed. I had never heard of this before and I'm happy to share with you all and wonder if any of you have any familiarity or thoughts about this special high powered ginseng therapy? Michael Tierra www.planetherbs.-com _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1938 Spam messages and set aside 1319 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.-com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 The entire root. _____ On Behalf Of kip Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:21 AM RE: Liu Wei and ginseng Hi Michael, How big is the dose of ginseng that is consumed at once? Where the patients decocting and consuming an entire root? Kip Roseman _____ @ <%40> [@ <%40> ] On Behalf Of Michael Tierra Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:20 AM @ <%40> Liu Wei and ginseng I've wanted to share this pearl with those of you who have not heard of it. My first Chinese herb teacher was a qwerky Taoist priest type operating before licensing occured with a Chinese acupuncture and herb business in the back room of a Chinese nicknack store on one of the streets near Golden Gate park. He taught both Efrem Korngold and I together. " one dolla' an herb!' -- reading and translating from the materia medica. We never finished because we didn't know the herbs, no latin name, and no way to obtain or identify them. However, throughout he showed us the proverbial picture album of famous people and politicos who successfully sought his help. His standard treatment was to sell them one of those high quality single (probably wild or cultivated wild) ginseng roots that sold for anywhere upwards of $300 to $1500 a root. He administered this high powered ginseng therapy by having them follow a strict diet for a week while taking a dark black tea which he would never tell us what it was. At the time I called it " swamp water. " For over 30 years Efrem and i always wondered what the 'swamp water tea' was. On a lark, I happened to revisit the store and found that our teacher was retired and spent time hanging withhis friends in SF Chinatown. I asked his wife about the " black " tea and she referred me to a nearby pharmacy where he would obtain his herbs.We went there and found that the tea was " liu wei " and the pharmacist and several old Chinese people who happened to be there said that there is indeed a tradition of prescribing liu wei, irregardless of constitution or pattern for several days before taking high grade ginseng and that this prepared the body to achieve maxmum benefit from the ginseng, which by the way was decocted in a ginseng cooker and taken all at once. People who underwent that therapy that we spoke with said how it produced tremendous and lasting energy that would last for anywhere from 6 months to a year depending on the grade of ginseng -- or so they claimed. I had never heard of this before and I'm happy to share with you all and wonder if any of you have any familiarity or thoughts about this special high powered ginseng therapy? Michael Tierra www.planetherbs.-com _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1938 Spam messages and set aside 1319 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.-com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Thank you for sharing this, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Michael, is the " high quality " ren shen, hong or bai? (red or white) Do you know if it was wild? Thank you for the post. K. On 8/21/07, CYNTHIA SPLIES <splies wrote: > > Thank you for sharing this, Michael > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti Confidentiality Notice: THE INFORMATION AND ANY ATTACHMENTS CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. This message may be proprietary and/or attorney-client communication, and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or any agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us by mail. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Having seen much of that in Hong Kong, and growing up in Chinatown in NYC, I often saw the old herbalists having some sort of " elixir tea " . It makes sense for people over 40 to have a bit of Liu Wei Di Huang Tang, then followed by a strong Ginseng tea. Old herbalists almost always add Chen Pi and Ban Xia in most internal medicine Rx's just in a pinch to clear phlegm, or a bit of Dan Shen to tonify the blood in OB/Gyn Rx's. The Cantonese are specialists in herbal soups that they serve in old style restaurants to cool you in the summer, and warm and tonify you in the winter. Its wonderful to see the old timers had some gems of wisdom. Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac., QME chusauli On 8/21/07, Michael Tierra <mtierra wrote: > > I've wanted to share this pearl with those of you who have not heard of > it. > > My first Chinese herb teacher was a qwerky Taoist priest type operating > before licensing occured with a Chinese acupuncture and herb business in > the > back room of a Chinese nicknack store on one of the streets near Golden > Gate > park. > > He taught both Efrem Korngold and I together. " one dolla' an herb!' -- > reading and translating from the materia medica. We never finished because > we didn't know the herbs, no latin name, and no way to obtain or identify > them. However, throughout he showed us the proverbial picture album of > famous people and politicos who successfully sought his help. > > His standard treatment was to sell them one of those high quality single > (probably wild or cultivated wild) ginseng roots that sold for anywhere > upwards of $300 to $1500 a root. He administered this high powered ginseng > therapy by having them follow a strict diet for a week while taking a dark > black tea which he would never tell us what it was. At the time I called > it > " swamp water. " > > For over 30 years Efrem and i always wondered what the 'swamp water tea' > was. On a lark, I happened to revisit the store and found that our teacher > was retired and spent time hanging withhis friends in SF Chinatown. I > asked > his wife about the " black " tea and she referred me to a nearby pharmacy > where he would obtain his herbs.We went there and found that the tea was > " liu wei " and the pharmacist and several old Chinese people who happened > to > be there said that there is indeed a tradition of prescribing liu wei, > irregardless of constitution or pattern for several days before taking > high > grade ginseng and that this prepared the body to achieve maxmum benefit > from > the ginseng, which by the way was decocted in a ginseng cooker and taken > all > at once. > > People who underwent that therapy that we spoke with said how it produced > tremendous and lasting energy that would last for anywhere from 6 months > to > a year depending on the grade of ginseng -- or so they claimed. > > I had never heard of this before and I'm happy to share with you all and > wonder if any of you have any familiarity or thoughts about this special > high powered ginseng therapy? > > Michael Tierra > www.planetherbs.com > > _____ > > << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1938 Spam messages and set aside > 1319 Newsletters for me > You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 As I recall, it I was not red. ginseng. Chinese describe only wild or cultivated wild ginseng as having this kind of effect. I understand that cultivated wild is digging a wild plant and then cultivating it. Michael _____ On Behalf Of Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:55 AM Re: Re: Liu Wei and ginseng Michael, is the " high quality " ren shen, hong or bai? (red or white) Do you know if it was wild? Thank you for the post. K. On 8/21/07, CYNTHIA SPLIES <splies (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) <splies%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote: > > Thank you for sharing this, Michael > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti Confidentiality Notice: THE INFORMATION AND ANY ATTACHMENTS CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. This message may be proprietary and/or attorney-client communication, and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or any agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us by mail. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 , " Michael Tierra " <mtierra wrote: > > As I recall, it I was not red. ginseng. Chinese describe only wild or > cultivated wild ginseng as having this kind of effect. I understand that > cultivated wild is digging a wild plant and then cultivating it. No, actually the reverse is true about the " cultivated wild " roots- they are planted in containers or harvested in an immature state in the wild, and then transplanted to an area that can be protected and grown under the forest. In other words, they are typically planted in tiny containers and then moved to the wild to mature. This type of ginseng is called yi shan shen ( " transplanted mountain ginseng/root " ). When the groundcover is loosened by removing the other plants under the forest canopy, the half-wild ginseng can grow to a reasonable size in about 10-12 years without any chemicals or nutrients. This is generally the highest grade of Chinese ginseng available, although another ethical product exists one grade higher. The next grade up is ginseng that is grown in the wild from seed, without any disturbance of the surrounding flora or preparation of the soil. This type takes 18-20 years to reach a reasonable size (though still tiny at a 2 gram average weight per root). The 10-12 yr transplanted stuff tends to weigh an average of 5-8 grams per root if it is good quality, so it is larger and fills a display case a bit more fully. On the Chinese wholesale market, the stuff grown from seed in the wild is about 4 times the price of the transplanted roots by weight, and differs only from true wild ginseng in that the seeds have been spread in the forest by humans, rather than by birds or other vectors of nature. The product grown from seed is about 40 times cheaper than true wild ginseng by weight. Ginseng experts estimate that over 98% of what is sold on the market as wild Chinese ginseng is not actually truly wild, but is the transplanted or seed-grown half-wild product, which can only be distinguished from the true wild roots with a certain level of expertise. True wild ginseng is legal in mainland China, and comes with government documentation, digital photographs, internet tracking numbers, and other distinguishing features to ensure its authenticity. Wild ginseng is seriously endangered in its natural ecosystem so the half-wild products are the only ginsengs in this caliber that are really ethical for consumption. The half-wild products support a small group of essentially organic farmers, so it wins out on ethics as well as price. Half-wild and wild ginseng is always white, it is never processed into red ginseng. The half-wild and wild forms are very different to tell apart, particularly the half-wild variety grown from seed, which has the same neck formation as the true wild product. The true wild product tends to have perfectly round striations that are completely unbroken, and the striations tend not to extend far below the top of the root body. The high density of striations, the " pearl nodes " on the whiskers, and the characteristic neck progression are all important factors but they are similar in the wild and half-wild forms. These types of ginseng are rarely consumed (usually made into liquors or eaten straight) and are mostly sold for display purposes or as fancy gifts. As Michael Tierra mentioned in the previous post, these roots are generally sold for several hundred dollars or much more per piece, and it is generally difficult for people without advanced knowledge and Chinese language ability to buy the roots at a reasonable price, since nearly all resellers sell the half-wild roots at the true wild prices. Having personally consumed a lot of such ginseng, I can tell you that the effect is profound but it is nonetheless not overtly some type of legendary thing that heals you for months afterwards. I don't know, I guess I've felt great since I've taken it, but its effect is subtle. Mountain ginseng has a slightly different feel from really good Korean red ginseng, for example, and both differ from common ginseng in the subtle dimensions of their effect. Mountain ginseng is like really good wine, it doesn't really make you more drunk than cheap wine, but it does have a uniquely more subtle and beautiful buzz that is clearly perceptible. Before 500 years ago or so, all the ginseng that was consumed was wild. If you try making a simple formula like si jun zi tang with a whole 6 gram mountain root, some wild bai zhu, good yunnan poria, and halfway decent gan cao, the effect of even such a basic formula is dramatically improved. That's how it was served back in the ancient days, and all the ingredients remain available to those who seek them up to the present day. The study of pharmacy is one of the branches of our field that is all too rarely pursued, even though it's great fun. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 I really appreciate what you shared Eric. The liu-wei-ginseng treatment is accompanied with the following diet. The liu wei should be taken about 7 days before taking the ginseng. During the week one is supposed to eat only rice, meat, refrain from green vegetables, vinegar, black tea, coffee, carrots. No strenuous exercise three days before taking the 'wild' ginseng. One can also have chicken soup with lotus seed, almonds, lily bulbes and rice. The ginseng is cooked for no more than 4 to 5 hours in a ginseng steamer. Anyone familiar with other dietary recommendations or prohibitions when taking high quality ginseng? Again, thanks for correcting me on my error how 'wild' ginseng is grown. Michael Tierra www.planetherbs.com _____ On Behalf Of Eric Brand Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:43 PM Re: Liu Wei and ginseng @ <%40> , " Michael Tierra " <mtierra wrote: > > As I recall, it I was not red. ginseng. Chinese describe only wild or > cultivated wild ginseng as having this kind of effect. I understand that > cultivated wild is digging a wild plant and then cultivating it. No, actually the reverse is true about the " cultivated wild " roots- they are planted in containers or harvested in an immature state in the wild, and then transplanted to an area that can be protected and grown under the forest. In other words, they are typically planted in tiny containers and then moved to the wild to mature. This type of ginseng is called yi shan shen ( " transplanted mountain ginseng/root " ). When the groundcover is loosened by removing the other plants under the forest canopy, the half-wild ginseng can grow to a reasonable size in about 10-12 years without any chemicals or nutrients. This is generally the highest grade of Chinese ginseng available, although another ethical product exists one grade higher. The next grade up is ginseng that is grown in the wild from seed, without any disturbance of the surrounding flora or preparation of the soil. This type takes 18-20 years to reach a reasonable size (though still tiny at a 2 gram average weight per root). The 10-12 yr transplanted stuff tends to weigh an average of 5-8 grams per root if it is good quality, so it is larger and fills a display case a bit more fully. On the Chinese wholesale market, the stuff grown from seed in the wild is about 4 times the price of the transplanted roots by weight, and differs only from true wild ginseng in that the seeds have been spread in the forest by humans, rather than by birds or other vectors of nature. The product grown from seed is about 40 times cheaper than true wild ginseng by weight. Ginseng experts estimate that over 98% of what is sold on the market as wild Chinese ginseng is not actually truly wild, but is the transplanted or seed-grown half-wild product, which can only be distinguished from the true wild roots with a certain level of expertise. True wild ginseng is legal in mainland China, and comes with government documentation, digital photographs, internet tracking numbers, and other distinguishing features to ensure its authenticity. Wild ginseng is seriously endangered in its natural ecosystem so the half-wild products are the only ginsengs in this caliber that are really ethical for consumption. The half-wild products support a small group of essentially organic farmers, so it wins out on ethics as well as price. Half-wild and wild ginseng is always white, it is never processed into red ginseng. The half-wild and wild forms are very different to tell apart, particularly the half-wild variety grown from seed, which has the same neck formation as the true wild product. The true wild product tends to have perfectly round striations that are completely unbroken, and the striations tend not to extend far below the top of the root body. The high density of striations, the " pearl nodes " on the whiskers, and the characteristic neck progression are all important factors but they are similar in the wild and half-wild forms. These types of ginseng are rarely consumed (usually made into liquors or eaten straight) and are mostly sold for display purposes or as fancy gifts. As Michael Tierra mentioned in the previous post, these roots are generally sold for several hundred dollars or much more per piece, and it is generally difficult for people without advanced knowledge and Chinese language ability to buy the roots at a reasonable price, since nearly all resellers sell the half-wild roots at the true wild prices. Having personally consumed a lot of such ginseng, I can tell you that the effect is profound but it is nonetheless not overtly some type of legendary thing that heals you for months afterwards. I don't know, I guess I've felt great since I've taken it, but its effect is subtle. Mountain ginseng has a slightly different feel from really good Korean red ginseng, for example, and both differ from common ginseng in the subtle dimensions of their effect. Mountain ginseng is like really good wine, it doesn't really make you more drunk than cheap wine, but it does have a uniquely more subtle and beautiful buzz that is clearly perceptible. Before 500 years ago or so, all the ginseng that was consumed was wild. If you try making a simple formula like si jun zi tang with a whole 6 gram mountain root, some wild bai zhu, good yunnan poria, and halfway decent gan cao, the effect of even such a basic formula is dramatically improved. That's how it was served back in the ancient days, and all the ingredients remain available to those who seek them up to the present day. The study of pharmacy is one of the branches of our field that is all too rarely pursued, even though it's great fun. Eric Brand _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 2019 Spam messages and set aside 1337 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Great info Eric, thanks for sharing. My instructor told me that 'wild ginseng hunters' used to go out 5 at a time, armed, and only 3 would return. He said a top quality root would be worth a truck load of 'normal' cultivated ginseng, thus the intense competition. I asked him if there was much difference in quality and he told me that the best ginseng was like CPR. Geoff , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > , " Michael Tierra " > <mtierra@> wrote: > > > > As I recall, it I was not red. ginseng. Chinese describe only wild or > > cultivated wild ginseng as having this kind of effect. I understand that > > cultivated wild is digging a wild plant and then cultivating it. > > No, actually the reverse is true about the " cultivated wild " roots- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Michael, Eric, thanks for the info. Also, aren't radishes, turnips, and lai fu zi incompatible with ren shen. I read in a text that shamans would mix huo ma ye with ren shen to connect heaven and earth. Leaf and Root, Yang and Yin. Anyone know about using ren shen for spiritual practices? Many have said that high quality ren shen is a strong spirit that talks to humans. Has anyone communed with ren shen in these ways? Btw, does the liu wei (yin) contain the ren shen like a container? How does the liu wei potentiate the ren shen's function? Being Korean, I know that history books talk about Korea sending wild ginseng to the Chinese empire as offerings with envoys. Kirin ginseng is well known. North Korean Ginseng is also famed. Does anyone know of how these ginsengs differ as far as effects to standard ginsengs? Thanks. On 8/23/07, Michael Tierra <mtierra wrote: > > I really appreciate what you shared Eric. The liu-wei-ginseng treatment > is > accompanied with the following diet. > > The liu wei should be taken about 7 days before taking the ginseng. During > the week one is supposed to eat only rice, meat, refrain from green > vegetables, vinegar, black tea, coffee, carrots. No strenuous exercise > three > days before taking the 'wild' ginseng. > > One can also have chicken soup with lotus seed, almonds, lily bulbes and > rice. > > The ginseng is cooked for no more than 4 to 5 hours in a ginseng steamer. > > Anyone familiar with other dietary recommendations or prohibitions when > taking high quality ginseng? > > Again, thanks for correcting me on my error how 'wild' ginseng is grown. > > Michael Tierra > www.planetherbs.com > > > > > _____ > > <%40> > [ <%40>\ ] > On Behalf Of Eric Brand > Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:43 PM > <%40> > Re: Liu Wei and ginseng > > @ <%40> > > , " Michael Tierra " > <mtierra wrote: > > > > As I recall, it I was not red. ginseng. Chinese describe only wild or > > cultivated wild ginseng as having this kind of effect. I understand that > > cultivated wild is digging a wild plant and then cultivating it. > > No, actually the reverse is true about the " cultivated wild " roots- > they are planted in containers or harvested in an immature state in > the wild, and then transplanted to an area that can be protected and > grown under the forest. In other words, they are typically planted in > tiny containers and then moved to the wild to mature. This type of > ginseng is called yi shan shen ( " transplanted mountain ginseng/root " ). > > When the groundcover is loosened by removing the other plants under > the forest canopy, the half-wild ginseng can grow to a reasonable size > in about 10-12 years without any chemicals or nutrients. This is > generally the highest grade of Chinese ginseng available, although > another ethical product exists one grade higher. The next grade up is > ginseng that is grown in the wild from seed, without any disturbance > of the surrounding flora or preparation of the soil. This type takes > 18-20 years to reach a reasonable size (though still tiny at a 2 gram > average weight per root). The 10-12 yr transplanted stuff tends to > weigh an average of 5-8 grams per root if it is good quality, so it is > larger and fills a display case a bit more fully. > > On the Chinese wholesale market, the stuff grown from seed in the wild > is about 4 times the price of the transplanted roots by weight, and > differs only from true wild ginseng in that the seeds have been spread > in the forest by humans, rather than by birds or other vectors of > nature. The product grown from seed is about 40 times cheaper than > true wild ginseng by weight. Ginseng experts estimate that over 98% > of what is sold on the market as wild Chinese ginseng is not actually > truly wild, but is the transplanted or seed-grown half-wild product, > which can only be distinguished from the true wild roots with a > certain level of expertise. True wild ginseng is legal in mainland > China, and comes with government documentation, digital photographs, > internet tracking numbers, and other distinguishing features to ensure > its authenticity. Wild ginseng is seriously endangered in its natural > ecosystem so the half-wild products are the only ginsengs in this > caliber that are really ethical for consumption. The half-wild > products support a small group of essentially organic farmers, so it > wins out on ethics as well as price. > > Half-wild and wild ginseng is always white, it is never processed into > red ginseng. The half-wild and wild forms are very different to tell > apart, particularly the half-wild variety grown from seed, which has > the same neck formation as the true wild product. The true wild > product tends to have perfectly round striations that are completely > unbroken, and the striations tend not to extend far below the top of > the root body. The high density of striations, the " pearl nodes " on > the whiskers, and the characteristic neck progression are all > important factors but they are similar in the wild and half-wild forms. > > These types of ginseng are rarely consumed (usually made into liquors > or eaten straight) and are mostly sold for display purposes or as > fancy gifts. As Michael Tierra mentioned in the previous post, these > roots are generally sold for several hundred dollars or much more per > piece, and it is generally difficult for people without advanced > knowledge and Chinese language ability to buy the roots at a > reasonable price, since nearly all resellers sell the half-wild roots > at the true wild prices. > > Having personally consumed a lot of such ginseng, I can tell you that > the effect is profound but it is nonetheless not overtly some type of > legendary thing that heals you for months afterwards. I don't know, I > guess I've felt great since I've taken it, but its effect is subtle. > Mountain ginseng has a slightly different feel from really good Korean > red ginseng, for example, and both differ from common ginseng in the > subtle dimensions of their effect. Mountain ginseng is like really > good wine, it doesn't really make you more drunk than cheap wine, but > it does have a uniquely more subtle and beautiful buzz that is clearly > perceptible. > > Before 500 years ago or so, all the ginseng that was consumed was > wild. If you try making a simple formula like si jun zi tang with a > whole 6 gram mountain root, some wild bai zhu, good yunnan poria, and > halfway decent gan cao, the effect of even such a basic formula is > dramatically improved. That's how it was served back in the ancient > days, and all the ingredients remain available to those who seek them > up to the present day. The study of pharmacy is one of the branches > of our field that is all too rarely pursued, even though it's great fun. > > Eric Brand > > _____ > > << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 2019 Spam messages and set aside > 1337 Newsletters for me > You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 , " " <johnkokko wrote: > Also, aren't radishes, turnips, and lai fu zi incompatible with ren shen. Lai fu zi is the seed of the plant that produces daikon, the large Asian white radishes that are often cooked with beef. The Chinese radish is called luo bo, and presumably it is sometimes translated as 'turnips' under the assumption that Westerners won't be familiar with the daikon root. It and lai fu zi, its seed, are said to reduce the efficacy of ginseng. They are not incompatible in the sense of the " eighteen incompatibilities, " also known as clashing relationships of medicinals. > Anyone know about using ren shen for spiritual practices? > Many have said that high quality ren shen is a strong spirit that talks to > humans. > Has anyone communed with ren shen in these ways? Ginseng has a certain touch on the spirit that most ginseng fans enjoy. The concept of shen in Chinese medicine is mostly associated with a sense of vitality, and I think ginseng taps into this feeling more tangibly than most things do. So while I'm not personally oriented towards feeling this as an overly " spiritual " thing, I do think that ginseng is a very potent and sacred plant, and I do think it can confer a positive shift that can be felt mentally. The more high end ginsengs tend to have this subtle lift that distinguishes them from the normal ginseng, but any good ginseng can give this boost. Interestingly, one of ginseng's ancient names was " spirit herb, " and its ability to improve mental faculties was known since ancient times. > Being Korean, I know that history books talk about Korea sending wild > ginseng to the Chinese empire as offerings with envoys. > Kirin ginseng is well known. North Korean Ginseng is also famed. > Does anyone know of how these ginsengs differ as far as effects to standard > ginsengs? Nowhere is ginseng so imbued with history, mythology, and respect than in Korean culture. North Korean ginseng is difficult to get because of trade restrictions, and though China has some access to North Korean products, the authenticity of unpackaged ginseng sold as Korean in mainland China must always be questioned. Korean ginseng as a whole is widely counterfeited; even in South Korea much of the " Korean ginseng " is Chinese ginseng that has been smuggled in to be sold as Korean for a higher price. South Korean ginseng is very well-regulated and controlled, and much of it is distributed internationally through one major brand. This brand distributed very high-quality and authentic Korean red ginseng, but it is very expensive, over 1000 dollars a pound for the higher grades. Nonetheless, it is basically the only way to get the premium and authentic product unless someone has direct and reliable Korean connections. The price of Korean ginseng is much higher than Chinese ginseng, partly due to the higher cost of land and labor and partly due to the strict government requirements on ginseng cultivation, which require that ginseng fields lay fallow for at least 4 years in between crops, so that the soil can replenish itself. Korean red ginseng tends to be stronger and hotter than Chinese ginseng. White Korean ginseng also exists and is of good quality, but it is hard to find. Kirin ginseng simply refers to ginseng grown in the province of Kirin (Jilin). While Kirin (Jilin) is the best region for growing ginseng in China, over 70% of Chinese ginseng is from Jilin anyway. Liaoning and Heilongjiang are the only other Chinese states that produce ren shen in any meaningful quantity. The product from the area around Chang Bai Shan on the border of North Korea is prized, and there is a similar mountain in Korea whose fame equals that of Chang Bai Shan. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Thanks Eric, Do you know how red ginseng is processed? Is it steamed with other herbs or wines? On 8/24/07, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: > > --- In <%40>, > " " > <johnkokko wrote: > > Also, aren't radishes, turnips, and lai fu zi incompatible with ren > shen. > > Lai fu zi is the seed of the plant that produces daikon, the large > Asian white radishes that are often cooked with beef. The Chinese > radish is called luo bo, and presumably it is sometimes translated as > 'turnips' under the assumption that Westerners won't be familiar with > the daikon root. It and lai fu zi, its seed, are said to reduce the > efficacy of ginseng. They are not incompatible in the sense of the > " eighteen incompatibilities, " also known as clashing relationships of > medicinals. > > > Anyone know about using ren shen for spiritual practices? > > Many have said that high quality ren shen is a strong spirit that > talks to > > humans. > > Has anyone communed with ren shen in these ways? > > Ginseng has a certain touch on the spirit that most ginseng fans > enjoy. The concept of shen in Chinese medicine is mostly associated > with a sense of vitality, and I think ginseng taps into this feeling > more tangibly than most things do. So while I'm not personally > oriented towards feeling this as an overly " spiritual " thing, I do > think that ginseng is a very potent and sacred plant, and I do think > it can confer a positive shift that can be felt mentally. The more > high end ginsengs tend to have this subtle lift that distinguishes > them from the normal ginseng, but any good ginseng can give this > boost. Interestingly, one of ginseng's ancient names was " spirit > herb, " and its ability to improve mental faculties was known since > ancient times. > > > Being Korean, I know that history books talk about Korea sending wild > > ginseng to the Chinese empire as offerings with envoys. > > Kirin ginseng is well known. North Korean Ginseng is also famed. > > Does anyone know of how these ginsengs differ as far as effects to > standard > > ginsengs? > > Nowhere is ginseng so imbued with history, mythology, and respect than > in Korean culture. North Korean ginseng is difficult to get because > of trade restrictions, and though China has some access to North > Korean products, the authenticity of unpackaged ginseng sold as Korean > in mainland China must always be questioned. Korean ginseng as a > whole is widely counterfeited; even in South Korea much of the " Korean > ginseng " is Chinese ginseng that has been smuggled in to be sold as > Korean for a higher price. > > South Korean ginseng is very well-regulated and controlled, and much > of it is distributed internationally through one major brand. This > brand distributed very high-quality and authentic Korean red ginseng, > but it is very expensive, over 1000 dollars a pound for the higher > grades. Nonetheless, it is basically the only way to get the premium > and authentic product unless someone has direct and reliable Korean > connections. The price of Korean ginseng is much higher than Chinese > ginseng, partly due to the higher cost of land and labor and partly > due to the strict government requirements on ginseng cultivation, > which require that ginseng fields lay fallow for at least 4 years in > between crops, so that the soil can replenish itself. > > Korean red ginseng tends to be stronger and hotter than Chinese > ginseng. White Korean ginseng also exists and is of good quality, > but it is hard to find. Kirin ginseng simply refers to ginseng > grown in the province of Kirin (Jilin). While Kirin (Jilin) is the > best region for growing ginseng in China, over 70% of Chinese ginseng > is from Jilin anyway. Liaoning and Heilongjiang are the only other > Chinese states that produce ren shen in any meaningful quantity. The > product from the area around Chang Bai Shan on the border of North > Korea is prized, and there is a similar mountain in Korea whose fame > equals that of Chang Bai Shan. > > Eric Brand > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti Confidentiality Notice: THE INFORMATION AND ANY ATTACHMENTS CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. This message may be proprietary and/or attorney-client communication, and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or any agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us by mail. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 HI Michael: I am an HPV specialist and do HPV and HPV-related cancer treatment. You can contact me offline if you would like. Misha ______________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Yes but how do i get your email address? Can you email me mtierra _____ On Behalf Of TCMPaths Friday, August 24, 2007 10:22 PM Re: Liu Wei and ginseng HI Michael: I am an HPV specialist and do HPV and HPV-related cancer treatment. You can contact me offline if you would like. Misha ________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail. <http://mail.aol.com> aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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