Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I'm looking for recommendations on an encapsulation machine. I'm familiar with the ones that sell for around 20 - 50 dollars, but they take as long as 15 - 20 minutes to make 100 capsules. I'd like to find something more efficient, but not a large industrial-scale machine. Any ideas? - Bill Schoenbart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 On 9/28/07, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: > > I'm looking for recommendations on an encapsulation machine. I'm > familiar with the ones that sell for around 20 - 50 dollars, but they > take as long as 15 - 20 minutes to make 100 capsules. I'd like to find > something more efficient, but not a large industrial-scale machine. > Any ideas? > > - Bill Schoenbart > The next level up from the plastic 20-50 dollar jobs is the $350-400 job. It makes 100 capsules in 5-7 minutes. Still requires you to stand there, but if you make a lot of capsules, this will pay for itself really quick. I wouldn't trade mine in for all the tea in... well, you know. -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Hi Al, any brand names or url to visit? Thanks, Fernando , " Al Stone " <al wrote: > > On 9/28/07, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: > > > > I'm looking for recommendations on an encapsulation machine. I'm > > familiar with the ones that sell for around 20 - 50 dollars, but they > > take as long as 15 - 20 minutes to make 100 capsules. I'd like to find > > something more efficient, but not a large industrial-scale machine. > > Any ideas? > > > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > > > The next level up from the plastic 20-50 dollar jobs is the $350-400 job. > > It makes 100 capsules in 5-7 minutes. Still requires you to stand there, but > if you make a lot of capsules, this will pay for itself really quick. I > wouldn't trade mine in for all the tea in... well, you know. > > -al. > > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 I don't see any brand name on my unit. All those that I've seen in the OM medical suppliers is the same unit, made predominately out of high-impact plastic. I might add too that I chipped off a corner of the unit once and superglued it back on. It hasn't caused any problems. This is the unit that I have. I might have purchased it here too, but I can't remember, nor do I have any interest in sales from this or any capsule filling manufacturer or distributor: *http://tinyurl.com/ypofam* This one looks similar, it appears that the tray into which one would pour the extract powder is larger, which prevents spillage. *http://tinyurl.com/2xubvn* Now, there is a model/brand that is a step up in quality, size options, and cost. This is marketed to compounding pharmacies and researchers in pharmacology. I just can't locate it after 25 minutes at Google. It is made of stainless steel and comes in 100 and 200 capsule sizes. As I recall, it retailed in the $700 range. It is roughly the same as the models above, but presumably can go into a dishwasher. It also had some design features that also prevent spillage of the extract powders. On 9/29/07, fbernall <fbernall wrote: > > Hi Al, any brand names or url to visit? > > Thanks, > > Fernando > > --- In <%40>, > " Al Stone " <al wrote: > > > > > On 9/28/07, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: > > > > > > I'm looking for recommendations on an encapsulation machine. I'm > > > familiar with the ones that sell for around 20 - 50 dollars, but they > > > take as long as 15 - 20 minutes to make 100 capsules. I'd like to find > > > something more efficient, but not a large industrial-scale machine. > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > - Bill Schoenbart > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 , " Al Stone " <al wrote: Thanks, Al. I've been looking at this one by ProFill. What is the general consensus regarding the use of gelatin or vegetarian capsules? Thanks, Fernando > > This one looks similar, it appears that the tray into which one would pour > the extract powder is larger, which prevents spillage. > *http://tinyurl.com/2xubvn* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 , " fbernall " <fbernall wrote: > > , " Al Stone " <al@> wrote: Fernando, Can you provide a link? - Bill > Thanks, Al. > > I've been looking at this one by ProFill. > > What is the general consensus regarding the use of gelatin or > vegetarian capsules? > > Thanks, > > Fernando > > > > > > This one looks similar, it appears that the tray into which one > would pour > > the extract powder is larger, which prevents spillage. > > *http://tinyurl.com/2xubvn* > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Al, Which suppliers carry that one that makes 100 capsules in 5-7 minutes? I have found a really nice one, but it costs over 800 dollars. It has an online video that shows how to use it: http://capsuleconnection.com/index.php? option=com_content & task=view & id=22 & Itemid=40 - Bill > The next level up from the plastic 20-50 dollar jobs is the $350- 400 job. > > It makes 100 capsules in 5-7 minutes. Still requires you to stand there, but > if you make a lot of capsules, this will pay for itself really quick. I > wouldn't trade mine in for all the tea in... well, you know. > > -al. > > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 I offer the vegie caps when they're requested. They're a tad more expensive than the gelatin capsules, but that doesn't effect my choice, its really about the patient's preferences. Mostly, I'll offer the vegie caps for religious types who observe kosher laws or something like that. Or, if they're vegan or otherwise leaning in that direction and don't want animal stuff in their capsules. The gel caps are easier to work with. They're slicker and move in and out of the capsule filling apparatus more easily. They're more sturdy too and so when you compress together the flat of caps, they're less likely to buckle in on the ends. That end buckling shouldn't have any effect on clinical efficacy, but it could be more uncomfortable to swallow and of course it looks a little amateurish which I like to avoid. Another question is the use of colored capsules. I use a few different color combos for my formulas. There's a company that advertises in Acupuncture Today that charges something like $18 per 1,000 capsules. I myself get mine from India for $8.50 per 1,000. However I order 20,000 at a time and making the purchase is a huge hassle that includes a Western Union transfer and lots of waiting time while the office workers over there are away at a wedding or can't get to work due to flooding or whatever other problems slow down the process. That being said, if you can anticipate it taking about a month to get the capsules, it isn't a problem, just gotta plan ahead. This Indian company also includes some sort of " bacteria and virus free " declaration. I'm not 100% sure I can vouch for the cleanliness of the capsules, which is one of my concerns, but by the same token, how many of us really ask that question of any of our capsule suppliers? How do the caps get from the manufacturer and into that plastic bag full of 1,000 pieces. Who knows who's hands or factories those capsules have passed through? Incidentally, the instructions on those better manual capsule filling machines can be spotty coming from the manufacturer. Here's something I found this morning that may help: http://www.capsuleworld.com/profill_quick_start_guide.htm And here are some other fillers and the materials from which they're made (useful information if you want to know how to clean your machine): http://www.capsuleworld.com/materials_used.htm -al. On 9/29/07, fbernall < fbernall wrote: > > --- In <%40>, > " Al Stone " <al wrote: > Thanks, Al. > > I've been looking at this one by ProFill. > > What is the general consensus regarding the use of gelatin or > vegetarian capsules? > > Thanks, > > Fernando > > > > > This one looks similar, it appears that the tray into which one > would pour > > the extract powder is larger, which prevents spillage. > > *http://tinyurl.com/2xubvn* > > > > > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Gracias Caballo! Ya' Da' Man! Fernando , " Al Stone " <al wrote: > > I offer the vegie caps when they're requested. They're a tad more expensive > than the gelatin capsules, but that doesn't effect my choice, its really > about the patient's preferences. Mostly, I'll offer the vegie caps for > religious types who observe kosher laws or something like that. Or, if > they're vegan or otherwise leaning in that direction and don't want animal > stuff in their capsules. > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2 wrote: > > , " fbernall " <fbernall@> > wrote: > > > > , " Al Stone " <al@> wrote: > Fernando, > > Can you provide a link? Bill, try this one.. *http://tinyurl.com/2xubvn* Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Thanks Fernando. That's the same one I linked to in a previous email. It looks really nice, but it's over 800 dollars. It might still be worth it, considering all the time it should save. - Bill > > Fernando, > > > > Can you provide a link? > > Bill, try this one.. > > *http://tinyurl.com/2xubvn* > > Fernando > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 There's also a $1,500 machine that is suppose to separate the male/female sides and cap them after filling. There's an ad in acupuncturetoday for it and they have a video you can buy. If you want, contact me off list and I can send it to you if you can't find it. Geoff , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2 wrote: > > I'm looking for recommendations on an encapsulation machine. I'm > familiar with the ones that sell for around 20 - 50 dollars, but they > take as long as 15 - 20 minutes to make 100 capsules. I'd like to find > something more efficient, but not a large industrial-scale machine. > Any ideas? > > - Bill Schoenbart > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 I went ahead and ordered the Profill machine. At 900 dollars with shipping, I'm hoping it lives up to the hype! - Bill , " G Hudson " <crudo20 wrote: > > There's also a $1,500 machine that is suppose to separate the > male/female sides and cap them after filling. There's an ad in > acupuncturetoday for it and they have a video you can buy. If you > want, contact me off list and I can send it to you if you can't find it. > > Geoff > > > , " bill_schoenbart " > <plantmed2@> wrote: > > > > I'm looking for recommendations on an encapsulation machine. I'm > > familiar with the ones that sell for around 20 - 50 dollars, but they > > take as long as 15 - 20 minutes to make 100 capsules. I'd like to find > > something more efficient, but not a large industrial-scale machine. > > Any ideas? > > > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Bill - I'd be interested in a first-hand review of how that one works for you... On a similar note - what size capsules are you (all) using? Presumming you are using granules, how many capsules does it take (of what size) to get to the 10+g/day dosing? J On 10/1/07, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: > > I went ahead and ordered the Profill machine. At 900 dollars with > shipping, I'm hoping it lives up to the hype! > > - Bill > > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 On 10/7/07, Joy Keller <JKellerLAc wrote: > > On a similar note - what size capsules are you (all) using? Presumming > you > are using granules, how many capsules does it take (of what size) to get > to > the 10+g/day dosing? > The industry standard for capsule size is the 500mg Size " 0 " capsules. As for how much is actually in a capsule, it kind of depends on the extract product you're using. Just based on my personal experience with the different powders, I'd say that to make 100 capsules, it takes the following quantities: Evergreen, KPC, and Taiwanese ( " GMP " ) extracts: 45g Bluelight (Tianjiang), E-Fong: 55g Brion: 35g. Brion is the finest, most airy powders of them all. Really difficult to work with in my opinion. They require tamping down multiple times to fit the extract into the capsules, while the heavier brands from mainland China don't require tamping, because they pretty well fill up the capsule tightly when poured in. So, based on the qualities of the herb extract, the quantity within each capsule will be different. 100 caps containing 50g of extract powder means that each capsule gets .5 grams (or 500 milligrams). So, if you're getting 500 mg into each capsule, then it'll take 20 capsules to meet your 10g dose. Problem is, its really difficult to get any kind of compliance for 60 capsules per day. So I start with 5x3 for capsules, or double that amount of straight powders which I prefer nowadays. The powders are cheaper because they don't require my extra labor and a little bit of cost for capsules, but also the patient can handle a larger dosage psychologically, and to a certain extent in their tummies as that number of capsules is uncomfortable for some. Exceptions are the really icky heat clearing herbs like long dan cao and the bitter " huang " herbs. Those I'll sometimes encourage that people use the capsules. As for efficacy, there's little doubt in my mind that the powders are much more potent. Our body's respond immediately to the taste, while in capsules, we have to wait for digestion to take place. Favoring the powders also serves to kind of stimulate a placebo too. The worst the taste, the more that psyche thinks that it must work well. I like to use the powders also because I favor committed patients over looky-loos. That's perhaps not the best business choice, but I would much rather fret over serious patients than those looking to be cool or whatever their motivations may be. -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 > The Profill capsule system/²machine² works very well for encapsulating Custom > Prescriptions. > Crane Herb Pharmacy and Crane-West Herb Pharmacy each uses 4 ³machines². > Cleaning all the parts between prescriptions takes over 15 minutes and the > drying time can be reduced using 70% alcohol. > SOPs(Standard Operating Procedures) within GMPs require decontaminating the > machine between batches. > Liability Insurance requires compliance with GMPs. > > Size ³0² Vegi capsules hold between 285 and 445 mg of KPC ³powder² per capsule > with proper tamping. > (Average KPC ³powder² weight is 330-335 mg per ³0² cap). > So, for a 3 gm/dose prescription, the label will show a dosage between 7 and > 11 caps per dose. > To calculate the weight of powder in a cap : > 1. Weigh the entire bottle (scale accurate to .001). > 2. Deduct [#caps X 93mg(example weight of empty vegi cap shell varies between > 92 and 97mg). > 3. Deduct weight of empty plastic container. > 4. Divide NET weight by #caps in bottle. When #caps will not fit in 1 bottle, the weight of same formula powder will differ between 3-7mg for 2 bottles due to variations in tamping powder into caps. Another big herb powder issue is the blending of various singles and formulas (with different weights and densities) into a homogeneous prescription. Crane uses a Turbula : from Switzerland, it is used in the lab by the pharmaceutical industry (and the cosmetics, explosives and other industries to accurately blend ingredients that vary in weight and density). After 15 minutes of blending, each dose has the same ingredient% that the practitioner defined in their patient¹s formula. We have also identified 6 ³clumpy² herbs that need special attention. Zirconium marbles are put into a bottle to break down the clumps. Zirconium marbles do not chip when they collide in a bottle; unlike, stainless steel marbles. Sampling continues to be a major concern for the FDA in their oversight of minute active pharmaceutical ingredients blended with large amounts of binder and filler : each tablet or capsule is supposed to have the same #mg of active ingredient in each tab/cap. The above issues are relevant to accurate manufacturing of Custom Prescriptions within the guidelines of the new FDA GMPs. In my opinion, the OM community needs to realize that the current ³appropriate training² of practitioners mixing herb prescriptions (for their own patient) will be seen as grossly inadequate by the FDA. Schools (and CEU programs) will need to develop and teach ³Compounding and GMP Protocol² that will provide reasonable safety concerns for the FDA. I believe that the NCCAOM should adequately test practitioners on their knowledge of this protocol. This protocol does not have to be expensive but practitioners will need to be diligent in following these low-tech SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures). Technically, schools, who have more than 20 employees. have to comply with the new GMPs in less than 2 years; practitioners in less than 3 years. What will be the appropriate Forum for concerned practitioners and schools to come together and define these Protocols for raw herb and concentrated ³powder² Custom Prescription compounding? I presume this Forum will need to organized by the AAAOM, CAOMA and NCCAOM. Let¹s define these Protocols before the FDA sets standards that will not be appropriate or financially reasonable. Bill Egloff Crane Herb Co. Crane Herb Pharmacy Crane-West Herb Pharmacy Chinese Herb Product Committee of AHPA Co-Chair > > > > Al Stone : > > The industry standard for capsule size is the 500mg Size " 0 " capsules. > > As for how much is actually in a capsule, it kind of depends on the extract > product you're using. > > Just based on my personal experience with the different powders, I'd say > that to make 100 capsules, it takes the following quantities: > > Evergreen, KPC, and Taiwanese ( " GMP " ) extracts: 45g > Bluelight (Tianjiang), E-Fong: 55g > Brion: 35g. > > Brion is the finest, most airy powders of them all. Really difficult to work > with in my opinion. They require tamping down multiple times to fit the > extract into the capsules, while the heavier brands from mainland China > don't require tamping, because they pretty well fill up the capsule tightly > when poured in. > > So, based on the qualities of the herb extract, the quantity within each > capsule will be different. 100 caps containing 50g of extract powder means > that each capsule gets .5 grams (or 500 milligrams). So, if you're getting > 500 mg into each capsule, then it'll take 20 capsules to meet your 10g dose. > > Problem is, its really difficult to get any kind of compliance for 60 > capsules per day. So I start with 5x3 for capsules, or double that amount of > straight powders which I prefer nowadays. The powders are cheaper because > they don't require my extra labor and a little bit of cost for capsules, but > also the patient can handle a larger dosage psychologically, and to a > certain extent in their tummies as that number of capsules is uncomfortable > for some. > > Exceptions are the really icky heat clearing herbs like long dan cao and the > bitter " huang " herbs. Those I'll sometimes encourage that people use the > capsules. > > As for efficacy, there's little doubt in my mind that the powders are much > more potent. Our body's respond immediately to the taste, while in capsules, > we have to wait for digestion to take place. > > Favoring the powders also serves to kind of stimulate a placebo too. The > worst the taste, the more that psyche thinks that it must work well. I > like to use the powders also because I favor committed patients over > looky-loos. That's perhaps not the best business choice, but I would much > rather fret over serious patients than those looking to be cool or whatever > their motivations may be. > > -al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.