Guest guest Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? Thanks! Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Hi Geoff, Oh the wonders of daycare! Below is mostly from my experience as a mom/herbalist, I see some peds in my practice, but not a lot. There are others here w/ more clinical experience, I'm sure. I know this is an herbs listserv, but with my daughter, now almost 4, my primary modality was tuina when she was an infant. If your spouse isn't a practioner, it's also the easiest sell, IMHO. I did both some daily health-maintenance massage, as well as specific protocols when she got sick. Herbs-wise I've used the Kan Gentle Warriors tinctures (although they contain alcohol), Cara Frank's liquids (she's on the listserv, her company is China Herb Co., and she makes some prepared pediatric formulas), as well as raw herbs. Raw herbs are easier than you might think, since you can make them very concentrated and only have to give a little bit. You can also use organic herbs, which isn't always an option in prepared formulations. My daughter never liked the taste of the alcohol, even when I tried to evaporate it (and there's been some discussion on the list that the alcohol can't really be separated out in tinctures, see archives). Now that she's older, she'll actually chew pills, but I never used them when she was a baby, even ground. Pills can have a lot of binders/fillers/etc., which might be an issue too. Also, not to go beyond your initial question, but diet is a big issue for babies. You may want to re-evaluate what she's eating from a Chinese dietetics perspective. Finally (okay, and here's I'm speaking as a mom mostly), remember that babies tend to run higher fevers than adults. 102.5 isn't something to ignore, but it's not as worrisome as it would be in an adult patient. If her shen is good, if her hydration seems okay (tears, pee, good skin tone), I wouldn't get too concerned. Good luck! I know how hard it is to see your own child sick--and to get the emotional detachment necessary to treat her. This is why I think it's easiest to focus on keeping our kids healthy--through good diets, sleep, tuina, etc.--and get some help in treating them when they're sick. Apologies for the long post! --Sarah , " G Hudson " <crudo20 wrote: > > We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her > second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy > would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a > hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and > lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears > and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would > often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask > questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was > 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around > 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just > grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? > > Thanks! > Geoff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Hi Geoff, Blue Poppy has come up with a line of liquid pediatric formulas that are in a glycerine base, rather than alcohol - tastes sweet and goes down easier. I'm sure they would have something for fevers, if you took a look. If she's pulling at her ears, there's a good possibility she has an ear infection. When I was a student intern, one of my supervisors did grind up herbs for a baby with ear infections and fever. She had the mom put the powder on the baby's lips and also in her juice. Personally, I'd prefer not to administer herbs that are uncooked, especially to infants, because they are hard to digest - all the more so when they are raw. G Hudson <crudo20 wrote: We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? Thanks! Geoff Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 You might be interested in this. Monday, February 9, 2004 Posted: 2:07 PM EST (1907 GMT) WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Babies who develop several fevers in their first year are less likely to develop allergies later in life, researchers said on Monday. The study lends support to the so-called hygiene hypothesis, which proposes that unless children's immune systems fight infections early on, they can go into overdrive later and cause allergic reactions. " The hygiene hypothesis is widely recognized but largely unproven, " Kenneth Adams, who oversees asthma research funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a statement. " The findings of this study strengthen the hypothesis and, after more research, could lead to preventative therapies for asthma and allergies. " Writing in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, Christine Johnson of the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, and colleagues examined the medical records of 835 children from birth to age 1. They found that half the children who experienced no fever during their first year had an allergic sensitivity by age 7. Of those who had one fever, 46.7 percent were allergic or sensitive by age 7 but this figure dropped to 31 percent among children who suffered two or more fevers during infancy. In particular, fever-inducing infections involving the eyes, ears, nose or throat appeared to be associated with a lower risk of developing allergies, compared with similar infections that did not result in fevers. " We didn't expect fever to relate with such a consistent effect, " says Christine C. Johnson, Ph.D, M.P.H., senior research epidemiologist of the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, MI, and one of the co-authors of the study. " It also was interesting that the more fevers an infant had, the less likely it was that he or she would be sensitive to allergies. " Dr. Johnson says that more research is needed to establish if early fevers have a direct effect on allergic development in children. Additionally, she and the other authors are working to determine if early exposure to pets as well as high levels of bacteria could also lower allergy risk. " If we can uncover which environmental factors affect allergic development and why, it may be possible to immunize children against these conditions, " she says. _____ On Behalf Of G Hudson Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:09 PM Herbs and infant fevers We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? Thanks! Geoff _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 2954 Spam messages and set aside 1872 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I have brilliant results by using herbal baths. You can use white poplar bark, willow bark or any cooling herb that may be abundatly available nearby. To you know the infant formulaBo Ying? _____ On Behalf Of Sarah Rivkin Saturday, October 20, 2007 7:50 PM Re: Herbs and infant fevers Hi Geoff, Oh the wonders of daycare! Below is mostly from my experience as a mom/herbalist, I see some peds in my practice, but not a lot. There are others here w/ more clinical experience, I'm sure. I know this is an herbs listserv, but with my daughter, now almost 4, my primary modality was tuina when she was an infant. If your spouse isn't a practioner, it's also the easiest sell, IMHO. I did both some daily health-maintenance massage, as well as specific protocols when she got sick. Herbs-wise I've used the Kan Gentle Warriors tinctures (although they contain alcohol), Cara Frank's liquids (she's on the listserv, her company is China Herb Co., and she makes some prepared pediatric formulas), as well as raw herbs. Raw herbs are easier than you might think, since you can make them very concentrated and only have to give a little bit. You can also use organic herbs, which isn't always an option in prepared formulations. My daughter never liked the taste of the alcohol, even when I tried to evaporate it (and there's been some discussion on the list that the alcohol can't really be separated out in tinctures, see archives). Now that she's older, she'll actually chew pills, but I never used them when she was a baby, even ground. Pills can have a lot of binders/fillers/etc., which might be an issue too. Also, not to go beyond your initial question, but diet is a big issue for babies. You may want to re-evaluate what she's eating from a Chinese dietetics perspective. Finally (okay, and here's I'm speaking as a mom mostly), remember that babies tend to run higher fevers than adults. 102.5 isn't something to ignore, but it's not as worrisome as it would be in an adult patient. If her shen is good, if her hydration seems okay (tears, pee, good skin tone), I wouldn't get too concerned. Good luck! I know how hard it is to see your own child sick--and to get the emotional detachment necessary to treat her. This is why I think it's easiest to focus on keeping our kids healthy--through good diets, sleep, tuina, etc.--and get some help in treating them when they're sick. Apologies for the long post! --Sarah @ <%40> , " G Hudson " <crudo20 wrote: > > We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her > second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy > would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a > hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and > lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears > and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would > often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask > questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was > 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around > 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just > grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? > > Thanks! > Geoff > _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 2954 Spam messages and set aside 1872 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Bo Ying is easy to give to kids, as this video shows: Unfortunately, some batches were recently recalled due to high bacterial counts: http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/recalls/reclfull/2006/10afeb2006.h tml - Bill , " Michael Tierra " <mtierra wrote: > > I have brilliant results by using herbal baths. You can use white poplar > bark, willow bark or any cooling herb that may be abundatly available > nearby. To you know the infant formulaBo Ying? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 clipped off the end of the last link. If you click on it and get an error message, just add the letters tml to the end of the address and you'll get there. > Unfortunately, some batches were recently recalled due to high > bacterial counts: > > http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/recalls/reclfull/2006/10afeb2006.h > tml > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I will second the recommendation for Kan's Gentle Warriors tinctures - our 18 month old daughter doesn't mind the alcohol - in fact, she always asks for " More, more " . Maybe she's just a weird kid, but hey, both her parents are OM practitioners! Adam , " G Hudson " <crudo20 wrote: > > We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her > second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy > would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a > hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and > lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears > and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would > often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask > questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was > 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around > 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just > grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? > > Thanks! > Geoff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hey, Adam- Thanks for the laugh about your " weird kid " . Giggle. Adam Schreiber <chinesemed wrote: I will second the recommendation for Kan's Gentle Warriors tinctures - our 18 month old daughter doesn't mind the alcohol - in fact, she always asks for " More, more " . Maybe she's just a weird kid, but hey, both her parents are OM practitioners! Adam , " G Hudson " wrote: > > We started our 5 month old in day care recently and she's had her > second fever in a month. I'm a little nervous about giving herbs, buy > would like to give it a go if I can convince my wife... might be a > hard sale though! I have mostly pill formulas and she's hot and > lethargic and occasionally sweaty. No crying, no pulling at the ears > and she's eating, pooping, and peeing just fine. In an adult I would > often just go to yin qiao or the like, but since I can't ask > questions, I have to make some assumptions. Her temp today was > 102.5 and came down to 99 with tylenol and now is hovering around > 100.5. Does anyone have any experience with their kids? Can you just > grind the herbs up and put them in a little cereal / banana etc? > > Thanks! > Geoff > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Why isn't glycerin or honey the standard for pediatric herbal formulas. Why use alcohol at all? Another question that comes up for me is the drug companies have discovered that simply giving a child or infant a smaller dose of the standard formula does not work for infants. The idea that infants and children are just small adults does not apply. (although the reverse is often too true .... some adults are just big babies!) Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family Santa Cruz, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hello, in my clinic I often treat small children with herbs, mainly in the form of granules mixed with a little sirup and LITTLE water or in the Form of drops, those,maybe similar to those that have been mentioned: alcohol and water extracts, where the alcohol then is evaporated to less than 5 %, and that have been conserved with glycerine, so they are sweet in taste. Both workes very well. For fevers baby tuina has a lot to offer, check any book on it! To prevent them, rubbing on Du 14 with a little oil untill the skin is hot and then covering up is one of many simple but useful methods. Personally I wouldnt use Bo ying for an infant, there are not only bacteria in it but also other stuff you wouldnt want a baby to be eating for a simple fever, like f.ex. scorpion, Arisaema and aconite. I think those should be saved for other situations. greetings Nina Nina Zhao-Seiler Praxis für Traditionelle Chinesische Medizin Wilfriedstrasse 8 CH-8032 Zürich Tel: +41 44 251 1331 Fax: +41 43 243 6990 ninaseiler www.tcmherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks for all the suggestions - sounds like the tincture route is the way to go so I'll check out the blue poppy and kan selections suggested. As a side note, has anyone used Fennel tea for infants? I was parousing a German grocery site and came across this: http://www.germandeli.com/mibafetea.html I assume it's used as we would use xiao hui xiang for digestive upset. Geoff , " Adam Schreiber " <chinesemed wrote: > > I will second the recommendation for Kan's Gentle Warriors tinctures - > our 18 month old daughter doesn't mind the alcohol - in fact, she > always asks for " More, more " . Maybe she's just a weird kid, but hey, > both her parents are OM practitioners! > > Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Glycerine or honey based herb products generally are not very stable. If there's any trace of water in either of these, it eventually ferments and one has either spoiled product or bottles that explode on the shelf in warm weather. Most companies who make honey or glycerin based products add enough alcohol to stabalize their products. You can put the alcoholic tincture in boiling water for a few minuetes to dissipate most of the alcohol. On another note, I've often wondered why there's such a prejudice against the addition of potassium sorbate which is food grade and one of the most benign preservatives I know. Unless anyone out there has any contrary information? Michael Tierra www.planetherbs.com _____ On Behalf Of G Hudson Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:52 PM Re: Herbs and infant fevers Thanks for all the suggestions - sounds like the tincture route is the way to go so I'll check out the blue poppy and kan selections suggested. As a side note, has anyone used Fennel tea for infants? I was parousing a German grocery site and came across this: http://www.germande <http://www.germandeli.com/mibafetea.html> li.com/mibafetea.html I assume it's used as we would use xiao hui xiang for digestive upset. Geoff @ <%40> , " Adam Schreiber " <chinesemed wrote: > > I will second the recommendation for Kan's Gentle Warriors tinctures - > our 18 month old daughter doesn't mind the alcohol - in fact, she > always asks for " More, more " . Maybe she's just a weird kid, but hey, > both her parents are OM practitioners! > > Adam _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 3209 Spam messages and set aside 2023 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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