Guest guest Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 OK granted, but the functions DO appear to be the same. I remember that when I learned about Ding Zhi Wan, Dr. Zhang mentioned that studies had showed that it had raised IQ levels by an average of 10 points, and was used to treat forgetfulness and help concentration. Bensky says that its action is to tonify heart qi and calm the spirit, the indications being apprehensiveness, easily frightened or incessant laughter together with palpitations, with anxiety and forgetfulness. Flaws and Lake list the indications of Bu Wang San as: " Heart spirit restlessness, fright palpitations, insomnia and impaired memory. " I don't see the difference, do you? wrote: Yehuda, I am not sure “what givesâ€, but it is not uncommon for 2 formulas to have the same ingredients but slightly different dosages and have different actions. Just review the SHL for examples. Therefore looking at the original source text probably would give insight into the authors thought process. But not only does Bu Wang San have different dosages (than ding zhi wan) but adds 1 additional ingredient, therefore these are two different formulas. -Jason _____ On Behalf Of yehuda frischman Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:28 AM Re: Bu Wang San Thanks, Jason. Well from the ingredients you list, it is basically the same formula as " Ding Zhi Wan " , with smaller dosages and substituting Fu Shen for Fu Ling. Ding Zhi Wan, BTW comes from Qian Jin Yao Fang (Important Formulas worth 1000 gold), so what gives on the 2 names? Are they just interchangable description of the same thing or what? Here are comparative dosages based on what you list below: Ding Zhi Wan Bu Wang San Ren shen 9 5 Fu ling (shen) 9 5 Shi Chang pu 6 2 Yuan Zhi 6 7 Yehuda @ <%40> , " " wrote: > > Yehuda, > > > > “Bu Wang San†is a traditional formula from “qian jin (åƒé‡`), chapter 14.†One may assume that this is Sun Si-Miao’s <<Important Formulas Worth a Thousand Gold > > Pieces.>>, but not necessarily. I do not have my copy in front of me. Anyone? > > > > I am not sure if “No memory powder†is a good translation, since it is for memory. Maybe better is something like “Do not forget powder†or whatever… but the original ingredients are: > > > > Shi chang pu 2, fu ling 5, fu shen 5, ren shen 5, yuan zhi 7. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > - > > > > _____ > > @ <%40> [@ <%40> ] On Behalf Of yehuda frischman > Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:16 AM > @ <%40> ; TCM > Bu Wang San > > > > Dear Friends, > > In Flaws and Lake's book, " Chinese Medical Psychiatry " , the formula Bu Wang San, (No memory powder) is mentioned in passing for the treatment of insomnia and impaired memory. It is mentioned that among the ingredients are Ren Shen, Yuan Zhi and Shi Chang Pu. My questions are: 1. From whence cometh this formula? 2. What are the other ingredients and dosages and 3. These are the same ingredients as Ding Zhi Wan (minus Fu Ling). Is this just another name for the same formula? > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > > > > > > http://mail. <http://mail. <> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Y, Yes I think they are different formulas that have similar actions. As mentioned before, the best source for differentiation would be the original text to find out what Sun Si-Miao was thinking. - _____ On Behalf Of yehuda frischman Sunday, October 28, 2007 11:32 AM RE: Bu Wang San vs Ding Zhi Wan OK granted, but the functions DO appear to be the same. I remember that when I learned about Ding Zhi Wan, Dr. Zhang mentioned that studies had showed that it had raised IQ levels by an average of 10 points, and was used to treat forgetfulness and help concentration. Bensky says that its action is to tonify heart qi and calm the spirit, the indications being apprehensiveness, easily frightened or incessant laughter together with palpitations, with anxiety and forgetfulness. Flaws and Lake list the indications of Bu Wang San as: " Heart spirit restlessness, fright palpitations, insomnia and impaired memory. " I don't see the difference, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hello Jason and Yehuda, I have two formulary textbooks which list Ding Zhi Wan, and they both say it comes from " Za Bing Yuan Liu Qian Xi Zhu " or " Incisive Light on the Source of Miscellaneous Disease " by Shen Jin Ao in the Qing Dynasty. Does this seem right? The ingredients listed are ren shen, fu ling, fu shen, chang pu, jiang yuan zhi, zhu sha. The function is supplement heart, boost mind, settle timidity, quiet spirit. It is for treating heart qi insufficiency causing the patient to be timid, prone to anger, and restless in bed at night. Regards, Henry , " " wrote: > > Y, > > > > Yes I think they are different formulas that have similar actions. As > mentioned before, the best source for differentiation would be the original > text to find out what Sun Si-Miao was thinking. > > > > - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 FYI: May way has a little article on Ding Zhi San in the last newsletter. Have not read it, just noticed it. It's probably a sales pitch but may have some info. nanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Henry (et al), There are about 10 different Ding Zhi Wan formulas. - _____ On Behalf Of henry_buchtel Monday, October 29, 2007 9:27 AM Re: Bu Wang San vs Ding Zhi Wan Hello Jason and Yehuda, I have two formulary textbooks which list Ding Zhi Wan, and they both say it comes from " Za Bing Yuan Liu Qian Xi Zhu " or " Incisive Light on the Source of Miscellaneous Disease " by Shen Jin Ao in the Qing Dynasty. Does this seem right? The ingredients listed are ren shen, fu ling, fu shen, chang pu, jiang yuan zhi, zhu sha. The function is supplement heart, boost mind, settle timidity, quiet spirit. It is for treating heart qi insufficiency causing the patient to be timid, prone to anger, and restless in bed at night. Regards, Henry @ <%40> , " " wrote: > > Y, > > > > Yes I think they are different formulas that have similar actions. As > mentioned before, the best source for differentiation would be the original > text to find out what Sun Si-Miao was thinking. > > > > - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Oh, that makes sense, I guess the textbooks are saying that they are using the ding zhi wan formula from that particular book... Here is a copy of Qian Jin Fang online, http://www.zhongjing.net.cn/yyfg/dianji/qianjinfang/default1.htm I believe the formula we are talking about is on this page- http://www.zhongjing.net.cn/yyfg/dianji/qianjinfang/14.htm #71. Here it is called bu wang fang, but the ingredients are the same as you mentioned. I agree that it seems to be called something like " don't forget this " formula. I couldn't see any discussion about when to use it. Regards, Henry BTW, fu shen and fu ling come from the same plant and have very similar functions- apparently fu shen is used more to calm the spirit. , " " wrote: > > Henry (et al), > > > > There are about 10 different Ding Zhi Wan formulas. > > > > - > > > > > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of henry_buchtel > Monday, October 29, 2007 9:27 AM > > Re: Bu Wang San vs Ding Zhi Wan > > > > Hello Jason and Yehuda, > > I have two formulary textbooks which list Ding Zhi Wan, and they both > say it comes from " Za Bing Yuan Liu Qian Xi Zhu " or " Incisive Light on > the Source of Miscellaneous Disease " by Shen Jin Ao in the Qing Dynasty. > > Does this seem right? > > The ingredients listed are ren shen, fu ling, fu shen, chang pu, jiang > yuan zhi, zhu sha. The function is supplement heart, boost mind, > settle timidity, quiet spirit. It is for treating heart qi > insufficiency causing the patient to be timid, prone to anger, and > restless in bed at night. > > Regards, > > Henry > > @ <% 40> > , " " > <@> wrote: > > > > Y, > > > > > > > > Yes I think they are different formulas that have similar actions. As > > mentioned before, the best source for differentiation would be the > original > > text to find out what Sun Si-Miao was thinking. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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