Xiao Chai Hu Tang treats Shaoyang pattern why use it for Taiyang exter

[Guest guest]

Far from me to second guess Bob on his own formula but one could also look at

the

formula not as Xiao Chai Hu but as Xiao Yao Wan (or more precisely Dan Zhi Xiao

Yao Wan)

with the blood deficiency elements juiced up and instead of internal heat,

external

invasion. The Blood then becomes a force in fortifying Qi and Kidney and the

Chai Hu is to

clear heat, raise/upbear Qi but not neccesarily out of the Shao Yang.

There is also the question of half interior half exterior which if I remember

correctly is Yi

Ban Yi Ban meaning in between, or neither exterior or interior. Then the Shao

Yang

differenciation becomes more fluid.

 

any more comments out there?

 

doug

, Steve Sterling <acusteve1 wrote:

>

> Hi Everybody,

>

> Blue Poppy has a formula called Cold Quell which is based on a combination

of Xiao

Chai Hu Tang + Si Wu Tang with the addition of ban lan gen, lian qiao, jin yin

hua, xuan

shen, niu bang zi and jie geng http://www.bluepoppy.com/store/h_coldquell.cf

>

> Xiao Chai Hu Tang is a Zhang Zhong-jing's Shan Han Lun (Treatise on Damage

[Due to]

Cold) disease formula. My understanding of the use of this formula is in the

treatment of

Shao yang pattern disease which is considered half exterior half interior,

between the

greater yang exterior (Tai yang) and the yang brightness interior (Yang ming).

When the

pathogen enters the Shao yang division, it inhibits the pivot mechanism and the

right and

evil Qi struggle without either being able to overcome the other. This produces

the main

signs are alternating aversion to cold & heat effusion, fullness in the chest,

rib-side

distention, taciturnity (reserved speach), lack of appetite, etc.

>

> Cold Quell formula is indicated for the treatment of a wind heat external

invasion

exterior pattern in a person with a righteous Qi vacuity (both Qi & Xue xu) and

liver

depression Qi Stagnation, with or without phlegm nodulation and/or heat toxins.

(The

presence of the Si Wu Tang addition reinforces the tonify blood function.)

>

> A wind heat external invasion is associated with simulataneous Heat effusion

+ Chills

with Heat effusion predominate, yellow tongue coating and a rapid, superficial

pulse. The

Shao yang pattern presents with an alternating aversion to cold & heat effusion,

(a white

tongue coating that may be slippery on one-side only) and possibly a wiry pulse.

>

> If the disease presentation doesn't match the Shao yang pattern then why

would we

include the Xiao Chai Hu Tang in a formula to treat this pattern? (I'm not

saying that it is

wrong, I want to understand the rationale for using it. I've read the

references for this in A

Handbook of Menstrual Diseases in by Bob Flaws and I'm still

unclear).

I've seen some literature substantiating the use of this formula from a western

principle

based on individual herb function.

>

> I would recommend to everyone who hasn't done so already to think about this

because it is a good hearbalist exercise. I have an idea how it works but I

would like to

hear other practitioner's unbiased views before I voice my own.

>

> Thank you,

> Steve Sterling, L.Ac.

> www.WebLAc.com

>

>

>

>

> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it

now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Group,

 

 

 

I thought that XCHT + ban lan gen etc. was an approach that was en vogue a

few years ago (maybe late 80's?) for treating ganmao, based on some

pharmacological approach.. I imagine Bob's formula is based on some research

article(s), I could be wrong though.

 

 

 

Another common product that seems odd to me is " cold Snap, " It has a similar

theme. It contains:

 

 

 

Forsythia, Lonicera, Tang Kuei, Phragmites, Articum, Soja, Bamboo Leaves,

Peony, Platycodon, Buplerum, Scute, Cnidium, Ginseng, Rehmannia, Licorice,

Jujube, Pinellia Ginger, Schizonepeta, Mentha, Corn Starch, Excipient.

 

 

 

I personally have never liked it, but some patients swear by it.

 

 

 

One of the arguments for including si wu tang is that our population of

patients is deficient and needs tonification to fight of the pathogen. I

personally do not find this true clinically. Patients may be tired and

" stressed " , but it is not usually from deficiency. There is usually

accumulation and stagnation behind many seemingly deficient patients. Of

course one cannot generalize as all types walk through the door. However, I

(and my colleagues) treat oodles of ganmao, and do not commonly include

tonification methods, especially in the initial stages. There are though

some exceptions. Furthermore, I have seen, quite a few times, patients

create lingering pathogens from taking Cold Snap. I think it has the

potential to not fully release the exterior and evict the pathogen.

 

 

 

On a side note: Wasn't there a paradigm publications " article " that was

released a few years ago that was used to demonstrate how often the top 500

Chinese characters were used. I think it was an excerpt on gui zhi tang + si

wu tang and ma huang tang + si wu tang.. (or something like that?) Does

anyone know where this was from or have it?

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:14 AM

 

Re: Xiao Chai Hu Tang treats Shaoyang pattern why use it for

Taiyang exter

 

 

 

Far from me to second guess Bob on his own formula but one could also look

at the

formula not as Xiao Chai Hu but as Xiao Yao Wan (or more precisely Dan Zhi

Xiao Yao Wan)

with the blood deficiency elements juiced up and instead of internal heat,

external

invasion. The Blood then becomes a force in fortifying Qi and Kidney and the

Chai Hu is to

clear heat, raise/upbear Qi but not neccesarily out of the Shao Yang.

There is also the question of half interior half exterior which if I

remember correctly is Yi

Ban Yi Ban meaning in between, or neither exterior or interior. Then the

Shao Yang

differenciation becomes more fluid.

 

any more comments out there?

 

doug

@ <%40>

, Steve Sterling <acusteve1 wrote:

>

> Hi Everybody,

>

> Blue Poppy has a formula called Cold Quell which is based on a combination

of Xiao

Chai Hu Tang + Si Wu Tang with the addition of ban lan gen, lian qiao, jin

yin hua, xuan

shen, niu bang zi and jie geng http://www.bluepopp

<http://www.bluepoppy.com/store/h_coldquell.cf> y.com/store/h_coldquell.cf

>

> Xiao Chai Hu Tang is a Zhang Zhong-jing's Shan Han Lun (Treatise on Damage

[Due to]

Cold) disease formula. My understanding of the use of this formula is in the

treatment of

Shao yang pattern disease which is considered half exterior half interior,

between the

greater yang exterior (Tai yang) and the yang brightness interior (Yang

ming). When the

pathogen enters the Shao yang division, it inhibits the pivot mechanism and

the right and

evil Qi struggle without either being able to overcome the other. This

produces the main

signs are alternating aversion to cold & heat effusion, fullness in the

chest, rib-side

distention, taciturnity (reserved speach), lack of appetite, etc.

>

> Cold Quell formula is indicated for the treatment of a wind heat external

invasion

exterior pattern in a person with a righteous Qi vacuity (both Qi & Xue xu)

and liver

depression Qi Stagnation, with or without phlegm nodulation and/or heat

toxins. (The

presence of the Si Wu Tang addition reinforces the tonify blood function.)

>

> A wind heat external invasion is associated with simulataneous Heat

effusion + Chills

with Heat effusion predominate, yellow tongue coating and a rapid,

superficial pulse. The

Shao yang pattern presents with an alternating aversion to cold & heat

effusion, (a white

tongue coating that may be slippery on one-side only) and possibly a wiry

pulse.

>

> If the disease presentation doesn't match the Shao yang pattern then why

would we

include the Xiao Chai Hu Tang in a formula to treat this pattern? (I'm not

saying that it is

wrong, I want to understand the rationale for using it. I've read the

references for this in A

Handbook of Menstrual Diseases in by Bob Flaws and I'm

still unclear).

I've seen some literature substantiating the use of this formula from a

western principle

based on individual herb function.

>

> I would recommend to everyone who hasn't done so already to think about

this

because it is a good hearbalist exercise. I have an idea how it works but I

would like to

hear other practitioner's unbiased views before I voice my own.

>

> Thank you,

> Steve Sterling, L.Ac.

> www.WebLAc.com

>

>

>

>

> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try

it now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

 

Because most Western patients with a cold or flu suffer from both a

righteous vacuity (which allowed for catching the cold in the first

place) and the external evil contraction. Therefore, they suffer from

both a righteous internal vacuity and a replete external contraction.

I have written extensively on all this, explaining the rationale

behind the formula as a whole as well as the role of each individual

med in the Rx. If you go to www.bluepoppy.com, you can read all about

this. I have been using this combo for almost 25 years. The key to

getting near miraculous results is taking eight caps per time, 3-5

times per day at the first sing of an acute sore throat as the

harbinger of coming down with a cold.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

Look in the files section of CHA - Characters1.pdf and Characters2.pdf

 

Look in the Files section of CHA. They are halfway down the page, clearly marked

2 files

described as 500 characters etc.... Posted by Bob Felt using the name rfaultson.

> Doug

>

>

>

> -m, " " <@> wrote:

> > On a side note: Wasn't there a paradigm publications " article " that was

> > released a few years ago that was used to demonstrate how often the top 500

> > Chinese characters were used. I think it was an excerpt on gui zhi tang + si

> > wu tang and ma huang tang + si wu tang.. (or something like that?) Does

> > anyone know where this was from or have it?

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> > a

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug,

 

Xiao Chai Hu Tang contains: chai hu, huang qin, ban xia, sheng jiang,

ren shen, zhi gan cao, da zao

and Si Wu Tang contains: shu di huang, bai shao, dang gui,

chuang xiong

vs

Dan Zhi Xiao Yao San contains: chai hu, dang gui, bai shao, bai zhu, fu ling,

zhi gan cao, wei jiang, bo he + mu dan pi & zhi zi

The herbs in bold are common to the XCHT + SWT and the DZXYS.

 

Other than the chai hu, bai shao and dang gui I'm not seeing much similiarity

between the two formulas.

In DZXYS the chief herb chai hu relieves Liver constriant, the deputies dang

gui & bai shao together nourish blood & soften edginess resulting from liver

constraint. The DZXYS is indicated for Liver constraint with Spleen deficiency

that transforms into heat which results in irritability " fan " , etc. not the same

thing as the indications for Cold Quell which is for the treatment of a wind

heat external invasion exterior pattern in a person with a righteous qi vacuity

and liver depression qi stagnation. There may also be phlegm nodulation and/or

heat toxins.

 

The actual ingredients in the Cold Quell formula are:

Radix Isatidis Seu Baphicacanthi (Ban Lan Gen)

Fructus Forsythiae Suspensae (Lian Qiao)

Flos Lonicerae Japonicae (Jin Yin Hua)

Radix Scrophulariae Ningpoensis (Xuan Shen)

uncooked Radix Rehmanniae (Sheng Di)

Radix Ligustici Wallichii (Chuan Xiong)

Radix Scutellariae Baicalensis (Huang Qin)

Radix Bupleuri (Chai Hu)

Radix Codonopsitis Pilosulae (Dang Shen)

Rhizoma Pinelliae Ternatae (Ban Xia)

Fructus Zizyphi Jujubae (Da Zao)

uncooked Rhizoma Zingiberis (Sheng Jiang)

Fructus Arctii Lappae (Niu Bang Zi)

Radix Albus Paeoniae Lactiflorae (Bai Shao)

Radix Angelicae Sinensis (Dang Gui)

mix-fried Radix Glycyrrhizae (Gan Cao)

Radix Platycodi Grandiflori (Jie Geng)

 

with ingredients from XCHT in bold, SWT underlined, Pu Ji Xiao du Yin

highlighted in yellow

This a quote (taken out of context) from a newletter that a collegue wrote,

" I am enclosing a product description card for one of my best selling

products, Cold Quell. It is very effective for the initial onset of the most

common cold presentation and is a great one to keep around " .

So I say to myself " hmmm, what's in this Cold Quell " and I go to the Bluepoppy

website: http://www.bluepoppy.com/store/h_coldquell.cfm

 

and I see in the product description:

 

" This formula is a combination of two of the most famous formulas in Chinese

herbal medicine. Xiao Chai Hu Tang comes from Zhang Zhong-jing’s Shan Han Lun

(Treatise on Damage [Due to] Cold). Si Wu Tang comes from the Tai Ping Hui Min

He Ji Chu Fang (Tai Ping [Era] Imperial Grace Formulary), a famous formulary

published in the Song dynasty. "

 

and so I'm thinking ... Xiao Chai Hu Tang + Si Wu Tang for external attack of

Wind-Heat ???

 

But, now when I look at the actual ingredients in the Cold Quell formula the

XCHT + SWT are secondary to the first six herbs and I see a stronger resemblence

to the core backbone of the formula Pu Ji Xiao Du Yin (Universal Disperse Toxin

Cool-Decoction) with the additition of jin yin hua (which pairs with lian qiao

in another popular Wind-Heat formula

Yin Qiao San) minus: huang lian, bo he, jiang can, ma bo chen pi and sheng

ma.

 

When I read further about the product description on the Bluepoppy website it

says:

" In terms of disease diagnosis, this formula is for common cold and epidemic

influenza with possible bronchitis and especially in women as opposed to men,

and even more especially perimenstrually. However, if the patient’s pattern

conforms, this formula may be taken by men and women alike and regardless of

phase in menstrual cycle. For instance, this formula is also often indicated for

postpartum fevers and flus ... "

 

so now I see this makes more sense. Cold Quell is more suited for Wind-Heat

attack with underlying blood deficiency and liver Qi stagnation with the

addition of the XCHT + SWT to handle the latter.

 

Perhaps I'm reading more into it but, I think there is more to it than that

....

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

wrote:

Far from me to second guess Bob on his own formula but one could also

look at the

formula not as Xiao Chai Hu but as Xiao Yao Wan (or more precisely Dan Zhi Xiao

Yao Wan)

with the blood deficiency elements juiced up and instead of internal heat,

external

invasion. The Blood then becomes a force in fortifying Qi and Kidney and the

Chai Hu is to

clear heat, raise/upbear Qi but not neccesarily out of the Shao Yang.

There is also the question of half interior half exterior which if I remember

correctly is Yi

Ban Yi Ban meaning in between, or neither exterior or interior. Then the Shao

Yang

differenciation becomes more fluid.

 

any more comments out there?

 

doug

, Steve Sterling <acusteve1 wrote:

>

> Hi Everybody,

>

> Blue Poppy has a formula called Cold Quell which is based on a combination of

Xiao

Chai Hu Tang + Si Wu Tang with the addition of ban lan gen, lian qiao, jin yin

hua, xuan

shen, niu bang zi and jie geng http://www.bluepoppy.com/store/h_coldquell.cf

>

> Xiao Chai Hu Tang is a Zhang Zhong-jing's Shan Han Lun (Treatise on Damage

[Due to]

Cold) disease formula. My understanding of the use of this formula is in the

treatment of

Shao yang pattern disease which is considered half exterior half interior,

between the

greater yang exterior (Tai yang) and the yang brightness interior (Yang ming).

When the

pathogen enters the Shao yang division, it inhibits the pivot mechanism and the

right and

evil Qi struggle without either being able to overcome the other. This produces

the main

signs are alternating aversion to cold & heat effusion, fullness in the chest,

rib-side

distention, taciturnity (reserved speach), lack of appetite, etc.

>

> Cold Quell formula is indicated for the treatment of a wind heat external

invasion

exterior pattern in a person with a righteous Qi vacuity (both Qi & Xue xu) and

liver

depression Qi Stagnation, with or without phlegm nodulation and/or heat toxins.

(The

presence of the Si Wu Tang addition reinforces the tonify blood function.)

>

> A wind heat external invasion is associated with simulataneous Heat effusion +

Chills

with Heat effusion predominate, yellow tongue coating and a rapid, superficial

pulse. The

Shao yang pattern presents with an alternating aversion to cold & heat effusion,

(a white

tongue coating that may be slippery on one-side only) and possibly a wiry pulse.

>

> If the disease presentation doesn't match the Shao yang pattern then why would

we

include the Xiao Chai Hu Tang in a formula to treat this pattern? (I'm not

saying that it is

wrong, I want to understand the rationale for using it. I've read the references

for this in A

Handbook of Menstrual Diseases in by Bob Flaws and I'm still

unclear).

I've seen some literature substantiating the use of this formula from a western

principle

based on individual herb function.

>

> I would recommend to everyone who hasn't done so already to think about this

because it is a good hearbalist exercise. I have an idea how it works but I

would like to

hear other practitioner's unbiased views before I voice my own.

>

> Thank you,

> Steve Sterling, L.Ac.

> www.WebLAc.com

>

>

>

>

> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it

now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve et al,

 

 

 

I think another important question to ask is, how appropriate it is to

nourish (esp. blood) in gan maos. We should ask, how deficient is our

patient population? How does this compare to China? What about China in the

60's or in Li Dong-Yuan's time? Clearly there are times in Chinese history

(as above) that China had very little food and the population was stricken

with poverty and ill-health (lots of spleen qi xu). How did China treat gan

mao during these times and how do we think this compares to our culture now?

 

 

 

To be clear, I am not picking a beef with Bob's cold-quell. I am suggesting

we look into the status of our population and find out the roots, thinking,

methodology of such approaches for treating ganmao (i.e. cold quell and cold

snap.) I am curious, are these based on modern research? IS there a lineage

of thought that supports this approach? Actually maybe more important is

just to notice the differences between their approach and mainstream CM

thought.

 

 

 

Therefore it seems useful to look at what the modern / pre-modern /

classical literature and case records say in regard to treating ganmao. XCHT

+ SWT is recommended for ganmao with menstruation. Otherwise, in the case

records and literature I have found very few cases of ganmao (especially

early stage) treated in such a manner. (what have others found?) For

example, in regard to supplementation (i.e. Ginseng or sheng di), one does

see it in ganmao conditions. It seems not too occur often. Usually the

commentary makes a big deal about it, and it is usually only 1 or 2 herbs.

The patients are usually QUITE deficient, i.e. elderly or post-partum (as

Bob's article suggests.) In these situations one still sees the primarily

thrust to release the exterior. One should note the formulas, ren shen bai

du san (1 tonic), cong bai qi wei tang (contains mai dong + sheng di). My

reading is more traditionally based. Even the modern doctors I study have

classical roots. I am curious about the modern usage of XCHT to treat

ganmao. Since this is not an approach that I utilize (and would like to

learn more) does anyone have some commentary on this?

 

 

 

CM theory would suggest that in early stages of wind attack one should

" diffuse the Lungs with acrid scattering medicinals. " I have no idea about

cold-quell clinically, but my beef with cold-snap is that it does not do

this enough for the general population. People take it for any type of

" cold " in the early stages. In cold-snap's defense, the SHL states that if

one has blood exhaustion then one should not use the sweating method. The

question is how blood deficient we are as a population? Comments? But it is

my opinion that not releasing the exterior (or diffusing the Lungs) in the

early stage while using cold-bitter medicinals has a tendency to lock in

pathogens. I have seen this over and over with cold-snap. One should note

the latest issue of " The Lantern " where Jack Schaefer discusses the creation

of lurking pathogens with an incorrect approach (one problem was using ban

lan gen in the early stages). This is quite controversial, because I have

seen famous herbalists in China do this in modern times. Does anyone know if

this has any classical roots, or is this just based on modern research>?

 

 

 

Ideas in practice are constantly evolving and changing, sometimes for the

better, sometimes for the worse. Maybe we have come upon a new way to

treating ganmao. Either way, getting a sense of where these formulas come

from is helpful in understanding them and the real life clinic. Thanks for

bringing up this topic (Steve?).. However, as Steve points out, I do not

find it helpful to look at these formulas as XCHT + SIWUTANG because I am

not aware of strategies to treat early stage ganmao that utilize these

formulas or methods for the general population. Therefore, does Bob or

someone have some articles, research, or case studies (from China) that use

or discuss this method that they could share?

 

 

 

One final note: In general, evaluating clinical efficacy of beginning stage

cold treatments is problematic. Many times if we are getting sick, we just

do not get sick. It is common to believe that our " not getting sick " is a

result of whatever we did or took that " prevented it " , instead of factoring

in our own ability to actually fight of the cold.

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of Steve Sterling

Friday, November 30, 2007 11:41 PM

 

Re: Xiao Chai Hu Tang treats Shaoyang pattern why use it for

Taiyang exter

 

 

 

Hi Doug,

 

Xiao Chai Hu Tang contains: chai hu, huang qin, ban xia, sheng jiang,

ren shen, zhi gan cao, da zao

and Si Wu Tang contains: shu di huang, bai shao, dang gui,

chuang xiong

vs

Dan Zhi Xiao Yao San contains: chai hu, dang gui, bai shao, bai zhu, fu

ling, zhi gan cao, wei jiang, bo he + mu dan pi & zhi zi

The herbs in bold are common to the XCHT + SWT and the DZXYS.

 

Other than the chai hu, bai shao and dang gui I'm not seeing much

similiarity between the two formulas.

In DZXYS the chief herb chai hu relieves Liver constriant, the deputies dang

gui & bai shao together nourish blood & soften edginess resulting from liver

constraint. The DZXYS is indicated for Liver constraint with Spleen

deficiency that transforms into heat which results in irritability " fan " ,

etc. not the same thing as the indications for Cold Quell which is for the

treatment of a wind heat external invasion exterior pattern in a person with

a righteous qi vacuity and liver depression qi stagnation. There may also be

phlegm nodulation and/or heat toxins.

 

The actual ingredients in the Cold Quell formula are:

Radix Isatidis Seu Baphicacanthi (Ban Lan Gen)

Fructus Forsythiae Suspensae (Lian Qiao)

Flos Lonicerae Japonicae (Jin Yin Hua)

Radix Scrophulariae Ningpoensis (Xuan Shen)

uncooked Radix Rehmanniae (Sheng Di)

Radix Ligustici Wallichii (Chuan Xiong)

Radix Scutellariae Baicalensis (Huang Qin)

Radix Bupleuri (Chai Hu)

Radix Codonopsitis Pilosulae (Dang Shen)

Rhizoma Pinelliae Ternatae (Ban Xia)

Fructus Zizyphi Jujubae (Da Zao)

uncooked Rhizoma Zingiberis (Sheng Jiang)

Fructus Arctii Lappae (Niu Bang Zi)

Radix Albus Paeoniae Lactiflorae (Bai Shao)

Radix Angelicae Sinensis (Dang Gui)

mix-fried Radix Glycyrrhizae (Gan Cao)

Radix Platycodi Grandiflori (Jie Geng)

 

with ingredients from XCHT in bold, SWT underlined, Pu Ji Xiao du Yin

highlighted in yellow

This a quote (taken out of context) from a newletter that a collegue wrote,

" I am enclosing a product description card for one of my best selling

products, Cold Quell. It is very effective for the initial onset of the most

common cold presentation and is a great one to keep around " .

So I say to myself " hmmm, what's in this Cold Quell " and I go to the

Bluepoppy website: http://www.bluepopp

<http://www.bluepoppy.com/store/h_coldquell.cfm> y.com/store/h_coldquell.cfm

 

and I see in the product description:

 

" This formula is a combination of two of the most famous formulas in Chinese

herbal medicine. Xiao Chai Hu Tang comes from Zhang Zhong-jing's Shan Han

Lun (Treatise on Damage [Due to] Cold). Si Wu Tang comes from the Tai Ping

Hui Min He Ji Chu Fang (Tai Ping [Era] Imperial Grace Formulary), a famous

formulary published in the Song dynasty. "

 

and so I'm thinking ... Xiao Chai Hu Tang + Si Wu Tang for external attack

of Wind-Heat ???

 

But, now when I look at the actual ingredients in the Cold Quell formula the

XCHT + SWT are secondary to the first six herbs and I see a stronger

resemblence to the core backbone of the formula Pu Ji Xiao Du Yin (Universal

Disperse Toxin Cool-Decoction) with the additition of jin yin hua (which

pairs with lian qiao in another popular Wind-Heat formula

Yin Qiao San) minus: huang lian, bo he, jiang can, ma bo chen pi and sheng

ma.

 

When I read further about the product description on the Bluepoppy website

it says:

" In terms of disease diagnosis, this formula is for common cold and epidemic

influenza with possible bronchitis and especially in women as opposed to

men, and even more especially perimenstrually. However, if the patient's

pattern conforms, this formula may be taken by men and women alike and

regardless of phase in menstrual cycle. For instance, this formula is also

often indicated for postpartum fevers and flus ... "

 

so now I see this makes more sense. Cold Quell is more suited for Wind-Heat

attack with underlying blood deficiency and liver Qi stagnation with the

addition of the XCHT + SWT to handle the latter.

 

Perhaps I'm reading more into it but, I think there is more to it than that

....

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

<taiqi (AT) taiqi (DOT) <taiqi%40taiqi.com> com> wrote:

Far from me to second guess Bob on his own formula but one could also look

at the

formula not as Xiao Chai Hu but as Xiao Yao Wan (or more precisely Dan Zhi

Xiao Yao Wan)

with the blood deficiency elements juiced up and instead of internal heat,

external

invasion. The Blood then becomes a force in fortifying Qi and Kidney and the

Chai Hu is to

clear heat, raise/upbear Qi but not neccesarily out of the Shao Yang.

There is also the question of half interior half exterior which if I

remember correctly is Yi

Ban Yi Ban meaning in between, or neither exterior or interior. Then the

Shao Yang

differenciation becomes more fluid.

 

any more comments out there?

 

doug