Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Hi Treshell, & All, Treshell wrote: > Are any of you treating (anorexia) with any success? The young girl is > 15 as of Oct 29th, is 5'7 " tall, weighs 105 on a good day, which on > her is very thin to the point of being able to easily see all of her > bones in outline. Is a way over achiever- both in mental work and > physical endurance and musical. 7th degree black belt plus a 3rd > degree black belt in the Korean style, She loves competition although > her instructor has not let her compete for the last 5 months due to > muscle waste. She plays concert piano, expert with horses and also on > a swim team. Has many friends and is always the leader in her class > activities. Class president that sort of thing. Lives in a big city > (Washington DC) is Latino and Irish with the bone structure of The > Columbian ancestry of the father, Has never made less then an A, At 15 > is taking all 12th grade and first year college courses, has been > fighting with parents and counselors on the anorexia problem for over > a year, been to western doctors. Weight has dropped enough that she > has no periods and hasn't for over 6 months, her back has grown a lot > of thick hair to keep the body warm even though she feels hot. She is > hot, pulse is fast, thin, tongue is peeled on the edges and thin on > the rest and red, knows when she has gained as little as 2 oz., her > temper is worse at night. She thinks she is fat. Her main complaint is > that she has burning pain in her stomach All food feels too heavy. > Thoughts and places to point me toward. I have not treated this > problem before------ Thank you, treshell IMO, severe anorexia nervosa is a major indication for urgent and expert pschiatric help. I have tried to help one very good friend with this condition, but with no success. She was a beautiful, talented and sensitive girl. She was lesbian but her parents rejected that relationship, and thereby rejected her. She had severe hormonal problems (with amenorrhoea, as in your case) and had no self-confidence (though she was loved and admired greatly by those who knew her). I did my best (with acupuncture and general counselling) to help her but the poor girl eventually killed herself with an overdose. Herbal medicine and acupuncture may be of some help in anorexia nervosa, but, IMO, expert pschiatric help is essential for such cases. All involved with the patient should aim at building her self-image (self-respect and self- confidence). Finally, IMO, the family of anorexic people needs analysis and counselling. If there is dysfunction in the family, or the patient feels rejected by close family members, this must be addressed and corrected. I wish you the best of luck in this case, and my thoughts / prayer focus on the sufferer. May she want to live and love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 I was going to say something similar. AN is a medically complex condition requiring a team treatment approach: psych counseling, medical, nutrition. AOM can be an extremely important cog in this team and can make the other elements work more effectively than they might w/o AOM, given a motivated patient. But it cannot be sole treatment for anorexia anymore than it can be sole treatment for addictions. If someone wants you to tx them *instead* of a team medical approach just say no. This isn't ethical, it's not even close to standard of practice for eating disorder treatment. Specialists have learned a lot about treating ED's effectively in the last several decades. Anorexic folks are very Type A, and often set out to invent their own tx plans instead of seeking expert tx. Statistics I recall are from a few years ago, but at that time, many more anorexics died of suicide than inanation. You both deserve expert support of respective kinds in this long-term journey. Eating disorders can be labor-intensive to work with and also very rewarding. My prayers are also with her and with you. Lynn --- < wrote: > Hi Treshell, & All, > > Herbal medicine and acupuncture may be of some help in anorexia nervosa, but, IMO, expert pschiatric help is essential for such cases. All involved with the patient should aim at building her self-image (self-respect and self-confidence). > > Finally, IMO, the family of anorexic people needs analysis and counselling. If there is dysfunction in the family, or the patient feels rejected by close family members, this must be addressed and corrected. > > I wish you the best of luck in this case, and my thoughts / prayer focus on the sufferer. May she want to live and love. > ~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~ Pain is Normal - Be Weird! Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. Licensed and Board Certified Acupuncturist PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378 503.474.8876 lynndetamore ______________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think it is important to second these caveats. I know I haven't had any luck in treating this disorder, and there is no Chinese language information on it that I am aware of. People do die from this condition. So we have to be very careful. I totally agree that treating this condition requires very specialized training, experience, and support. Bob , " J. Lynn Detamore " <lynndetamore wrote: > > I was going to say something similar. AN is a > medically complex condition requiring a team > treatment approach: psych counseling, medical, > nutrition. AOM can be an extremely important cog > in this team and can make the other elements work > more effectively than they might w/o AOM, given a > motivated patient. But it cannot be sole > treatment for anorexia anymore than it can be > sole treatment for addictions. > > If someone wants you to tx them *instead* of a > team medical approach just say no. This isn't > ethical, it's not even close to standard of > practice for eating disorder treatment. > Specialists have learned a lot about treating > ED's effectively in the last several decades. > Anorexic folks are very Type A, and often set out > to invent their own tx plans instead of seeking > expert tx. > > Statistics I recall are from a few years ago, but > at that time, many more anorexics died of suicide > than inanation. You both deserve expert support > of respective kinds in this long-term journey. > Eating disorders can be labor-intensive to work > with and also very rewarding. My prayers are also > with her and with you. > > Lynn > > --- < wrote: > > > Hi Treshell, & All, > > > > Herbal medicine and acupuncture may be of some > help in anorexia nervosa, but, IMO, expert > pschiatric help is essential for such cases. All > involved with the patient should aim at building > her self-image (self-respect and > self-confidence). > > > > Finally, IMO, the family of anorexic people > needs analysis and counselling. If there is > dysfunction in the family, or the patient feels > rejected by close family members, this must be > addressed and corrected. > > > > I wish you the best of luck in this case, and > my thoughts / prayer focus on the sufferer. May > she want to live and love. > > > > ~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~ > > Pain is Normal - Be Weird! > > Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > Licensed and Board Certified Acupuncturist > PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378 > 503.474.8876 > lynndetamore > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 > I think it is important to second these caveats. I know I haven't had > any luck in treating this disorder, and there is no Chinese language > information on it that I am aware of. People do die from this > condition. So we have to be very careful. I totally agree that > treating this condition requires very specialized training, > experience, and support. > > Bob Thank You all, Yes they are taking her to other western med folks of all kinds. They are getting ready to try a new mental health program. There is also a place in UT that specializes in athletes they are trying to get help from as well. Anyone special anyone knows of in the DC area. Treshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I've had patients who work as eating disorder therapists and occasionally they send me their patients. One anorexic patient's mother was also anorexic. It's amazing what this patient was thinking of including going off her diabetic medication. I knew I blew it when she asked if my treatment would increase her appetite and I said I hoped so. First and last treatment for her. The only clue to TCM in all this was in Rossi's Shen book when she talks about Po disorders. The body's reflection of itself being disordered. But this is only theory and I agree that the only way to treat this is not to treat it specifically and refer out. Doug , " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001 wrote: > > I think it is important to second these caveats. I know I haven't had > any luck in treating this disorder, and there is no Chinese language > information on it that I am aware of. People do die from this > condition. So we have to be very careful. I totally agree that > treating this condition requires very specialized training, > experience, and support. > > Bob > > , " J. Lynn Detamore " > <lynndetamore@> wrote: > > > > I was going to say something similar. AN is a > > medically complex condition requiring a team > > treatment approach: psych counseling, medical, > > nutrition. AOM can be an extremely important cog > > in this team and can make the other elements work > > more effectively than they might w/o AOM, given a > > motivated patient. But it cannot be sole > > treatment for anorexia anymore than it can be > > sole treatment for addictions. > > > > If someone wants you to tx them *instead* of a > > team medical approach just say no. This isn't > > ethical, it's not even close to standard of > > practice for eating disorder treatment. > > Specialists have learned a lot about treating > > ED's effectively in the last several decades. > > Anorexic folks are very Type A, and often set out > > to invent their own tx plans instead of seeking > > expert tx. > > > > Statistics I recall are from a few years ago, but > > at that time, many more anorexics died of suicide > > than inanation. You both deserve expert support > > of respective kinds in this long-term journey. > > Eating disorders can be labor-intensive to work > > with and also very rewarding. My prayers are also > > with her and with you. > > > > Lynn > > > > --- <@> wrote: > > > > > Hi Treshell, & All, > > > > > > Herbal medicine and acupuncture may be of some > > help in anorexia nervosa, but, IMO, expert > > pschiatric help is essential for such cases. All > > involved with the patient should aim at building > > her self-image (self-respect and > > self-confidence). > > > > > > Finally, IMO, the family of anorexic people > > needs analysis and counselling. If there is > > dysfunction in the family, or the patient feels > > rejected by close family members, this must be > > addressed and corrected. > > > > > > I wish you the best of luck in this case, and > > my thoughts / prayer focus on the sufferer. May > > she want to live and love. > > > > > > > ~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~ > > > > Pain is Normal - Be Weird! > > > > Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > Licensed and Board Certified Acupuncturist > > PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378 > > 503.474.8876 > > lynndetamore@ > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > > Find them fast with Search. > http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Hello all, I agree with everyone that Anorexia Nervosa is complex and multilayered but I have had some real successes with it (some failures as well). Here are some of my thoughts and ways I have worked to provide the best chance for a positive effect. The first thing to recognize is that the feeling of fatness is not purely in the mind. When a patient has not been eating for a long period of time or has been eating strangely or vomiting a lot after eating, the digestive system shuts down and becomes blocked. There is often a profound feeling of fullness or bloating after eating the smallest amount of food. When there is bloating and pressure, one has the physical experience of being fat that has nothing to do with weight gain. In addition, there is, in every case I have seen, a very poor appetite with an aversion to food. It is very hard to eat when there is bloating, fullness and a poor appetite. It simply feels terrible to eat. So, the desire to not eat is not purely mental but also related to physical sensations. Secondly, because of the above, I have actually primarily worked with this condition as an excess - in spite of the obvious deficient signs and symptoms. I have worked with the diagnosis of food stasis, Qi depression and glomus as an initial approach with success in quite a few cases. If a patient is very weak, I combine this the with Cinnamon type formulas such as Xiao Jian Zhong Tang, Gui Zhi Tang or Gui Zhi Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang - though the emphasis is on the excess. Thirdly, my goal in this illness, as well as in most weight loss patients, is to improve the appetite. Most weight loss patients actually eat less than the average weighing people in my experience. Also, most weight loss patients have a poor appetite, often not eating until they are weak because the normal healthy appetite is not present. Finally, I council these patients and weight loss patients about how a good appetite helps you loose unhealthy weight and feel good, which is true. A good appetite is the sign of a strong metabolism that can transform food an fluids into energy. A poor appetite is an indication that transformation is poor and that accumulations can develop. Many patients really " get " this and become excited when their appetite begins to return - knowing that they are now processing foods better. For the anorexic patient, when they are able to take in foods without becoming distended, they do become more attracted to food. I use acupuncture to promote the appetite as well and mostly to calm the spirit. Hope this helps, Sharon Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 On Dec 6, 2007 8:19 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote: > If a patient is very weak, I combine this the with > Cinnamon type formulas such as Xiao Jian Zhong Tang, Gui Zhi Tang or > Gui Zhi Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang - though the emphasis is on the excess. > I've also seen late-stage anorexia manifest as a yin deficiency heat type presentation. When they begin to regain their health, they actually start to get night sweats. I think of this as a hot pan into which you're dropping drops of water. The first thing the water does is bead up and sizzle into steam. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 This is all good for a person who's healthy in the attic, but anorexia nervosa sufferers are not healthy. This devastating illness has nothing to do with food; It's an ego disorder, and as TCM practitioners we're not equipped to treat it. I dare say that it's worse than alcoholism, but like alcoholism very few people recover from it; and for recovery to take place the patient necessarily needs to experience a level of consciousness that's 540 or higher, at which point the disease resolves itself without any input from the sufferer: for The Field takes care of it. Like alcoholism, that's the only way to possible recovery. There's no way around it. Hope, won't do. Will, won't do. Motherly or fatherly love, won't do. Hospital remanding, won't do. Forced feeding won't do. Herbal medicine, for sure won't do, and needling CV12, CV9, SP9, ST40, and SHENMEN, I promise, won't do. The only hope, if there's one, is to engage in a 12 step programme with psychiatric help within it. This is no guaranty however, that the patient will recover, but it's the only hopeful avenue conducive to a higher level of consciousness, where as previously stated, at the level of 540 or higher, the disease resolves itself in The Field. A thoughtful and collegial suggestion, is that we stay as far away from them as we possibly can; for their sake, and ours. Kind regards, Gloria sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote: Hello all, I agree with everyone that Anorexia Nervosa is complex and multilayered but I have had some real successes with it (some failures as well). Here are some of my thoughts and ways I have worked to provide the best chance for a positive effect. The first thing to recognize is that the feeling of fatness is not purely in the mind. When a patient has not been eating for a long period of time or has been eating strangely or vomiting a lot after eating, the digestive system shuts down and becomes blocked. There is often a profound feeling of fullness or bloating after eating the smallest amount of food. When there is bloating and pressure, one has the physical experience of being fat that has nothing to do with weight gain. In addition, there is, in every case I have seen, a very poor appetite with an aversion to food. It is very hard to eat when there is bloating, fullness and a poor appetite. It simply feels terrible to eat. So, the desire to not eat is not purely mental but also related to physical sensations. Secondly, because of the above, I have actually primarily worked with this condition as an excess - in spite of the obvious deficient signs and symptoms. I have worked with the diagnosis of food stasis, Qi depression and glomus as an initial approach with success in quite a few cases. If a patient is very weak, I combine this the with Cinnamon type formulas such as Xiao Jian Zhong Tang, Gui Zhi Tang or Gui Zhi Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang - though the emphasis is on the excess. Thirdly, my goal in this illness, as well as in most weight loss patients, is to improve the appetite. Most weight loss patients actually eat less than the average weighing people in my experience. Also, most weight loss patients have a poor appetite, often not eating until they are weak because the normal healthy appetite is not present. Finally, I council these patients and weight loss patients about how a good appetite helps you loose unhealthy weight and feel good, which is true. A good appetite is the sign of a strong metabolism that can transform food an fluids into energy. A poor appetite is an indication that transformation is poor and that accumulations can develop. Many patients really " get " this and become excited when their appetite begins to return - knowing that they are now processing foods better. For the anorexic patient, when they are able to take in foods without becoming distended, they do become more attracted to food. I use acupuncture to promote the appetite as well and mostly to calm the spirit. Hope this helps, Sharon Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Sharon - Thank you for your response. I too have had some successes and some failures with AN. It definitely is a complex condition that requires a team approach to treatment but I cannot agree with you more about the need to improve the appetite and to explain about the metabolism. I would not shy away from these patients - rather I would encourage them to create a team of people to help them and I think that as a member of that team with herbs and acupuncture we can be very important. Marnae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Sharon and Marnae, I can appreciate your comments, especially about not shying away. The confusion I've had is to what degree an anorexic sees the problem. Generally, the patients I've seen haven't gotten past that their excess weight is the problem. As I said, improving the appetite doesn't resolve that. Then I am not sure why they are seeing me with that view. Can you say anything about your approach that made some cases a success or others not so? Was it your treatment or was it the individual? Thanks, Doug , marnae ergil <marnae wrote: > > Sharon - > > Thank you for your response. I too have had some > successes and some failures with AN. It definitely is > a complex condition that requires a team approach to > treatment but I cannot agree with you more about the > need to improve the appetite and to explain about the > metabolism. I would not shy away from these patients > - rather I would encourage them to create a team of > people to help them and I think that as a member of > that team with herbs and acupuncture we can be very > important. > > Marnae > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Sharon and Marnae, I can appreciate your comments, especially about not shying away. The confusion I've had is to what degree an anorexic sees the problem. Generally, the patients I've seen haven't gotten past that their excess weight is the problem. As I said, improving the appetite doesn't resolve that. Then I am not sure why they are seeing me with that view. Can you say anything about your approach that made some cases a success or others not so? Was it your treatment or was it the individual? Thanks, Doug Interesting question Doug. In the cases I've had that have really helped the patient get out of the anorexic cycle there has been one consistent element: the patient came on their own volition. When a patient has come with a parent it has been more difficult to work successfully. Perhaps the desire to heal was not strong enough for the patient herself. I have definetely felt that when the environment that helped creat the pathology or was too intimately involved with it(often a parent) was coming along to the clinic it was much more difficult to " join up " with the patient in a therapeutic alliance. I have learned to have a parent drop the young woman off and leave or have them come on their own. In addition, if the patient is still living in the offensive environment, treatment is next to impossible. One woman got much better in spite of living in the offending environment. When she went to college she improved much much more - stopping her behavior altogether. When she would come home for holidays she would feel the need to return to her addiction and we would work together to help her get through in the healthiest way possible. Though there has often been a team of people working, not always. One of the great benefits of our medicine is how we can stay out of our patient's psychology. I have found that these patients are so relieved to have their pathology seen as stuck food, depressive Qi, Kidney deficiency or what ever it happens to be. They are used to having their most private lives perused by all manner of helpers. For them to keep their family history private as long as they want is a relief for them. Also, they are greatly relieved that there is a physiological reason why they " feel fat " and that is not just that they are nuts. I can reassure them that the medicine will help them " feel right " in their bodies. It amazes me that a huge dysphoria that seems like a stone- like belief system can be untangled. Finally, a key aspect is having really good diagnostic skills. In the beginning I was so limited in this area and, over the years, as I have developed more clarity and confidence I can make the subtle differentiations needed to really give a focused treatment. Each person is so different! Best Sharon Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Sharon, great reply, just what I was looking for. " One of the great benefits of our medicine is how we can stay out of our patient's psychology. " - great statement - Something I try to impress on my students yet have forgotten more than once in my own practice. I don't want to set off a firestorm here but I wonder if " ED's " are addictions or better stated as Compulsive/Obsessive behaviors and is there a difference? Doug , sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote: > > Sharon and Marnae, I can appreciate your comments, especially about > not shying away. > The confusion I've had is to what degree an anorexic sees the problem. > Generally, the > patients I've seen haven't gotten past that their excess weight is the > problem. As I said, > improving the appetite doesn't resolve that. Then I am not sure why > they are seeing me > with that view. Can you say anything about your approach that made > some cases a > success or others not so? Was it your treatment or was it the > individual? > > Thanks, > Doug > > Interesting question Doug. > > In the cases I've had that have really helped the patient get out of > the anorexic cycle there has been one consistent element: the > patient came on their own volition. When a patient has come with a > parent it has been more difficult to work successfully. Perhaps the > desire to heal was not strong enough for the patient herself. I have > definetely felt that when the environment that helped creat the > pathology or was too intimately involved with it(often a parent) was > coming along to the clinic it was much more difficult to " join up " > with the patient in a therapeutic alliance. I have learned to have a > parent drop the young woman off and leave or have them come on their > own. > > In addition, if the patient is still living in the offensive > environment, treatment is next to impossible. One woman got much > better in spite of living in the offending environment. When she went > to college she improved much much more - stopping her behavior > altogether. When she would come home for holidays she would feel the > need to return to her addiction and we would work together to help her > get through in the healthiest way possible. > > Though there has often been a team of people working, not always. > One of the great benefits of our medicine is how we can stay out of > our patient's psychology. I have found that these patients are so > relieved to have their pathology seen as stuck food, depressive Qi, > Kidney deficiency or what ever it happens to be. They are used to > having their most private lives perused by all manner of helpers. For > them to keep their family history private as long as they want is a > relief for them. > > Also, they are greatly relieved that there is a physiological reason > why they " feel fat " and that is not just that they are nuts. I can > reassure them that the medicine will help them " feel right " in their > bodies. It amazes me that a huge dysphoria that seems like a stone- > like belief system can be untangled. > > Finally, a key aspect is having really good diagnostic skills. In the > beginning I was so limited in this area and, over the years, as I have > developed more clarity and confidence I can make the subtle > differentiations needed to really give a focused treatment. Each > person is so different! > > Best > > Sharon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Sharon, I really appreciate your comments about having family drop patients off rather than accompanying them to tx's. I know many psych professionals won't do therapy with anorexics that isn't family therapy, even if it has to be family therapy with one. But " we " aren't qualified to do family therapy. In every case, family dynamics are very complex with folks with anorexia and it can be a significant impediment just to have family there. The only caveat I might add is that ideally we'd have most of the family in tx, but in many cases we would not want to be the sole practitioner for every family member. This would be true as much, and for the same reasons, couples in couples counseling have different therapists they see individually. I very much appreciate your other comments about Chinese medicine medicine and anorexia as well. Doug: " The confusion I've had is to what degree an anorexic sees the problem. " Besides elements Sharon mentioned, part of the answer to your question lies in the patient's weight. Below a certain weight, about 85 lbs or 38 kilos for females of average height, you automatically have a degree of psychosis. At that point, in-depth psychotherapy isn't attempted. When someone is 5'5 " and weighs 75 lbs that kind of psychosis won't be repaired till they gain weight. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Hi Doug, I believe it is perfectly appropriate to call eating disorders addictions - every addiction involves compulsive behavior, and in fact, that is the hallmark. It doesn't matter whether the behavior involves chemicals, foods, or repeated actions (such as shopping or hand-washing); it's all about compulsive avoidance... of something or other. This is so even when there is a " proven " biochemical aspect to the addiction, as all addictions and Obsessive-Compulsive behavior patterns have a biological aspect to them - it isn't all just psychological and habitual. wrote: Sharon, great reply, just what I was looking for. " One of the great benefits of our medicine is how we can stay out of our patient's psychology. " - great statement - Something I try to impress on my students yet have forgotten more than once in my own practice. I don't want to set off a firestorm here but I wonder if " ED's " are addictions or better stated as Compulsive/Obsessive behaviors and is there a difference? Doug , sharon weizenbaum wrote: > > Sharon and Marnae, I can appreciate your comments, especially about > not shying away. > The confusion I've had is to what degree an anorexic sees the problem. > Generally, the > patients I've seen haven't gotten past that their excess weight is the > problem. As I said, > improving the appetite doesn't resolve that. Then I am not sure why > they are seeing me > with that view. Can you say anything about your approach that made > some cases a > success or others not so? Was it your treatment or was it the > individual? > > Thanks, > Doug > > Interesting question Doug. > > In the cases I've had that have really helped the patient get out of > the anorexic cycle there has been one consistent element: the > patient came on their own volition. When a patient has come with a > parent it has been more difficult to work successfully. Perhaps the > desire to heal was not strong enough for the patient herself. I have > definetely felt that when the environment that helped creat the > pathology or was too intimately involved with it(often a parent) was > coming along to the clinic it was much more difficult to " join up " > with the patient in a therapeutic alliance. I have learned to have a > parent drop the young woman off and leave or have them come on their > own. > > In addition, if the patient is still living in the offensive > environment, treatment is next to impossible. One woman got much > better in spite of living in the offending environment. When she went > to college she improved much much more - stopping her behavior > altogether. When she would come home for holidays she would feel the > need to return to her addiction and we would work together to help her > get through in the healthiest way possible. > > Though there has often been a team of people working, not always. > One of the great benefits of our medicine is how we can stay out of > our patient's psychology. I have found that these patients are so > relieved to have their pathology seen as stuck food, depressive Qi, > Kidney deficiency or what ever it happens to be. They are used to > having their most private lives perused by all manner of helpers. For > them to keep their family history private as long as they want is a > relief for them. > > Also, they are greatly relieved that there is a physiological reason > why they " feel fat " and that is not just that they are nuts. I can > reassure them that the medicine will help them " feel right " in their > bodies. It amazes me that a huge dysphoria that seems like a stone- > like belief system can be untangled. > > Finally, a key aspect is having really good diagnostic skills. In the > beginning I was so limited in this area and, over the years, as I have > developed more clarity and confidence I can make the subtle > differentiations needed to really give a focused treatment. Each > person is so different! > > Best > > Sharon > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 My wife is a psychologist who specializes in treating anorexia. It's helped to give me a little idea of how Western treatment for this disorder goes - which unfortunately isn't very good yet. Even $150k at the Remuda ranch, and still the prognosis is poor. High relapse, and if I remember right, it's the psychological disorder with the highest fatality rate. Doug's earlier comment reminded me of one thing I've learned about people with psychological disorders is - don't be surprised if they don't react like a rational person! That's why it's a psychological disorder. Therefore, trying to explain that eating more is healthy for you to an anorexic patient isn't going to help. It's like trying to win a psychological battle with a child - good luck! With treating Anorexia patients, does it help to think about symptoms common in patients with anorexia? Possible symptoms of hatred of the self-image, constant body checking (you often can see these patients looking in mirrors, running their fingers along their collar line to make sure their clavicle is still sticking out... or running their fingers along their belt line etc), the control issues (the only thing they feel they have control of). I think anorexia is more closely related to anxiety than obsession / compulsion. Just food for thought. Oops - no pun intended. Geoff , < wrote: > > Hi Doug, > > I believe it is perfectly appropriate to call eating disorders addictions - every addiction involves compulsive behavior, and in fact, that is the hallmark. It doesn't matter whether the behavior involves chemicals, foods, or repeated actions (such as shopping or hand-washing); it's all about compulsive avoidance... of something or other. This is so even when there is a " proven " biochemical aspect to the addiction, as all addictions and Obsessive-Compulsive behavior patterns have a biological aspect to them - it isn't all just psychological and habitual. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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