Guest guest Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Regarding the appropriate dosages of granules: I have just recently begun to actually taste the formulas that I'm providing my patients. I recently did a formula that was about 50% ping wei san, 30% digestives, and 20% qi movers including mu xiang for a constipation issue. In my mind, I wanted the ping wei san to be predominant and all others somewhat secondary. Ping wei san has a nice gingery after taste that is quite nice, but when I checked out this formula in my own mouth, I was surprised to taste the mu xiang kind of overpowering everything. I wonder if anybody else makes it a point to taste their formulas as is possible before providing them to the patient? And if so, does taste really matter? I mean, your fu lings and long gus aren't going to have much of a taste in the mouth anyway, but still I think that given that the concentrations are all over the place, and hidden from North American practitioners (due to the use of different labels), it seems like a good idea to kind of check out the taste of these formulas before passing them on to the consumer. Any body else do this? Cara mia, you used to cook professionally, I'll be you can relate with this. Do you taste your granulated formulas? -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Dear " Dr " Al, First of all, though belatedly, mazel tov on the DAOM. May it be the passkey to many heretofore unopened or unopenable doors. I also taste my formulas. A couple of comments about mu xiang: You bet it's strong. I also found a big difference between the quality I got from Chinatown and that which I got from Mayway. First of all, the LA Chinatown variety I got was treated with potassium sulfate, which only adds to the already yuckie taste. So that's one consideration. Remember, like you say, you don't need a lot, but because it is definitely aromatic, you don't want to overcook it either. Why not just use like a couple or 3 of grams of MX along with a like amount of Sha Ren? The fact that SR is acrid and warm (like MX) but instead of being bitter, it's aromatic, should stretch the MX while minimizing that side effect. Whatha think? All the best, Yehuda Al Stone <al wrote: Regarding the appropriate dosages of granules: I have just recently begun to actually taste the formulas that I'm providing my patients. I recently did a formula that was about 50% ping wei san, 30% digestives, and 20% qi movers including mu xiang for a constipation issue. In my mind, I wanted the ping wei san to be predominant and all others somewhat secondary. Ping wei san has a nice gingery after taste that is quite nice, but when I checked out this formula in my own mouth, I was surprised to taste the mu xiang kind of overpowering everything. I wonder if anybody else makes it a point to taste their formulas as is possible before providing them to the patient? And if so, does taste really matter? I mean, your fu lings and long gus aren't going to have much of a taste in the mouth anyway, but still I think that given that the concentrations are all over the place, and hidden from North American practitioners (due to the use of different labels), it seems like a good idea to kind of check out the taste of these formulas before passing them on to the consumer. Any body else do this? Cara mia, you used to cook professionally, I'll be you can relate with this. Do you taste your granulated formulas? -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Al, you guessed right- I have strong feelings on this. And it¹s funny: Will Morris and I were just talking about this very subject as a future lecture. Here is what I believe: flavor IS function. Most powders are too desiccated for me to choose to use them. For me- they lack what I seek out most in food: an aliveness. Qi. Very few of them really taste like themselves. Thus I do not feel that they can be maximally effective. Here¹s the ingredients of PWS: PING WEI SAN Cang Zhu Rhizoma Atractylodis lanceae 9 g Chen Pi Pericarpium Citri reticulatae 6 g Hou Po Cortex Magnoliae officinalis 6 g Zhi Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae uralensis praeparata 3 g Sheng Jiang Rhizoma Zingiberis officinalis recens 3 g Da Zao Fructus Ziziphi jujubae 3 date without even knowing what the formula treats- the flavors ( tastes, sapors) of the herbs tell a story: the monarch is aromatic, the next 2 deputies are fragrant as well. We know for sure that there is damp obstruction because we know the function of aromatic herbs is to penetrate-----something. Like inhaling perfume. It awakens and arouses. The story of the formula gets rounded out when you know the thermal nature of the herbs and the channels that they enter: it¹s warm, it goes to the stomach and lungs. This does not mean that your can¹t get results taking pills: but chew one and see what it tastes like. And I know that thousands of practitioners use powders and get respectable clinical results. That they are convenient. They conform to cGMP standards. Yet to me, it feels like processed food. I don¹t eat it. everyone have a wonderful holiday! Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Six Fishes Healing Arts & President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts 215-772-0770 Cara mia, you used to cook professionally, I'll be you can relate with this. Do you taste your granulated formulas? -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Al, I must say, I am surprised to hear that you only just started tasting formulas. I wonder how many others have not been doing this! I can't imagine not tasting a formula that I was about to give to someone to take. I taste everything I prescribe, except raw formulas of course, although I am often munching on the herbs as I put it together. Perhaps this is not very hygienic, but frankly I love plants and love the process of preparing medicine for others. I feel it is an intricate part of preparing medicines--it makes you a part of the formula in some way. This is also why I do paozhi (preparing medicines with rice wine, baijiu, vinegar, wheat germ, honey, etc.) not only because I believe it the right way to practice Chinese medicine, but because I am imparting my qi on the medicinals. Critical to effective herbal medicine, though is does mean a lot more work. Taste is also critical, I totally agree with you. This is why I find many Chinese medicinals to be inferior to Western medicinals, they simply don't pass the organoleptic test for quality, part of that being its taste. Peace on Earth, Thomas Beijing, China www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 On Dec 24, 2007 5:15 AM, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > Here is what I believe: flavor IS function. > Most powders are too desiccated for me to choose to use them. For me- they > lack what I seek out most in food: an aliveness. Qi. Very few of them > really > taste like themselves. Thus I do not feel that they can be maximally > effective. > As for those herbs with the greatest amount of " qi " I can see this as similar to shen or spirit. I began purchasing fresh fish recently at the locally famous Santa Monica Seafood. Originally, I would go in and ask they guys behind the counter what fish is the best. They would often point to the fish that was also the most appealing visually. It didn't take long for me to figure out that this is something akin to the idea of " spirit " in TCM when we apply that term to say, the tongue's appearance. Tongues and fish with spirit are both (naturally) bright with a clean moisture. There is some bulk to the fish with spirit, they're not flat and deflated but can maintain their own shape somewhat. But taste has spirit too, its just as Cara mentioned, a sense of aliveness or freshness or immediacy or dynamic. But can we ever expect that of the inert minerals? How do you deal with that " organoleptically " ? (nice word!) > > without even knowing what the formula treats- the flavors ( tastes, > sapors) > of the herbs tell a story: the monarch is aromatic, the next 2 deputies > are fragrant as well. We know for sure that there is damp obstruction > because we know the function of aromatic herbs is to > penetrate-----something. Like inhaling perfume. It awakens and arouses. > So, in the case of ping wei san, when you taste a powder, what are you seeking out? I mean, what qualities does an effective formula have on the tongue? I'm thinking that the key word is " balanced " where all of its tastes and (overall) temperature is distinguishable with perhaps more weight given to the aromatics (as presented in ping wei san, would be different with other formulas.) Yehuda, I got a LOT out of the DAOM program. It was flexible enough for me to study what was of interest to me, I have nothing but good things to say about the process and hope that others jump in as well (to whatever DAOM program.) -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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