Understanding Huo4 as a descriptive term used relative to the elimination of phlegm

[Guest guest]

Doug,

 

I believe you are missing the point. As I mentioned, both the Eastland Press

glossary and Wiseman's PD, both use the term " forceful " in their description of

what happens to the phlegm in Huo4 Tan1: Bensky chooses the description,

" dislodges, forcefully removes, " and Wiseman chooses the description, " forceful

elimination of evils such as phlegm. " The common denominator implicit in this

term according to both scholars is a forceful action to get rid of phlegm, and

where it goes when using the term Huo4, doesn't really matter. Therefore, the

descriptions used to theorize where or how phlegm goes when applying the action

of Huo4, such as transforming, or dislodging or vaporizing seem IMO, to be

based on imagination and don't do justice to accurately connote what IS the

relevant quality of the action which is " heroic, " forceful, and reducing.

 

Respectfully,

 

Yehuda

 

wrote:

The problem I have with dislodge is that it suggests that phlegm is a

substance that is moved somewhere else when it is dislodged. It's same

issue as transformed. Transformed into what?

I've never seen phlegm, when properly treated, do anything other

than... well, disappear (vaporize?)

Jason, while we're here, what is the chinese word for scour?

 

Doug

 

, " "

wrote:

>

> Y,

>

>

>

> Dissolve (»í huo) has the meaning of ¡°forcefully eliminating evils,

such as

> phlegm.¡± Hence Bensky translates »í (huo) as ¡°dislodges, forcefully

> removes.¡±

>

>

>

> There is also the phrase ¡°dislodge phlegm and awaken the brain¡± (»í

̵ÐÑÄÔ,

> huo tan xing nao) which has the definition of ¡°transform phlegm and open

> the orifices.¡± This is CM treatment method.

>

>

>

> Bensky lists tian zhu huang, zhu li, dan nan xing, niu huang, shi

chang pu,

> and hou zao all having the ability to dislodge phlegm. All (except for I

> think hou zou) also are said to open the orifices.

>

>

>

> This should give you a good idea of what this phrase means.

>

>

>

> Let me know if you have any questions.

>

>

>

> -

>

>

>

> _____

>

>

> On Behalf Of yehuda

frischman

> Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:35 PM

>

> Re: [Fwd: Re: mechanism for vaporizing phlegm, and

chinese

> term]

>

>

>

> Thank you Eric. Can you explain in more detail the etymology and

> implications of the character/term huo4. I find it very difficult to

grasp

> how vaporize, dislodge and sweep can be viewed as synonyms. Their

> connotations are all so different, the first implying being

transformed from

> liquid to gas, the second implying getting unstuck, and the third

implying

> being moved as it were, like with a broom or a perhaps a parastaltic,

> rhythmic type of motion.

>

> Yehuda

>

> Eric Brand <smilinglotus@ <smilinglotus%40> >

> wrote:

> @ <%40>

> , yehuda frischman

> <@> wrote:

> >

> > How interesting. I wonder why he changed the indication from

> " vaporize " to " dislodge " . Obviously a very different connotation. I

> further wonder what the term or terms were that were used in the

> original Chinese text that Dan Bensky uses as his basis in the two

> editions.

>

> The Chinese term for the action of shi chang pu is often expressed as

> huo4 tan2, this appears to be the action that Bensky is translating as

> " vaporize " or " dislodge. " Wiseman translates the term huo4 tan2 as

> " sweeps phlegm " ; sweeping phlegm is also used by the WHO in their

> English translations for huo4 tan2.

>

> Eric Brand

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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