mechanism for vaporizing phlegm, and chinese term]

[Guest guest]

Z'ev and all,

 

While I like the idea of extracting true yin fluids out of phlegm, it does not

seem possible to me. Comparatively, we do not have the idea that if we

disentangle the stagnant blood existant within blood masses, we will then be

liberating " healthy " blood out of this mess; so why think the moisture inherent

in phlegm can be freed into healthy yin substance? Both phlegm and blood masses

are considered end-products of enduring disease, sort of like toxic waste. We

can coax the body to break these substances down and expel them, but I do not

think we can recycle them into healthy substances. However, we can encourage

the body to produce healthier yin and blood in individuals who have phlegm

and/or blood stasis, and commonly this involves moistening these stubborn

accumulations, in addition to other protocols as necessary.

 

 

 

 

wrote:

I first heard about transforming phlegm into bodily yin fluids at a

Pacific Symposium lecture five years ago, but the speaker had no

source for the idea. I've also debated over this with Sharon

Weizenbaum as well. I've seen nothing in the Chinese medical

literature that claims that phlegm can become body fluids again, and

all of your points are well taken.

 

I also wonder about 'substantial' and 'insubstantial' phlegm ideas.

What are the pinyin and Chinese terms for these? It is not in the

Wiseman dictionary, and I cannot look up the idea in Chinese

dictionaries without pinyin or characters. Phlegm is phlegm, whether

'visible' or not, it is equally impacting to health.

 

 

On Jan 10, 2008, at 10:05 AM, wrote:

 

> I had one more though on this subject.

>

> In conditions of dampness with yin deficiency one usually sees some

> type of

> yin tonics. Therefore I ask, if one could somehow " change " the

> phlegm back

> into yin fluids why would one need to nourish yin in these situations?

>

> Comments?

>

> -

>

> _____

>

>

> On Behalf Of Al Stone

> Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:31 AM

>

> Re: [Fwd: Re: mechanism for vaporizing phlegm, and

> chinese

> term]

>

> On Jan 9, 2008 7:19 PM,

> icinedoc.com>

> wrote:

>

> > I do see though how the term " transform " could mislead people. I

> think

> > there was some idea (CHA?) about damp or phlegm being able to be

> transformed

> > into healthy fluids. I can't say I have ever seen this in Chinese,

> and

> > really only think of transforming phlegm as a general term for the

> > elimination of phlegm. Does anyone know of Chinese source that

> discusses

> the

> > idea of phlegm transforming into something?

> >

>

> I can't point to Chinese language sources, but there are a few

> theories and

> herb functions that kind of pair up to suggest that a few herbs can

> transform a pathological product into a physiological one. It comes

> from the

> definition of one kind of phlegm as " substantial fire " . The

> mechanism for

> production of this kind of phlegm is when heat dries up the yin into

> a thick

> fluid that is called phlegm. So this phlegm isn't secondary to

> dampness or

> an Earth element issue, but rather fire " reducing " (as in cooking a

> broth)

> yin into phlegm.

>

> So, take an herb that clears heat, transforms phlegm, and generates or

> moistens fluids and you've got an herb that effectively transforms

> pathological phlegm into physiological yin. This remains uncomfirmed

> by the

> traditional (human) sources that I work with, but does provide an

> interesting way to think about the use of a couple of herbs that

> come to

> mind such as Chuan Bei Mu (doesn't generate fluids, but good for dry

> cough)

> and Tian Hua Fen.

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>