Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 When you place an order for niu xi - are you getting processed niu xi as in tonify LR/KI, or are you getting fresh niu xi as in blood mover? I have been unable to find a version that specifies which it is on Crane or Kamwo. I want to make sure the tonifying version makes it into my patient's formula. Anyone know what the standard form is? or know more about this? Thanks in advance, Johanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I'm assuming you are asking for the difference between Huai Niu Xi and Chuan Niu Xi. If not specified, then you will get Huai Niu Xi. These are very different herbs and not simply processed or not. Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae is " huai " Niu Xi. Radix Cyathulae is Chuan Niu Xi. Doug , " johanna_herget " <johanna.herget wrote: > > When you place an order for niu xi - are you getting processed niu xi > as in tonify LR/KI, or are you getting fresh niu xi as in blood mover? > I have been unable to find a version that specifies which it is on > Crane or Kamwo. I want to make sure the tonifying version makes it > into my patient's formula. > > Anyone know what the standard form is? or know more about this? > > Thanks in advance, > Johanna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Doug, I think he is referring only to huai niuxi. Unprocessed niuxi breaks blood, however, processed niuxi (i.e. with wine or salt-fried) has a tonifying effect. These are much different actions and one should be clear on what form they have. But I have no idea what Crane or Kamwo sell. Do they not know? - _____ On Behalf Of Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:34 PM Re: niu xi I'm assuming you are asking for the difference between Huai Niu Xi and Chuan Niu Xi. If not specified, then you will get Huai Niu Xi. These are very different herbs and not simply processed or not. Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae is " huai " Niu Xi. Radix Cyathulae is Chuan Niu Xi. Doug @ <%40> , " johanna_herget " <johanna.herget wrote: > > When you place an order for niu xi - are you getting processed niu xi > as in tonify LR/KI, or are you getting fresh niu xi as in blood mover? > I have been unable to find a version that specifies which it is on > Crane or Kamwo. I want to make sure the tonifying version makes it > into my patient's formula. > > Anyone know what the standard form is? or know more about this? > > Thanks in advance, > Johanna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Crane and Kamwo both told me the form they carry is tonifying and that chuan niu xi is moving and contraindicated in pregnancy - this matches the information found in the Materia Medica revised edition. However the " new Bensky " explains it a little differently, and is confusing to me. Unfortunately I am at home and the book is in my office, so I can't copy the exact words... but from memory: niu xi and chuan niu xi have completely separate headings. I'm only talking about niu xi (huai niu xi) here. Under the niu xi heading it states that niu xi is moving and contraindicated for pregnancy, while the cooked form is more tonifying to the Liver and Kidney. It does not state what type of preparation. Further on it mentions wine and salt prepared forms, but the effects didn't seem to match what is written earlier in the heading... The information seems contradictory to the revised edition version, and also to the info Crane and Kamwo gave me (which mimics the revised version). Am I reading the new headings incorrectly? Or is there more to this? Thanks! Johanna , " " wrote: > > Doug, > > > > I think he is referring only to huai niuxi. Unprocessed niuxi breaks blood, > however, processed niuxi (i.e. with wine or salt-fried) has a tonifying > effect. These are much different actions and one should be clear on what > form they have. But I have no idea what Crane or Kamwo sell. Do they not > know? > > > > - > > > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Douglas > Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:34 PM > > Re: niu xi > > > > I'm assuming you are asking for the difference between Huai Niu Xi and > Chuan Niu Xi. If not specified, then you will get Huai Niu Xi. These > are very different herbs and not simply processed or not. > Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae is " huai " Niu Xi. > Radix Cyathulae is Chuan Niu Xi. > Doug > > @ <%40> > , " johanna_herget " > <johanna.herget@> wrote: > > > > When you place an order for niu xi - are you getting processed niu xi > > as in tonify LR/KI, or are you getting fresh niu xi as in blood mover? > > I have been unable to find a version that specifies which it is on > > Crane or Kamwo. I want to make sure the tonifying version makes it > > into my patient's formula. > > > > Anyone know what the standard form is? or know more about this? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Johanna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 OK, I looked at the Bensky. I agree its confusing. According to my herb Gurus here at Emperors they can't figure it out either. According to them (Newman, Chen and Gu) Huai Niu Xi is always raw or is never specified as prepared and they have never heard of it prepared into another state. Is it possible that what we call raw actually has some processing? Hmmm.... Looks like we need to go back to the Chinese sources of Bensky. Doug , " johanna_herget " <johanna.herget wrote: > > Crane and Kamwo both told me the form they carry is tonifying and that > chuan niu xi is moving and contraindicated in pregnancy - this matches > the information found in the Materia Medica revised edition. > > However the " new Bensky " explains it a little differently, and is > confusing to me. Unfortunately I am at home and the book is in my > office, so I can't copy the exact words... but from memory: > > niu xi and chuan niu xi have completely separate headings. I'm only > talking about niu xi (huai niu xi) here. > > Under the niu xi heading it states that niu xi is moving and > contraindicated for pregnancy, while the cooked form is more tonifying > to the Liver and Kidney. It does not state what type of preparation. > Further on it mentions wine and salt prepared forms, but the effects > didn't seem to match what is written earlier in the heading... > > The information seems contradictory to the revised edition version, > and also to the info Crane and Kamwo gave me (which mimics the revised > version). > > Am I reading the new headings incorrectly? > Or is there more to this? > > Thanks! > Johanna > > > > , " " > <@> wrote: > > > > Doug, > > > > > > > > I think he is referring only to huai niuxi. Unprocessed niuxi breaks > blood, > > however, processed niuxi (i.e. with wine or salt-fried) has a tonifying > > effect. These are much different actions and one should be clear on what > > form they have. But I have no idea what Crane or Kamwo sell. Do they not > > know? > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > On Behalf Of Douglas > > > Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:34 PM > > > > Re: niu xi > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you are asking for the difference between Huai Niu Xi and > > Chuan Niu Xi. If not specified, then you will get Huai Niu Xi. These > > are very different herbs and not simply processed or not. > > Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae is " huai " Niu Xi. > > Radix Cyathulae is Chuan Niu Xi. > > Doug > > > > @ <%40> > > , " johanna_herget " > > <johanna.herget@> wrote: > > > > > > When you place an order for niu xi - are you getting processed niu xi > > > as in tonify LR/KI, or are you getting fresh niu xi as in blood mover? > > > I have been unable to find a version that specifies which it is on > > > Crane or Kamwo. I want to make sure the tonifying version makes it > > > into my patient's formula. > > > > > > Anyone know what the standard form is? or know more about this? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Johanna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Can¡¯t say I have any real answers to this dilemma, but here is a quick excerpt that may shed some light: (All of this is in regard to huai niu xi) From the¡¶¸ÙÄ¿¡·: ¡°Niu xi: today only the wine soaked niu xi is used as medicine. If one desires for downward movement then the fresh niu xi should be used. If enriching and tonifying then stone-baked niu xi should be used, perhaps wine-steamed is overused.¡± One also should contemplate why so many books list it in the ¡°regulate blood¡± chapters. Interesting side note: I did a quick search and there was an article on comparing the pesticide residues and heavy metal levels of wine prepared niu xi and (plain) niu xi. Another comparing the pharmacodynamics of the two on mice. - _____ On Behalf Of Friday, January 18, 2008 1:11 PM Re: niu xi OK, I looked at the Bensky. I agree its confusing. According to my herb Gurus here at Emperors they can't figure it out either. According to them (Newman, Chen and Gu) Huai Niu Xi is always raw or is never specified as prepared and they have never heard of it prepared into another state. Is it possible that what we call raw actually has some processing? Hmmm.... Looks like we need to go back to the Chinese sources of Bensky. Doug @ <%40> , " johanna_herget " <johanna.herget wrote: > > Crane and Kamwo both told me the form they carry is tonifying and that > chuan niu xi is moving and contraindicated in pregnancy - this matches > the information found in the Materia Medica revised edition. > > However the " new Bensky " explains it a little differently, and is > confusing to me. Unfortunately I am at home and the book is in my > office, so I can't copy the exact words... but from memory: > > niu xi and chuan niu xi have completely separate headings. I'm only > talking about niu xi (huai niu xi) here. > > Under the niu xi heading it states that niu xi is moving and > contraindicated for pregnancy, while the cooked form is more tonifying > to the Liver and Kidney. It does not state what type of preparation. > Further on it mentions wine and salt prepared forms, but the effects > didn't seem to match what is written earlier in the heading... > > The information seems contradictory to the revised edition version, > and also to the info Crane and Kamwo gave me (which mimics the revised > version). > > Am I reading the new headings incorrectly? > Or is there more to this? > > Thanks! > Johanna > > > > @ <%40> , " " > <@> wrote: > > > > Doug, > > > > > > > > I think he is referring only to huai niuxi. Unprocessed niuxi breaks > blood, > > however, processed niuxi (i.e. with wine or salt-fried) has a tonifying > > effect. These are much different actions and one should be clear on what > > form they have. But I have no idea what Crane or Kamwo sell. Do they not > > know? > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > @ <%40> > > [@ <%40> ] On Behalf Of Douglas > > > Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:34 PM > > @ <%40> > > Re: niu xi > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you are asking for the difference between Huai Niu Xi and > > Chuan Niu Xi. If not specified, then you will get Huai Niu Xi. These > > are very different herbs and not simply processed or not. > > Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae is " huai " Niu Xi. > > Radix Cyathulae is Chuan Niu Xi. > > Doug > > > > @ <%40> > > , " johanna_herget " > > <johanna.herget@> wrote: > > > > > > When you place an order for niu xi - are you getting processed niu xi > > > as in tonify LR/KI, or are you getting fresh niu xi as in blood mover? > > > I have been unable to find a version that specifies which it is on > > > Crane or Kamwo. I want to make sure the tonifying version makes it > > > into my patient's formula. > > > > > > Anyone know what the standard form is? or know more about this? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Johanna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I guess I don't know where that leaves us. I think I'll just stick to the common perceptions of Huai being (more) nourishing and Chuan (more) moving. Doug , " " wrote: > > Can¡¯t say I have any real answers to this dilemma, but here is a quick > excerpt that may shed some light: (All of this is in regard to huai niu xi) > > > > From the¡¶¸ÙÄ¿¡·: ¡°Niu xi: today only the wine soaked niu xi is used as > medicine. If one desires for downward movement then the fresh niu xi should > be used. If enriching and tonifying then stone-baked niu xi should be used, > perhaps wine-steamed is overused.¡± > > > > One also should contemplate why so many books list it in the ¡°regulate > blood¡± chapters. > > > > Interesting side note: I did a quick search and there was an article on > comparing the pesticide residues and heavy metal levels of wine prepared niu > xi and (plain) niu xi. Another comparing the pharmacodynamics of the two on > mice. > > > > - > > > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Douglas > Friday, January 18, 2008 1:11 PM > > Re: niu xi > > > > OK, I looked at the Bensky. I agree its confusing. According to my herb > Gurus here at > Emperors they can't figure it out either. According to them (Newman, Chen > and Gu) Huai > Niu Xi is always raw or is never specified as prepared and they have never > heard of it > prepared into another state. Is it possible that what we call raw actually > has some > processing? Hmmm.... Looks like we need to go back to the Chinese sources of > Bensky. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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