Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I'd like to give a big congratulations to Gabe Fuentes of the CHA list. Gabe recently managed to single-handedly get all of the ACAOM-approved Chinese medicine degrees recognized by the Taiwanese government. This allows graduates from the US to pursue PhDs and other advanced Chinese medical and general degrees in Taiwan, and also allows for educational scholarships. In the past, our schools weren't on their government approved list, but thanks to Gabe's efforts, our degrees are officially recognized and a whole world of advanced opportunities is now open. Thanks Gabe! Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Sounds great Eric. . congratulations, Gabe! On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Eric Brand wrote: > I'd like to give a big congratulations to Gabe Fuentes of the CHA > list. Gabe recently managed to single-handedly get all of the > ACAOM-approved Chinese medicine degrees recognized by the Taiwanese > government. This allows graduates from the US to pursue PhDs and > other advanced Chinese medical and general degrees in Taiwan, and also > allows for educational scholarships. In the past, our schools weren't > on their government approved list, but thanks to Gabe's efforts, our > degrees are officially recognized and a whole world of advanced > opportunities is now open. > > Thanks Gabe! > > Eric Brand > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I'd like to nominate Gabe Fuentes for the first annual " CHA-CHA " award. This is awesome! -al. > > On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Eric Brand wrote: > > > I'd like to give a big congratulations to Gabe Fuentes of the CHA > > list. Gabe recently managed to single-handedly get all of the > > ACAOM-approved Chinese medicine degrees recognized by the Taiwanese > > government. This allows graduates from the US to pursue PhDs and > > other advanced Chinese medical and general degrees in Taiwan, and also > > allows for educational scholarships. In the past, our schools weren't > > on their government approved list, but thanks to Gabe's efforts, our > > degrees are officially recognized and a whole world of advanced > > opportunities is now open. > > > > Thanks Gabe! > > > > Eric Brand > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Eric, That's an excellent news! Many people tried before without success. Maybe Lao Wai still has an edge in Taiwan. :-) Thanks, Gabe! With that, do you know if people with the degrees from these schools are qualified to sit in the national exam for license? Mike L. Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: I'd like to give a big congratulations to Gabe Fuentes of the CHA list. Gabe recently managed to single-handedly get all of the ACAOM-approved Chinese medicine degrees recognized by the Taiwanese government. This allows graduates from the US to pursue PhDs and other advanced Chinese medical and general degrees in Taiwan, and also allows for educational scholarships. In the past, our schools weren't on their government approved list, but thanks to Gabe's efforts, our degrees are officially recognized and a whole world of advanced opportunities is now open. Thanks Gabe! Eric Brand Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 , Mike Liaw <mikeliaw wrote: > With that, do you know if people with the degrees from these schools are qualified to sit in the national exam for license? I think that we will always still need to take the te kao as long as a te kao exists. There are rumors that they are getting rid of the te kao system, but I think there have been unsubstantiated rumors to that effect for some time now. For now, there is still the te kao, a dual exam system. And we would need to take the impossible te kao, so Taiwan remains a place to study, not to practice. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks Eric But like I told you before, it was something that happened in the process of getting my documents recognized and validated in Taiwan. It took two years of doing, and many good friends from CMU, Taida, and the Ministry of Education, helping me. I¡¦m happy that now any graduate from an American OM school that wants to pursue further studies in Taiwan can. When I first came to China Medical University they told me that there would be no chance of me officially studying in any graduate degree program as a graduate of an American school of Oriental Medicine due to Taiwan¡¦s department of education not recognizing US OM degrees. Thank goodness I have selective hearing and a thick skull. Gabe Fuentes In , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > I'd like to give a big congratulations to Gabe Fuentes of the CHA > list. Gabe recently managed to single-handedly get all of the > ACAOM-approved Chinese medicine degrees recognized by the Taiwanese > government. This allows graduates from the US to pursue PhDs and > other advanced Chinese medical and general degrees in Taiwan, and also > allows for educational scholarships. In the past, our schools weren't > on their government approved list, but thanks to Gabe's efforts, our > degrees are officially recognized and a whole world of advanced > opportunities is now open. > > Thanks Gabe! > > Eric Brand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Since they have just terminated jian kao not long ago. I imagine te kao will be there for several years to come. I think being able to sit in for te kao is already an improvement. At least there is that slim possibility :-) Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: , Mike Liaw <mikeliaw wrote: > With that, do you know if people with the degrees from these schools are qualified to sit in the national exam for license? I think that we will always still need to take the te kao as long as a te kao exists. There are rumors that they are getting rid of the te kao system, but I think there have been unsubstantiated rumors to that effect for some time now. For now, there is still the te kao, a dual exam system. And we would need to take the impossible te kao, so Taiwan remains a place to study, not to practice. Eric Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks Ze'V, Al and Mike Mike Regarding the te kao, I heard the last test will be held in 2011 and in order to sit for the te kao you have to sit for the jian kao, which is a qualifier for the Te kao, and the last test for the jian kao was held two years ago. The only way to be able to practice in Taiwan after that is to do the post baccalaureate program in Chinese medicine and that¡¦s if you already have a degree in OM or WM from another country. Gabe > > Since they have just terminated jian kao not long ago. I imagine te kao will be there for several years to come. I think being able to sit in for te kao is already an improvement. > At least there is that slim possibility :-) > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Can one of you explain what the kian and te tests are? Thanks, Doug , " fuentes120 " <fuentes120 wrote: > > Thanks Ze'V, Al and Mike > > > Mike > Regarding the te kao, I heard the last test will be held in 2011 and > in order to sit for the te kao you have to sit for the jian kao, > which is a qualifier for the Te kao, and the last test for the jian > kao was held two years ago. The only way to be able to practice in > Taiwan after that is to do the post baccalaureate program in Chinese > medicine and that¡¦s if you already have a degree in OM or WM from > another country. > Gabe > > > > > Since they have just terminated jian kao not long ago. I imagine > te kao will be there for several years to come. I think being able > to sit in for te kao is already an improvement. > > At least there is that slim possibility :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 In Taiwan, there is a branch of top level government which is responsible for examination matters of the country. (Yes, a branch of government, parallel to Executive, Legislative, etc.! See: http://www.exam.gov.tw/, or http://www.exam.gov.tw/bofteng/index.asp for the English version) The >1000 year tradition of holding national exams is passed down in Taiwan. As far as CM is concerned, there are two routes to become a licensed practitioner: 1) Graduate from a CM University/department in Taiwan or a few named schools in Korea and Japan ==> Take a type of exam specifically for this route, GaoDengKaoShi, or, GaoKao (Advanced Exam) 2) Study without formal degree ==> Take and pass JianDingKaoShi, or JianKao for short ==> Take and pass TeZhongKaoShi (TeKao) ==> go to CMU (where Feng Ye graduated from) for an 18 month training JianDingKaoShi translates to Qualification Determination Exam TeZhongKaoShi translates to Special Kind of Exam This Qualification/Special exam path was initially designed for those who we knowledgeable but didn't have a degree in CM (who could've been a CM doctor in mainland prior to 1949 or a self-studied learner in modern day.) This path is being eliminated by 2011, as Gabe mentioned, with JianKao already stopped a couple of years ago. Gabe's message prompted me to check last night if a US CM graduate could sit in for 1) GaoKao, or 2) TeKao. It turns out to be neither. What Gabe is getting is to just to be able to go to the school, which is under the Education department, not the Exam branch. Mike L. wrote: Can one of you explain what the kian and te tests are? Thanks, Doug , " fuentes120 " <fuentes120 wrote: > > Thanks Ze'V, Al and Mike > > > Mike > Regarding the te kao, I heard the last test will be held in 2011 and > in order to sit for the te kao you have to sit for the jian kao, > which is a qualifier for the Te kao, and the last test for the jian > kao was held two years ago. The only way to be able to practice in > Taiwan after that is to do the post baccalaureate program in Chinese > medicine and that¡¦s if you already have a degree in OM or WM from > another country. > Gabe > > > > > Since they have just terminated jian kao not long ago. I imagine > te kao will be there for several years to come. I think being able > to sit in for te kao is already an improvement. > > At least there is that slim possibility :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hi! Gabe, Congratulation and thanks for the hard work. I have done nursing rotation of OR in China Medical University Hospital in late 80's before I came to the US to study advanced degrees, which included acupuncture and Chinese herbs in TAI. I visit Taiwan every other year. Recently I visited Sunten and KPC companies and factories in Taiwan. Can you give me some details information of your study in China Medical University? I am hoping to study PhD in the future. Now I work full time as an adult nurse practitioner and acupuncturist in Johns Hopkins Community Physician Internal Medicine. In addition, I am studying part time MPH program in Hopkins, and working on the Bravewell Fellowship of Integrative Medicine with Dr. Brian Berman and Dr. Andrew Weil. Hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, Ta-Ya Lee Ta-Ya Lee, MSN, CRNP, MAc, LAc, MBA Johns Hopkins Community Physicians Wyman Park Internal Medicine Phone 410-338-3421 Fax 410-338-3413 Canton Crossing Integrative Medicine 410-522-9950 WARNING: E-mail sent over the Internet is not secure. Information sent by e-mail may not remain confidential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 It is a very difficult exam. I knew people have to go to cram-school to prepare Te Kao. Ta-Ya Lee, MSN, CRNP, MAc, LAc, MBA Johns Hopkins Community Physicians Wyman Park Internal Medicine Phone 410-338-3421 Fax 410-338-3413 Canton Crossing Integrative Medicine 410-522-9950 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hi Ta-Ya Lee If your Taiwanese and want to pursue a PhD at CMU, you would not have any problems as long as you kept your Taiwanese citizenship. The problem is with foreigners. They only offer one slot for foreigners in their PhD program per year at CMU¡¦S Department of Oriental Medicine, and I think all in the past have been Asian students from Japan or Philippines or another East Asian country. As for my personal plans, I am still researching because what I really want to do is research in classical medical literature but the problem is that there are not enough teachers to oversee that sort of research. Within the whole university there are only three that are qualified to proctor students in that sort of research. The main focus here in Taiwan as far as the two universities of Chinese medicine are concerned is scientific research of oriental medicine, the same goes for the mainland. Students at the masters and PhD levels are inundated with tons of western medical courses expanding from statistics to genetics, but there are some really great courses on Shang han lun and other classics as well as OM clinical practice, and also many selective that can be taken from the regular eight year program. I don¡¦t know if this helped but if you have more specific questions let me know. Good luck Gabe Fuentes > > Hi! Gabe, > Congratulation and thanks for the hard work. I have done nursing > rotation of OR in China Medical University Hospital in late 80's before > I came to the US to study advanced degrees, which included acupuncture > and Chinese herbs in TAI. I visit Taiwan every other year. Recently I > visited Sunten and KPC companies and factories in Taiwan. Can you give > me some details information of your study in China Medical University? > I am hoping to study PhD in the future. Now I work full time as an > adult nurse practitioner and acupuncturist in Johns Hopkins Community > Physician Internal Medicine. In addition, I am studying part time MPH > program in Hopkins, and working on the Bravewell Fellowship of > Integrative Medicine with Dr. Brian Berman and Dr. Andrew Weil. > Hope to hear from you soon. > Sincerely, > Ta-Ya Lee > > Ta-Ya Lee, MSN, CRNP, MAc, LAc, MBA > Johns Hopkins Community Physicians > Wyman Park Internal Medicine > Phone 410-338-3421 Fax 410-338-3413 > > Canton Crossing Integrative Medicine > 410-522-9950 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I would like to mention my experience with the examination system in the ROC. I received my Chinese medical training in Taiwan (1992-2005) and have recently moved back to the US, largely in part because I was denied admittance to taking the Chinese medical examinations. A few years back, in the late 1990's, I applied to sit in on the examinations. I believe I was the first non-overseas-Chinese foreigner to ever apply.I applied for the Jian-Ding-kao but was rejected. Their are only 2 qualifications necessary to take the exams: 1. you must be 22 (or was it 21) years old and 2. you must be a ROC citizen. Subsequently a lawyer found a law that stated that foreigners (not including overseas Chinese) can indeed take the Jian-He Kao (this is equivalent to the Te-Kao or second level exam one is allowed to take after passing the Jian-Kao) but without the sections on the Government Constitution and Guo-Wen (Chinese Literature). The Ministry of Examinations and the Ministry of Health both rejected my application for this exam as well, even after appealing the decision twice. In fact, they were not aware of this law until I presented it to them in person. Basically, the ROC government allows Japanese and Koreans to potentially take the exams but not 'foreigners'. Subsequently the Jian-He Kao has been replaced with a Gao-Kao which has the same generally content as the Jian-He Kao but qualifies the successful examinee for Civil Service type job qualifications. This has effectively removed the possibility of 'foreigners' being able to take this or any exam. As has been noted on this list, the Jian-Ding Kao/Te-Kao options have been discarded resulting in a destruction of the apprenticeship-style Chinese medicine training that has been one of the strengths of Taiwan. This path has been extended mostly for people who have already passed the Jian-Ding Kao so that they have a more years to pass the Te-Kao. Regarding the acceptance of academic degrees from the US and other non-Asian countries, hats off to Gabe! Unfortunately, as mentioned by others on this list, there are still little options in Taiwan to pursue advanced study. It also does not allow foreigners to take any of the exams. Even most of the Taiwanese physicians of Chinese medicine end up getting their advanced degrees on the Mainland. One option for those who are academically inclined is to check with non-Chinese medical Universities. Most have somebody who specializes or is interested in Chinese medical anthropology or history. Academia Sinica has a group of scholars which has met regularly to discuss various aspects of non-clinical Chinese medicine. Hope this clarifies some of the issues. Taiwan is a wonderful place to study Chinese medicine, but there are many obstacles presented by the 'system' and the people running the system. As the head of the Chinese medical department at the Taichong College of once told me three years ago: It would be ridiculous to have any foreigners practice Chinese medicine in Taiwan) (loose translation of 'bu-de-liao') Daniel Altschuler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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