Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 This may seem like a dumb question, but why is licorice not in every formula? If it harmonizes a formula, guides it to the 12 channels, protects the stomach, why is it not in everything? Some formulas seem like they would really benefit from it: huang lian jie do tang for instance. Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Six Fishes Healing Arts & President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts 215-772-0770 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Cara, I think this is a good question. However, I think there is a good reason. Gancao is sometimes contradicted for the pattern. I am sure much comes down the practitioners preference, but adding gancao to formulas like sanrentang (IMO) would make little sense. I think a good place to start to understand this question is the Shang Han Lun. As we know Zhang Ji was fond of gan cao (as well as sheng jiang and da zao), however one will notice that many formula do not contain gan cao, and have different combinations of these three herbs. Understanding when he used what helps understand what the herb does and how he thinks about them. I think this is just another level of precision. One could add gancao to every formula, because it tastes good, but it does change the formula and sometimes not in the best way. - _____ On Behalf Of Cara Frank Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:01 AM Gan cao This may seem like a dumb question, but why is licorice not in every formula? If it harmonizes a formula, guides it to the 12 channels, protects the stomach, why is it not in everything? Some formulas seem like they would really benefit from it: huang lian jie do tang for instance. Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Six Fishes Healing Arts & President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts 215-772-0770 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Another issue is that gan cao is contraindicated in some situations, such as disinhibiting dampness through urination, as in zhu ling tang, or in the use of cathartic purgatives such as in shi zao tang. On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:21 AM, wrote: > Cara, > > I think this is a good question. However, I think there is a good > reason. > Gancao is sometimes contradicted for the pattern. I am sure much > comes down > the practitioners preference, but adding gancao to formulas like > sanrentang > (IMO) would make little sense. I think a good place to start to > understand > this question is the Shang Han Lun. As we know Zhang Ji was fond of > gan cao > (as well as sheng jiang and da zao), however one will notice that many > formula do not contain gan cao, and have different combinations of > these > three herbs. Understanding when he used what helps understand what > the herb > does and how he thinks about them. > > I think this is just another level of precision. One could add > gancao to > every formula, because it tastes good, but it does change the > formula and > sometimes not in the best way. > > - > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Cara Frank > Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:01 AM > > Gan cao > > This may seem like a dumb question, but why is licorice not in every > formula? > If it harmonizes a formula, guides it to the 12 channels, protects the > stomach, why is it not in everything? > Some formulas seem like they would really benefit from it: huang > lian jie do > tang for instance. > > Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. > Six Fishes Healing Arts & > President China Herb Company > Director of the Chinese Herb Program > Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts > 215-772-0770 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Licorice is like herbal cortisone. It;s claimed to work by keeping cortisone circulating in the body. In other words it saves cortisone. In any case when you use licorice think cortisone. Its called the 'peacemaker' herb because it buffers any reactions one might have to an herb or a combination. In other words, it lessens possible adverse reactions. On the other hand, it also lessens reaction generally as well as increasing dampness. So while it is the most used CM herb it is also used in low amount as a principle of formulation. Because women, have a propensity towards dampness, generally women are given less licorice than men in formulas. Similarly, I think any sweet including jujube dates, honey etc tend to gear down or modify a formula. They work well with Qi tonics because those are supposed to be classed as 'food grade' herbs and adding sweet only adds to their mild and gently tonifying and nourishing intention. As the peacemaker herb, I've heard of its being used to aid meditation in some Thai monasteries. You can imagine, if you will, a bunch of egg shaped would-be Buddhas, drinking their licorice tea every day, sitting peacefully in their self contained puddle for hours in meditation. -- is this too PI. -- oops! sorry if I've offended anyone. I'm really interested in what biochemical changes if any occur with honey fried licorice? Be very careful of giving it to anyone who is taking cortisone. Michael Tierra www.planetherbs.com _____ On Behalf Of Cara Frank Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:01 AM Gan cao This may seem like a dumb question, but why is licorice not in every formula? If it harmonizes a formula, guides it to the 12 channels, protects the stomach, why is it not in everything? Some formulas seem like they would really benefit from it: huang lian jie do tang for instance. Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Six Fishes Healing Arts & President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts 215-772-0770 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Gan cao is also cautioned for edema and hypertension (long term use) and is incompatible (creates side effects) with hai zao and da ji and antagonized (functions cancelled) with yuan zhi. Henry Lu wrote in Chinese Natural Cures a story about gan cao: (paraphrased): A herbalist went away for a long trip. His wife took care of the patients in his absence. She didn't know any of the herbs, so she tasted all of them. There was one herb that tasted so sweet and made everything taste sweet. She put it in all of the formulas and surprisingly, people gained more energy and wanted more. When the herbalist came back, he learned from his wife and used the herb extensively. He called it " gan cao " because it was so sweet. On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Michael Tierra <mtierra wrote: > Licorice is like herbal cortisone. It;s claimed to work by keeping > cortisone > circulating in the body. In other words it saves cortisone. In any case > when > you use licorice think cortisone. Its called the 'peacemaker' herb because > it buffers any reactions one might have to an herb or a combination. In > other words, it lessens possible adverse reactions. On the other hand, it > also lessens reaction generally as well as increasing dampness. So while > it > is the most used CM herb it is also used in low amount as a principle of > formulation. Because women, have a propensity towards dampness, generally > women are given less licorice than men in formulas. > > Similarly, I think any sweet including jujube dates, honey etc tend to > gear > down or modify a formula. They work well with Qi tonics because those are > supposed to be classed as 'food grade' herbs and adding sweet only adds to > their mild and gently tonifying and nourishing intention. > > As the peacemaker herb, I've heard of its being used to aid meditation in > some Thai monasteries. You can imagine, if you will, a bunch of egg shaped > would-be Buddhas, drinking their licorice tea every day, sitting > peacefully > in their self contained puddle for hours in meditation. -- is this too PI. > -- oops! sorry if I've offended anyone. > > I'm really interested in what biochemical changes if any occur with honey > fried licorice? > > Be very careful of giving it to anyone who is taking cortisone. > > Michael Tierra > www.planetherbs.com > > _____ > > <%40> > [ <%40>\ ] > On Behalf Of Cara Frank > Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:01 AM > <%40> > Gan cao > > This may seem like a dumb question, but why is licorice not in every > formula? > If it harmonizes a formula, guides it to the 12 channels, protects the > stomach, why is it not in everything? > Some formulas seem like they would really benefit from it: huang lian jie > do > tang for instance. > > Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. > Six Fishes Healing Arts & > President China Herb Company > Director of the Chinese Herb Program > Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts > 215-772-0770 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 > > Licorice is like herbal cortisone. I was under the impression that Licorice more resembles aldosterone, and interferes with the natural renin-angiotension regulatory system. This is why it raises blood pressure and causes one to retain dampness. Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Interesting that Gan Cao is contraindicated with Yuan Zhi but the combo is found in the frequently prescribed Gui Pi Wan. David Russell, L.Ac., CMT Russell Family Acupuncture 134 Howard Street Petaluma, CA 94952 707.773.3375 http://www.acuherbal.com On Feb 22, 2008, at 9:06 AM, znelms wrote: > > > > Licorice is like herbal cortisone. > > I was under the impression that Licorice more resembles aldosterone, > and interferes with the natural renin-angiotension regulatory system. > This is why it raises blood pressure and causes one to retain > dampness. > > Zach > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 , " David Russell, L.Ac. " <dave wrote: > > Interesting that Gan Cao is contraindicated with Yuan Zhi but the > combo is found in the frequently prescribed Gui Pi Wan. Gan cao is traditionally said to clash with yuan hua (genkwa flower), not yuan zhi (polygala root). However, gan cao and yuan hua are used together topically to treat frostbite. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Gan cao *antagonizes *Yuan zhi, which means that it can *reduce or cancel or fight* with the effects of yuan zhi. A friend of mine says that " antagonizes " means that it can cancel not only the effect but also the side-effects. So, Gan cao cancels both the effects and side effects of Yuan zhi. *Canceling effects: (opposite actions)* Gan cao moistens the lungs and stops coughing while, Yuan zhi expels phlegm from the lungs to treat cough (especially if treated with honey). Gan cao may cause edema with overdose or overuse while, Yuan zhi is a diuretic which can treat edema (Chen, Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology pg.767) *Canceling side effects: * If Yuan zhi is soaked in a decoction of Gan cao overnight and then dried the next day, then Yuan zhi's side effect of gastric irritation can be alleviated (Chen, pg 766) The other way that Yuan zhi's side effect can be treated is by taking out the pith inside. Although Gan cao antagonizes Yuan zhi, this may be desirable in certain instances; especially to reduce side-effects and to accentuate Yuan zhi's calming shen and opening orifices actions (Gui pi tang) instead of its action of reducing phlegm in the Lung. Gan cao antagonizes Yuan zhi and is incompatible with Yuan hua, Gan sui, Da ji and Hai zao. (pg 324 Bensky and Gamble Materia Medica 2nd ed) K. On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: > --- In <%40>, > " David Russell, L.Ac. " > > <dave wrote: > > > > Interesting that Gan Cao is contraindicated with Yuan Zhi but the > > combo is found in the frequently prescribed Gui Pi Wan. > > Gan cao is traditionally said to clash with yuan hua (genkwa flower), > not yuan zhi (polygala root). However, gan cao and yuan hua are used > together topically to treat frostbite. > > Eric > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 , " " <johnkokko wrote: > > Gan cao *antagonizes *Yuan zhi, which means that it can *reduce or cancel or > fight* with the effects of yuan zhi. > > A friend of mine says that " antagonizes " means that it can cancel not only > the effect but also the side-effects. > > So, Gan cao cancels both the effects and side effects of Yuan zhi. I'm not so sure what you mean by " antagonizes, " I guess this is again a language/term use issue. Originally someone posted that the two were incompatible, which often is used to say that they have a " clashing relationship " (xiang fan). This is not the case, that's all I'm trying to say. Many herbs reduce each others' toxicity and many herbs have opposing but complementary actions. None of the main Chinese materia medicas indicate that gan cao and yuan zhi share one of the traditional 7 medicinal relationships, no matter what we want to call them in English. They do have complementary and opposing natures, but I was just trying to clarify that they aren't traditionally said to be incompatible. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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