Michael Tierra signed off the group

[Guest guest]

Michael has decided to sign off the group, so there is no need to

reply to his previous comments.

 

- Bill

[Guest guest]

I know how difficult it can be to operate from a old-school grass-roots kind

of herbal paradigm when communicating with academics and authors.

 

Still, this group has inspired me to raise the bar on a number of fronts.

While being right is great fun, being wrong is probably more valuable in the

long run.

 

-al.

 

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:44 AM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2

wrote:

 

> Michael has decided to sign off the group, so there is no need to

> reply to his previous comments.

>

> - Bill

>

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think Michael understands that he was trying to communicate with

people who didn't speak his language. He's more interested in

discussing old-school techniques and herbs than the classics, and his

perspective is more Eclectic Barefoot Doctor than Shang Han Lun

Scholar. So he decided to move on when he got a chilly reception. He's

a little thin-skinned too, so he felt disrespected, even when it

wasn't intended. I think he made some good points about avoiding

dogmatic attachment to the classics, but I also think it is important

to have a group where people who study the original Chinese texts can

share their views. That's what helps us to keep expanding our

understanding of Chinese medicine. This group does that job very well.

 

- Bill Schoenbart

 

 

 

, " Al Stone " <al wrote:

>

> I know how difficult it can be to operate from a old-school

grass-roots kind

> of herbal paradigm when communicating with academics and authors.

>

> Still, this group has inspired me to raise the bar on a number of

fronts.

> While being right is great fun, being wrong is probably more

valuable in the

> long run.

>

> -al.

>

> On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:44 AM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2

> wrote:

>

> > Michael has decided to sign off the group, so there is no need to

> > reply to his previous comments.

> >

> > - Bill

> >

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I worried from the start when Michael jumped in so enthusiastically

and when he kept it going with half a dozen posts a day, it was clear

there was a collision of some sort coming up. I apologize, as

moderator, for not figuring out a way to head it off. Michael and Bob

obviously represent the two ends of what in America

has become. Michael's The Way of Herbs was a great inspiration for me

to get into this whole thing. But Al is right, we are more academic

than free floating, after all we are the CH Academy.

 

I held back Michael's last post precisely because of the personalness

of it. It's too bad it started the way it did (I'm not going to edit

the body of a post) because the rest is rather beautiful and well stated.

 

 

Anyway....

Doug , " Al Stone " <al wrote:

>

> I know how difficult it can be to operate from a old-school

grass-roots kind

> of herbal paradigm when communicating with academics and authors.

>

> Still, this group has inspired me to raise the bar on a number of

fronts.

> While being right is great fun, being wrong is probably more

valuable in the

> long run.

>

> -al.

>

> On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:44 AM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2

> wrote:

>

> > Michael has decided to sign off the group, so there is no need to

> > reply to his previous comments.

> >

> > - Bill

> >

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is too bad Michael has gone. Despite what you might have thought about

his opinions, he certainly added flavor to the conversation and broke up

what had been a pretty stagnant period in the recent history of the list

(which I have been reading since '99). The theme that underscored the

thread that led him to leave is an old one for sure and it surely won't be

last time we see it here.

 

 

 

Sean

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of bill_schoenbart

Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:45 PM

 

Michael Tierra signed off the group

 

 

 

Michael has decided to sign off the group, so there is no need to

reply to his previous comments.

 

- Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Have i missed something, which post got Michael so angry he felt the

need to sign off?

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In some ways Michael's willingness to challenge the sacred cows

reminded me of you, Alon.

 

 

As I mentioned before, it brings up the major issues of Chinese

Medicine in the West. How much flexibility do we have- should we have

in molding it to our own experience. " Our " being both the collective

of those of us in the west and the personal practitioner.

 

Doug

 

 

, alon marcus

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> Have i missed something, which post got Michael so angry he felt the

> need to sign off?

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

>

> alonmarcus

>

 

[Guest guest]

Doug,

To me the question provides the answer. We need to both study and

embody the Chinese medical tradition deeply, AND mold it to our own

experience, just as generations of Chinese medical practitioners have

done before us. There are several texts out there that deal with this

subject, two I can recommend are Volker Scheid's " Currents of

Tradition/1626-2006 " and the compilation " Innovation in Chinese

Medicine " .

 

Chinese medicine has always adapted to local conditions as it has

spread through Korea, Japan, SE Asia, Mongolia and Tibet. What is

different about the Western adaptation is that all previous societies

had access to the Chinese language and the source literature. Without

that access, development of the tradition will be very limited.

 

 

On Feb 24, 2008, at 12:29 PM, wrote:

 

> In some ways Michael's willingness to challenge the sacred cows

> reminded me of you, Alon.

>

> As I mentioned before, it brings up the major issues of Chinese

> Medicine in the West. How much flexibility do we have- should we have

> in molding it to our own experience. " Our " being both the collective

> of those of us in the west and the personal practitioner.

>

> Doug

>

> , alon marcus

> <alonmarcus wrote:

> >

> > Have i missed something, which post got Michael so angry he felt the

> > need to sign off?

> >

> >

> >

> > 400 29th St. Suite 419

> > Oakland Ca 94609

> >

> >

> >

> > alonmarcus

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Doug

I agree although i strongly believe we need to continually study classic

materials and try not to make stuff up as much as i can. What i strongly believe

in is applying strong critical evaluation of all materials. Something i do not

think many in our profession do. When using CM tools i for the most part only

use CM thinking while paying attention to see if any interesting correlation are

there.