Guest guest Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Geoff, You mentioned, " There was some research at some point regarding the negative effect of hyperstimulating the immune system. " This interests me. Can you elaborate on this or point to where we can read up on this research? Thanks. K. On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 3:01 PM, G Hudson <crudo20 wrote: > Hi John, > I'll also interject a little here also. > > > 1. In what circumstances should we tonify the body during an EPF > attack, > > with which herbs and which nutrients? > > Of course, this is a general question (not taking into account > individual > > constitutions) > > I think the crux of your question has to take into account individual > constitutions. Tonify when there's a deficiency (of qi, yin, blood, > etc). This is where pulse is important. If the patient is very sick, > but pulse is excess, I don't think tonification is called for. If > pulse is weak, then tonify also. EPI (or EPF or whatever Evil Qi) > invades when Wei Qi is realatively weak to the strength of the EPI. I > wouldn't give tonification / Yu Ping Feng San etc to a patient who has > an absolutely strong Wei Qi - even though they may still get sick > because of a very strong EPI which can take anyone down. I think they > talk about this with Wind Warmth epidemic diseases IIRC. > > > If an herb or nutrient is known to raise immunity, why do we wait > until the > > signs/ symptoms have cleared to start using something like " Yu ping feng > > san " > > As above. Isn't there a line in the Nei Jing that says tonifying a > patient when they're sick is like locking the door after the robber > has left? I think the priorty has to shift based on if the Zheng Qi / > pulse is excess vs. deficient. Tonifying the immune system when it's > putting up a strong fight against a strong Evil Qi (tonifying an > excess situation) causes problems. > > > Would it hold the pathogen inside the gates, so to speak? > > > > How come we don't traditionally fortify ourselves during an EPF > attack with > > Ling zhi, Shiitake, Maitake and Oyster mushrooms, which have > beta-glucans > > which activate macrophages and T-cells to destroy foreign bodies > (bacteria, > > viruses, tumor cells)? > > Because our Zheng Qi may already be strong. There was some research > at some point regarding the negative effect of hyperstimulating the > immune system. One of the teachers at our school was always puzzled > why American students always wanted to tonify. > > > What's the role of Vitamin C and Zinc.. anti-viral agents, but we > > don't add these to our external wind attack formulas..contains > berberine, which activates macrophages, responsible for > > destroying bacteria, viruses and tumor cells. ...Garlic has > anti-microbial, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-parasitic, > > anti-viral and according to bio-research, has significant > anti-inflammatory - etc etc etc > > I think this is where bridging the gap gets you into trouble. Look at > the problems from your framework of the medicine, and then it might be > ok to add or subtract a little here or there. While I think that most > flus are Wind Cold and the Common Cold is more often Wind Heat or Wind > Cold, the Wind Cold in a flu is much stronger than the Wind Cold of a > Common Cold. Not that it means a thing in treating the patient, it's > just cool to throw out at a cocktail party. I would only base > treatment off of signs and symptoms, not if I thought it was a cold > vs. flu. > > > Traditionally in China, do they eat a lot of jook for wind-colds, > but fast > > for wind-heats? > > I don't think so, but I might be wrong. I asked my mentor about > releasing the exterior / diaphoresis for Wind Cold vs. Wind Heat. He > said for wind cold excess release strongly (make lots of sweat) and > for wind heat just cause a gentle sweat. I don't think jook is needed > for wind heat to force sweat - it usually comes easily anyways. > > > For Gui zhi tang, don't you traditionally eat jook after the > decoction and > > then cover up? > > How come no jook prescription for wind-heat? > > Geoff > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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