Guest guest Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Rick, Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi gan cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or spasms as in shao yao gan cao tang). Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. Unfortunately it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just returning from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages are to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of the processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention to paozhi? Could someone comment? Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level in the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo will do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality and price reasonable. Hope this helps, - Rick Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM gan cao Hello members of the group , i gave a question about a herb. Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan Cao " thanks in advance Rick .. __,_._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Sulfur-free Zhi gan cao is available at Mayway. Also, Zhi huang qi and several of the other popular processed herbals. K. On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:29 PM, < > wrote: > Rick, > > Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is > slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi gan > cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or spasms > as in shao yao gan cao tang). > > Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an > important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. Unfortunately > it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just returning > from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages are > to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. > > Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the > differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of the > processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some > backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily > accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do > many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been > able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had > side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. > > Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much > attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention to > paozhi? Could someone comment? > > Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to > carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level in > the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo will > do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality and > price reasonable. > > Hope this helps, > > - > > Rick > Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM > <%40> > gan cao > > Hello members of the group , > i gave a question about a herb. > Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan Cao " > thanks in advance > Rick > > . > __,_._ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 K, Yes this is true, but these represent only a fraction of processed medicals that are needed for a real pharmacy. -Jason Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:28 AM Re: gan cao & paozhi Sulfur-free Zhi gan cao is available at Mayway. Also, Zhi huang qi and several of the other popular processed herbals. K. On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:29 PM, < > wrote: > Rick, > > Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is > slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi gan > cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or spasms > as in shao yao gan cao tang). > > Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an > important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. Unfortunately > it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just returning > from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages are > to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. > > Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the > differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of the > processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some > backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily > accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do > many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been > able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had > side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. > > Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much > attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention to > paozhi? Could someone comment? > > Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to > carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level in > the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo will > do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality and > price reasonable. > > Hope this helps, > > - > > Rick > Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM > <%40> > gan cao > > Hello members of the group , > i gave a question about a herb. > Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan Cao " > thanks in advance > Rick > > . > __,_._ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Jason, How much does Kamwo charge for a lb of processing? (powder/chao/zhi/jiu) What is the shelf-life of the pao zhi herb? (Does it spoil faster?) Thanks. K. On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:32 AM, < > wrote: > K, > > Yes this is true, but these represent only a fraction of processed > medicals that are needed for a real pharmacy. > > -Jason > > > Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:28 AM > <%40> > Re: gan cao & paozhi > > > Sulfur-free Zhi gan cao is available at Mayway. > Also, Zhi huang qi and several of the other popular processed herbals. > > K. > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:29 PM, < > <%40Chinese Medicine>> > wrote: > > > Rick, > > > > Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is > > slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi > gan > > cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or > spasms > > as in shao yao gan cao tang). > > > > Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an > > important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. > Unfortunately > > it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just > returning > > from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages > are > > to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. > > > > Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the > > differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of > the > > processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some > > backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily > > accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to > do > > many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have > been > > able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or > had > > side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. > > > > Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much > > attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention > to > > paozhi? Could someone comment? > > > > Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to > > carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level > in > > the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo > will > > do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality > and > > price reasonable. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > - > > > > Rick > > Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM > > <%40> > <%40> > > gan cao > > > > Hello members of the group , > > i gave a question about a herb. > > Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan > Cao " > > thanks in advance > > Rick > > > > . > > __,_._ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Jason, Thank you for sharing your experience with pao zhi. I think that this is that next exciting step to take in evolving as a herbalist. It is one thing to learn how herbs like Di yu or Pu huang can stop bleeding, but another to actually see it in clinical practice. In fact these two herbs only really work to stop bleeding when they are charred. I remember Mazin teaching this to me, explaining that he used Sheng Di Yu for years for bleeding without much result. He even kept raising the dose and still no good effect. He actually started to think that Di Yu just didn't work for bleeding very well, until he tried the charred version. It was then that his clinical outcome changed for the better and his faith in chinese medicine increased dramatically. It is getting into this nitty gritty of herbal practice where we start to see the subtle changes of the art we practice. Mazin likes to reference those reality TV shows like the Iron Chef, where by just one ingredient can make or break a dish. This goes for choosing the right herb for the right condition, the right dose, and the right method of preparing the individual herb within the larger formulation. Trevor , " " wrote: > > K, > > Yes this is true, but these represent only a fraction of processed medicals that are needed for a real pharmacy. > > -Jason > > > > Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:28 AM > > Re: gan cao & paozhi > > > Sulfur-free Zhi gan cao is available at Mayway. > Also, Zhi huang qi and several of the other popular processed herbals. > > K. > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:29 PM, < > > wrote: > > > Rick, > > > > Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is > > slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi gan > > cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or spasms > > as in shao yao gan cao tang). > > > > Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an > > important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. Unfortunately > > it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just returning > > from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages are > > to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. > > > > Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the > > differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of the > > processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some > > backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily > > accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do > > many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been > > able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had > > side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. > > > > Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much > > attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention to > > paozhi? Could someone comment? > > > > Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to > > carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level in > > the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo will > > do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality and > > price reasonable. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > - > > > > Rick > > Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM > > To: <%40> > > gan cao > > > > Hello members of the group , > > i gave a question about a herb. > > Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan Cao " > > thanks in advance > > Rick > > > > . > > __,_._ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 ok , its clear now. Thanks for the extra info. best wishes Rick Sunday, May 4, 2008 2:29:59 AM Re: gan cao & paozhi Rick, Yes there is a clinical difference.. . Sheng gan cao clears heat and is slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi gan cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or spasms as in shao yao gan cao tang). Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. Unfortunately it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just returning from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages are to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of the processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention to paozhi? Could someone comment? Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level in the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo will do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality and price reasonable. Hope this helps, - Rick Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM gan cao Hello members of the group , i gave a question about a herb. Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan Cao " thanks in advance Rick .. __,_._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 K, IThe price really depends on the processing... Simple dry-frying or scorch-frying are a 2-3 dollars per pound, but more elaborate methods can be slightly more. I am not sure about the shelf life. We usually burn through herbs fairly quickly, so it does not seem to be an issue. -Jason Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:28 PM Re: gan cao & paozhi Jason, How much does Kamwo charge for a lb of processing? (powder/chao/zhi/jiu) What is the shelf-life of the pao zhi herb? (Does it spoil faster?) Thanks. K. On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:32 AM, < > wrote: > K, > > Yes this is true, but these represent only a fraction of processed > medicals that are needed for a real pharmacy. > > -Jason > > > Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:28 AM > <%40> > Re: gan cao & paozhi > > > Sulfur-free Zhi gan cao is available at Mayway. > Also, Zhi huang qi and several of the other popular processed herbals. > > K. > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:29 PM, < > <%40Chinese Medicine>> > wrote: > > > Rick, > > > > Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is > > slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi > gan > > cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or > spasms > > as in shao yao gan cao tang). > > > > Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an > > important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. > Unfortunately > > it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just > returning > > from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such usages > are > > to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. > > > > Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the > > differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many of > the > > processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or some > > backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily > > accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to > do > > many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have > been > > able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or > had > > side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. > > > > Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much > > attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention > to > > paozhi? Could someone comment? > > > > Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind to > > carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal level > in > > the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. Kamwo > will > > do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their quality > and > > price reasonable. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > - > > > > Rick > > Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM > > <%40> > <%40> > > gan cao > > > > Hello members of the group , > > i gave a question about a herb. > > Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan > Cao " > > thanks in advance > > Rick > > > > . > > __,_._ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Jason, Thanks for the tip. BTW; kudos to Steven Clavey who did a lot of the work on the Bensky et al. Materia Medica 3rd ed. I didnt' know that he did so much of the commentary and comparisons, contraindications and Preparations of each monograph, until I read the Preface. These aspects of the 3rd Edition are invaluable. K. On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:26 PM, < > wrote: > K, > > IThe price really depends on the processing... Simple dry-frying or > scorch-frying are a 2-3 dollars per pound, but more elaborate methods can be > slightly more. > > I am not sure about the shelf life. We usually burn through herbs fairly > quickly, so it does not seem to be an issue. > > -Jason > > > Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:28 PM > <%40> > Re: gan cao & paozhi > > Jason, > > How much does Kamwo charge for a lb of processing? (powder/chao/zhi/jiu) > > What is the shelf-life of the pao zhi herb? (Does it spoil faster?) > > Thanks. > K. > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:32 AM, < > <%40Chinese Medicine>> > wrote: > > > K, > > > > Yes this is true, but these represent only a fraction of processed > > medicals that are needed for a real pharmacy. > > > > -Jason > > > > > > Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:28 AM > > <%40> > <%40> > > Re: gan cao & paozhi > > > > > > Sulfur-free Zhi gan cao is available at Mayway. > > Also, Zhi huang qi and several of the other popular processed herbals. > > > > K. > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:29 PM, < > > <%40Chinese Medicine><% > 40Chinese Medicine>> > > > wrote: > > > > > Rick, > > > > > > Yes there is a clinical difference... Sheng gan cao clears heat and is > > > slightly cool (some say neutral) (I.e. used for sore throat). (mi) zhi > > gan > > > cao is slightly warm and tonifies the Spleen (I.e. si jun zi tang or > > spasms > > > as in shao yao gan cao tang). > > > > > > Differentiations in regard to paozhi (processing of medicinals) is an > > > important way to change the nature and action of medicinals. > > Unfortunately > > > it seems to be generally overlooked her in the West. After just > > returning > > > from some more time in China, it is very clear how integral such > usages > > are > > > to many of the more prominent and older physicians' results. > > > > > > Bensky's new MM III does an excellent job of breaking down the > > > differences, as well instructions for self preparation Although, many > of > > the > > > processing methods are labor intensive and only found in China (or > some > > > backstreet pharmacies in the West), the general ones can be easily > > > accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to > > do > > > many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have > > been > > > able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or > > had > > > side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. > > > > > > Since I rarely use ready-made formulas / pills, I am curious how much > > > attention herbal supplement companies that make formulas pay attention > > to > > > paozhi? Could someone comment? > > > > > > Finally, starting to request distributors like Mayway and Springwind > to > > > carry such preparations is the first step to increasing the herbal > level > > in > > > the West. I am seen them add a few here and there over the years. > Kamwo > > will > > > do many herbal preparations (upon request) & I have found their > quality > > and > > > price reasonable. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > > > - > > > > > > Rick > > > Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:07 PM > > > To: <%40> > <%40> > > <%40> > > > gan cao > > > > > > Hello members of the group , > > > i gave a question about a herb. > > > Is there any clinical difference between " Sheng Gan Cao " and " Zhi Gan > > Cao " > > > thanks in advance > > > Rick > > > > > > . > > > __,_._ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Jason - Since you have some skill in pao zhi, would you be willing to share those techniques? It would be a real plus if you might consider demonstrating via youtube or the like... just a thought! Geoff , " " wrote: > > the general ones can be easily accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Geoff, I appreciate the request, however I do not have the technology or time to set up youtube videos. Although, I have spent some time now prescribing and preparing various 'prepared medicinals' my skill level is not that high of a level. I am though planning to bring a friend/ colleague of mine (that lives in China) for a 1 day paozhi class this summer in Boulder. For those that might be interested I will have more details in the near future. - G Hudson Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:47 AM Re: gan cao & paozhi Jason - Since you have some skill in pao zhi, would you be willing to share those techniques? It would be a real plus if you might consider demonstrating via youtube or the like... just a thought! Geoff , " " wrote: > > the general ones can be easily accomplished in one's own kitchen. Although some training is needed to do many of them correctly. Since I started doing regular paozhi, I have been able to use formulas and herbs that in the past just never worked, or had side-effects. Blue Poppy also has an introduction book on this topic. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3076 (20080505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I learned from David Winston to apply the pao zhi to western herbs as well. He's been doing it since he apprenticed with Dr. Eng in the '70s. It works. Karen S. Vaughan, L.Ac., MSTOM Registered Herbalist (AHG) Creationsgarden1 253 Garfield Place Brooklyn, NY 11215 (718) 622-6755 **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I'd be very interested in how he applies his pao zhi techniques. . . On May 8, 2008, at 8:28 AM, creationsgarden1 wrote: > I learned from David Winston to apply the pao zhi to western herbs > as well. > He's been doing it since he apprenticed with Dr. Eng in the '70s. It > works. > > > Karen S. Vaughan, L.Ac., MSTOM > Registered Herbalist (AHG) > Creationsgarden1 > 253 Garfield Place > Brooklyn, NY 11215 > > (718) 622-6755 > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Karen, Z'ev, all, I also apply paozhi to Western herbs. You can find information about the clinical significance/uses of some of these preparations in my new book, Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide. Of course you know this Z'ev, since you wrote one of the forwards for the book. BTW: if you go to Amazon you can also see comments by David Winston found on the back cover of the book, as well as at least one review written by one of our colleagues. Paozhi is a long-time interest of mine and I am currently compiling Chinese literature on the subject and had found a teacher, who has unfortunately recently passed away. A lot of old-school knowledge just slipped right through my handss and all of your hands as well, as we were planning to write a book on the subject. So, I have decided to continue with the project and dedicate the book to Dr. Jin's memory. Hopefully I can find another teacher here, but that is getting harder and harder to do. Sincerely, Thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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