Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Carl, Bob, Z'ev, et al, This is a very important point. I was never trained as a teacher, as Carl has pointed out, but I have since spent some time studying androgogy and pedogogy because I like teaching and find the subject quite captivating. I would like to point out that I believe the study of pedogogy is also important because many of the students, especially the younger ones, have different needs, many times they need help wading through just how to study the material and they tend to lack self-directedness and are often more interested in data than problem solving. So, therefore looking at pedogogy as a means of addressing these issues can be quite helpful. I hope that when I go back to teaching later this year I will be able to further integrate these methods...... I agree with all your points, each of you. I think what Carl and Bob said about these being two different disciplines is a huge issue that needs to be addressed, I am happy to hear that there is at least some teacher training in the doctoral programs, although I wonder about the quality....anybody there have an opinion... I also want to agree whole-heartedly that I would rather have a " less-than-expert " in the field as a teacher if s/he is an excellent teacher rather than an expert who doesn't know how to communicate......major problem. Another problem you have pointed out, Bob, is that a person can't make a living as a teacher in the current scheme. This doesn't really motivate a person to do a better job, and in fact I have seen teachers who have this sense of not really wanting to work that hard because the money is piss-poor and the school is not as supportive as it could be....I'm sure this is not a unique situation. Perhaps, schools need to more from private to public domains, where they can have more financial backing and teachers can actually make a career out of it, doing research, writing, practicing, and leading the field as teachers and scholars...oh sorry I think I just woke up for a day-dream.... Thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Thomas, Some of this is a 'generational thing'. I always have to remind myself and others that this profession started in the West largely due to a few Chinese and Japanese teachers and a larger number of '60's idealists, and no infrastructure existed as in China to set up academic institutions. The last thirty years has seen continuous growth and development in the field, including academic institutions. I see it at PCOM, where I've taught for eighteen years. Now we have several full-time faculty, including some 'world-class' teachers, and our academic dean, Stacy Gomes has emphasized teacher development tools. This doesn't mean that in the future we shouldn't require teachers to be professional educators, but that the profession as a whole is moving in that direction. Technological developments have also contributed to this as well. On May 6, 2008, at 7:34 PM, wrote: > Carl, Bob, Z'ev, et al, > > This is a very important point. I was never trained as a teacher, as > Carl has pointed out, but I have since spent some time studying > androgogy and pedogogy because I like teaching and find the subject > quite captivating. I would like to point out that I believe the > study of pedogogy is also important because many of the students, > especially the younger ones, have different needs, many times they > need help wading through just how to study the material and they > tend to lack self-directedness and are often more interested in data > than problem solving. So, therefore looking at pedogogy as a means > of addressing these issues can be quite helpful. I hope that when I > go back to teaching later this year I will be able to further > integrate these methods...... > > I agree with all your points, each of you. I think what Carl and Bob > said about these being two different disciplines is a huge issue > that needs to be addressed, I am happy to hear that there is at > least some teacher training in the doctoral programs, although I > wonder about the quality....anybody there have an opinion... > I also want to agree whole-heartedly that I would rather have a > " less-than-expert " in the field as a teacher if s/he is an excellent > teacher rather than an expert who doesn't know how to > communicate......major problem. > > Another problem you have pointed out, Bob, is that a person can't > make a living as a teacher in the current scheme. This doesn't > really motivate a person to do a better job, and in fact I have seen > teachers who have this sense of not really wanting to work that hard > because the money is piss-poor and the school is not as supportive > as it could be....I'm sure this is not a unique situation. > > Perhaps, schools need to more from private to public domains, where > they can have more financial backing and teachers can actually make > a career out of it, doing research, writing, practicing, and leading > the field as teachers and scholars...oh sorry I think I just woke up > for a day-dream.... > > Thomas > > > Beijing, China > Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A > Practitioners Guide > > www.sourcepointherbs.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Z'ev, What are some of the " teacher development tools " that PCOM is utilizing? I've started teaching at a school and am always looking for ways to connect with the students. Thanks, K. On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:44 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > Thomas, > Some of this is a 'generational thing'. I always have to remind > myself and others that this profession started in the West largely due > to a few Chinese and Japanese teachers and a larger number of '60's > idealists, and no infrastructure existed as in China to set up > academic institutions. The last thirty years has seen continuous > growth and development in the field, including academic institutions. > I see it at PCOM, where I've taught for eighteen years. Now we have > several full-time faculty, including some 'world-class' teachers, and > our academic dean, Stacy Gomes has emphasized teacher development > tools. This doesn't mean that in the future we shouldn't require > teachers to be professional educators, but that the profession as a > whole is moving in that direction. Technological developments have > also contributed to this as well. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I would agree that in some ways things are getting better. Still, its a matter of what kind of money is at the other end. My position is not that much different from the " associate professors " at the community college down the street. Read: freelance. PCOM has been smart with its money it seems to be able to hire full time people. It used to be that the schools would hire Asians with the hope of a green card written into the contract. That has stopped around my schools as far as I can see. Most schools grew as extensions of the dreams of practitioners who want to share. (It's interesting to read the new Scheid book in this light) We (the TCM schools) aren't Universities with endowments nor state support. And we have this unfortunate practical clinic side that precludes us from being part of academic Asian studies or anthropology or whatever at those Universities. It seems the medical schools aren't ready to take us on on our own terms. Yet. Still I'm glad to be doing it... and after 10 years I'm starting to get the hang of teaching. (My skin grows thicker daily) :-) Doug , <zrosenbe wrote: > > Thomas, > Some of this is a 'generational thing'. I always have to remind > myself and others that this profession started in the West largely due > to a few Chinese and Japanese teachers and a larger number of '60's > idealists, and no infrastructure existed as in China to set up > academic institutions. The last thirty years has seen continuous > growth and development in the field, including academic institutions. > I see it at PCOM, where I've taught for eighteen years. Now we have > several full-time faculty, including some 'world-class' teachers, and > our academic dean, Stacy Gomes has emphasized teacher development > tools. This doesn't mean that in the future we shouldn't require > teachers to be professional educators, but that the profession as a > whole is moving in that direction. Technological developments have > also contributed to this as well. > > > On May 6, 2008, at 7:34 PM, wrote: > > > Carl, Bob, Z'ev, et al, > > > > This is a very important point. I was never trained as a teacher, as > > Carl has pointed out, but I have since spent some time studying > > androgogy and pedogogy because I like teaching and find the subject > > quite captivating. I would like to point out that I believe the > > study of pedogogy is also important because many of the students, > > especially the younger ones, have different needs, many times they > > need help wading through just how to study the material and they > > tend to lack self-directedness and are often more interested in data > > than problem solving. So, therefore looking at pedogogy as a means > > of addressing these issues can be quite helpful. I hope that when I > > go back to teaching later this year I will be able to further > > integrate these methods...... > > > > I agree with all your points, each of you. I think what Carl and Bob > > said about these being two different disciplines is a huge issue > > that needs to be addressed, I am happy to hear that there is at > > least some teacher training in the doctoral programs, although I > > wonder about the quality....anybody there have an opinion... > > I also want to agree whole-heartedly that I would rather have a > > " less-than-expert " in the field as a teacher if s/he is an excellent > > teacher rather than an expert who doesn't know how to > > communicate......major problem. > > > > Another problem you have pointed out, Bob, is that a person can't > > make a living as a teacher in the current scheme. This doesn't > > really motivate a person to do a better job, and in fact I have seen > > teachers who have this sense of not really wanting to work that hard > > because the money is piss-poor and the school is not as supportive > > as it could be....I'm sure this is not a unique situation. > > > > Perhaps, schools need to more from private to public domains, where > > they can have more financial backing and teachers can actually make > > a career out of it, doing research, writing, practicing, and leading > > the field as teachers and scholars...oh sorry I think I just woke up > > for a day-dream.... > > > > Thomas > > > > > > Beijing, China > > Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A > > Practitioners Guide > > > > www.sourcepointherbs.org > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 The other thing which I can't reconcile is that our Asian teachers are for the most part, really smart, that is to say... very good at test taking, in an educational system that emphasizes memorization, in a tradition that emphasizes memorizing everything from the Neijing to formulas. I fear our Asian friends see us as really, really stupid, because those in the field in the West tend not to be strong in this regard, to say the least. As someone pointed out - Westerns want the general ideas so they can then understand the specifics. Add to that our schools demand we give A's and B's and sometimes C's, for both graduate credentialing and motivation. We are at cross purposes all over the place. Our " clients " (students) pay for an education and we hit them with quizzes and tests 5 times a week on material that is soon forgotten. All in the name of " rigor " . A few thoughts... Doug , wrote: > > Carl, Bob, Z'ev, et al, > > This is a very important point. I was never trained as a teacher, as Carl has pointed out, but I have since spent some time studying androgogy and pedogogy because I like teaching and find the subject quite captivating. I would like to point out that I believe the study of pedogogy is also important because many of the students, especially the younger ones, have different needs, many times they need help wading through just how to study the material and they tend to lack self-directedness and are often more interested in data than problem solving. So, therefore looking at pedogogy as a means of addressing these issues can be quite helpful. I hope that when I go back to teaching later this year I will be able to further integrate these methods...... > > I agree with all your points, each of you. I think what Carl and Bob said about these being two different disciplines is a huge issue that needs to be addressed, I am happy to hear that there is at least some teacher training in the doctoral programs, although I wonder about the quality....anybody there have an opinion... > I also want to agree whole-heartedly that I would rather have a " less-than-expert " in the field as a teacher if s/he is an excellent teacher rather than an expert who doesn't know how to communicate......major problem. > > Another problem you have pointed out, Bob, is that a person can't make a living as a teacher in the current scheme. This doesn't really motivate a person to do a better job, and in fact I have seen teachers who have this sense of not really wanting to work that hard because the money is piss-poor and the school is not as supportive as it could be....I'm sure this is not a unique situation. > > Perhaps, schools need to more from private to public domains, where they can have more financial backing and teachers can actually make a career out of it, doing research, writing, practicing, and leading the field as teachers and scholars...oh sorry I think I just woke up for a day-dream.... > > Thomas > > > > > > Beijing, China > Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide > > www.sourcepointherbs.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 John, Our academic dean, Stacy Gomes put together packets of teacher training tools, some of which are available on the internet. Can't remember the names of some of the authors, it was a few years ago. More significant to me are the availability of Powerpoint projectors, overhead projectors, teachers assistants, increased feedback tools and forms, etc. On May 6, 2008, at 9:05 PM, wrote: > Z'ev, > > What are some of the " teacher development tools " that PCOM is > utilizing? > I've started teaching at a school and am always looking for ways to > connect > with the students. > > Thanks, > K. > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:44 PM, <zrosenbe > wrote: > > > Thomas, > > Some of this is a 'generational thing'. I always have to remind > > myself and others that this profession started in the West largely > due > > to a few Chinese and Japanese teachers and a larger number of '60's > > idealists, and no infrastructure existed as in China to set up > > academic institutions. The last thirty years has seen continuous > > growth and development in the field, including academic > institutions. > > I see it at PCOM, where I've taught for eighteen years. Now we have > > several full-time faculty, including some 'world-class' teachers, > and > > our academic dean, Stacy Gomes has emphasized teacher development > > tools. This doesn't mean that in the future we shouldn't require > > teachers to be professional educators, but that the profession as a > > whole is moving in that direction. Technological developments have > > also contributed to this as well. > > > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Thomas, I was talking to a school owner last year about their school's library. I had just been given a tour by the librarian who lamented the fact that the library was not used as a research tool the way libraries are used at other types of colleges and universities. I was suggesting to the owner the need for more materials with which the students could do research for any papers they have to write. The owner said that, since the teachers are not paid for class prep or grading time, they don't typically assign papers. Papers take too much time to read and grade. If you're not getting paid for this, not many are going to assign these kinds of projects. The owner also pointed out that, for the same reason, most teachers only give multiple choice and true-false tests. Since they're not getting paid for grading tests, they want whatever they have to grade be as quick and easy as possible. (Actually, I was amazed at how conscious and honest the owner was in their assessment of the situation.) This is a huge problem. As we all know, there are certain kinds of problem-solving skills that cannot be developed and assessed by multiple choice and true-false tests. In addition, the ability to write a cogent paper develops and demonstrates the ability to think logically and state one's ideas clearly (i.e., communicate), abilities desperately needed by all clinicians. I have written elsewhere that the only way to remedy this situation is to develop endowments so that school's operating budgets are not entirely dependent on tuition. Tuition-based budgets can only do so much. As the saying goes, if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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