Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 If an herb courses wind is it also promoting/causing wind? I am reading Western Herbs according to TCM where it is written that Lobelia extinguishes and alleviates spam. by causing and downbearing wind. I tried looking up definitions but haven't found a clarification. Sean On Behalf Of Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:54 AM Re: Re: Was Tom Verhaege throws a great party; now Teaching The other issue with the term, " Patent medicine " is that most of the pills/tablets that are available are not patented at all. They are classical/ traditional formulas that are public domain. Actually, pharmaceuticals are the true " patent medicine " , if we look at it that way. This can confuse patients and suppliers. I like the term : " prepared medicine " or just saying specifically " pills " , " tablets " , " capsules " , " tinctures " , " wines " , " plasters " etc. Chinese prepared medicinals... Asian prepared medicinals... K. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:21 PM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 <plantmed2%40gmail.com> > wrote: > OTC has a drug connotation, so I don't feel comfortable with that > wording. The term Patent Medicine is readily identifiable in a TCM > context, while Prepared Medicine could be anything. But the negative > associations that Bob mentioned can't be ignored. > > <%40> <%40>, > " Al Stone " <al wrote: > > > > I'm a little luke-warm on the term " prepared medicines " . What do you > think > > about " over the counter herbs " ? I mean, they are the herbal > equivalent of > > OTC drugs. > > > > On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 12:32 PM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 > > wrote: > > > > > Good point Bob. Old habits die hard. I even wrote a book around 12 > > > years ago with the term Patent Medicines in the title (the publisher > > > chose the title). I'll try to start using the term Prepared Medicines > > > instead. > > > > > > - Bill > > > > > > > > > -- > > , DAOM > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Hi Sean, I hope that not what it says: it should say, " Extinguishes wind and alleviates spasms and convulsions. Lobelia is used for the treatment of liver-wind stirring internally, of any etiology. This is a very important herb for all types of spasm, convulsions, tremors, and seizures. Lobelia is exceptional for the treatment of internal liver-wind of any etiology. I have not seen the book yet since I have been in China since before its release. Please post a direct quote. Thomas If an herb courses wind is it also promoting/causing wind? I am reading Western Herbs according to TCM where it is written that Lobelia extinguishes and alleviates spam. by causing and downbearing wind. I tried looking up definitions but haven't found a clarification. Sean Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Hi Thomas, Thanks for your reply. I thought it might be a typo, but wanted to check to be sure. The passage is under " Functions and Indications: Extinguishes wind and alleviates spasms and convulsions: Lobelia is used to treat liver-wind stirring internally, of any etiology. Lobelia causes wind with acridity and downbears with cold bitterness. This is a very important herb for all types of spasm, convulsions, tremors, and seizures. Lobelia is exceptional for the treatment of these conditions. " I like your book, not only for the functions and indications, but the commentary sections about the herbs are interesting. Nice photographs too. Not sure where you are in China, but hope you are safe and well. I have been reading reports about how herb imports will likely be affected by the earthquake, as many of the roads to the growing areas are now inaccessible, with uncertainty as to when the roads will be repaired. Kind of illustrates the importance of a book like yours. Sean On Behalf Of Friday, May 16, 2008 4:50 AM Re:Coursing Wind Hi Sean, I hope that not what it says: it should say, " Extinguishes wind and alleviates spasms and convulsions. Lobelia is used for the treatment of liver-wind stirring internally, of any etiology. This is a very important herb for all types of spasm, convulsions, tremors, and seizures. Lobelia is exceptional for the treatment of internal liver-wind of any etiology. I have not seen the book yet since I have been in China since before its release. Please post a direct quote. Thomas If an herb courses wind is it also promoting/causing wind? I am reading Western Herbs according to TCM where it is written that Lobelia extinguishes and alleviates spam. by causing and downbearing wind. I tried looking up definitions but haven't found a clarification. Sean Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide <thomas%40sourcepointherbs.org> www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Hi Thomas, Looks like there may be a typo in the Lobelia monograph. In addition to what you quoted below, it also states " Lobelia CAUSES WIND with acridity and downbears with cold bitterness " . (It does NOT say that it " alleviates spam " , though. That would have been a good function for treating email accounts, or for Hawaiians who eat too much spam sushi!) I noticed a few other typos when I was using your book as a reference in a CEU class last month. When I have more time this summer, I'll take a closer look at it. Some typos are to be expected in a new book. It's still a great book, and I highly recommend it. - Bill , wrote: > > Hi Sean, > > I hope that not what it says: it should say, " Extinguishes wind and alleviates spasms and convulsions. Lobelia is used for the treatment of liver-wind stirring internally, of any etiology. This is a very important herb for all types of spasm, convulsions, tremors, and seizures. Lobelia is exceptional for the treatment of internal liver-wind of any etiology. > > I have not seen the book yet since I have been in China since before its release. Please post a direct quote. > > Thomas > > If an herb courses wind is it also promoting/causing wind? I am reading > Western Herbs according to TCM where it is written that Lobelia extinguishes > and alleviates spam. by causing and downbearing wind. I tried looking up > definitions but haven't found a clarification. > > Sean > > > Beijing, China > Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide > > www.sourcepointherbs.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2 wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > > Looks like there may be a typo in the Lobelia monograph. In addition > to what you quoted below, it also states " Lobelia CAUSES WIND with > acridity and downbears with cold bitterness " . Typos aside, the phrase " courses wind " in Chinese literature is often used to denote the exterior-resolving action of cool acrid substances that are used to treat wind-heat. Such substances tend not to promote sweating as strongly as wind-cold resolving medicinals, such as ma huang, which are often said to " promote sweating and resolve the exterior " instead of " coursing wind. " Things like bo he, ju hua, and mu zei are often said to " course wind and clear heat, " or (literally) " course and disperse wind-heat, " which is often shortened in English to just " disperse wind-heat. " Simply put, the phrase " coursing wind " is generally seen in cool substances that treat exterior disorders, but do not necessarily strongly promote sweating (this method is generally desired in wind-heat, since strong promotion of sweating tends to further damage yin and body fluids). Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Eric, That was my error. The typo was in the Extinguish Wind section of functions and indications for Lobelia in Thomas' book. There is also a courses wind, resolves the exterior, and disperses wind-heat function further into the text. Sorry for that. Sean On Behalf Of Eric Brand Friday, May 16, 2008 8:20 PM Re:Coursing Wind <%40> , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2 wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > > Looks like there may be a typo in the Lobelia monograph. In addition > to what you quoted below, it also states " Lobelia CAUSES WIND with > acridity and downbears with cold bitterness " . Typos aside, the phrase " courses wind " in Chinese literature is often used to denote the exterior-resolving action of cool acrid substances that are used to treat wind-heat. Such substances tend not to promote sweating as strongly as wind-cold resolving medicinals, such as ma huang, which are often said to " promote sweating and resolve the exterior " instead of " coursing wind. " Things like bo he, ju hua, and mu zei are often said to " course wind and clear heat, " or (literally) " course and disperse wind-heat, " which is often shortened in English to just " disperse wind-heat. " Simply put, the phrase " coursing wind " is generally seen in cool substances that treat exterior disorders, but do not necessarily strongly promote sweating (this method is generally desired in wind-heat, since strong promotion of sweating tends to further damage yin and body fluids). Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Bill, Sean, all, Thanks to both of you for picking up the typo. I hope there are not that many :-( Anyway, NO lobelia does not CAUSE wind, it COURSES it. Yes, Sean, I think that the current situation in China and the problem there is and will be with the availability of at least some Chinese medicinals illustrates at least one good reason this work in critical to our field...if you read th introductory material you will find that, although I don't mention natural disasters as a specific reason, I highlight several reasons why I think this material is important, they are mostly environmental/ecological, but political factors could easily play a part in accessibility of Chinese medicinals in the future. Thanks for supporting the work and I appreciate the kind words you both had to say...I also appreciate any criticisms anybody might have. BTW: I am in Beijing, although I was close to that area only a week before the earthquake....as Bill mentioned, I dodged a bullet! Thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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