CHA Poll on net taxable income

[Guest guest]

I'm assuming that this poll is coming from Todd by the way.

 

" " < wrote:

gross practice income/year

> is largely a multiple of

> (mean session fee) X (mean number of sessions/year).

 

That would be right.... although there are teachers, lecturers and writers on

this list.

 

> This seems a poor net taxable income for experienced TCM practitioners.

> Any comments on why?

 

I personally can think of a dozen or so practitioners in my immediate area who

easily earn

10 times that. However, they are not on on this list, (no need! too busy!) That

would bring

up the curve. And a few dozen practitioners who earn much less, failing to get

their

business off the ground and doing other things.

 

I know of one office in Los Angeles who employs full time people. The salary is

rumored to

be in the $50 K range.

 

>

> Do the 13 who responded respresent the general profession?

>

> What is the mean session fee for TCM Tx in USA?

 

I think people ask between $50 and $100. Although there are exceptions on either

side.

The question is also the mean amount of money actually received. This would

include price

discounts and the actual money received from the insurance company per session.

 

Yes, its generally not a happy picture although there are other rewards. But

then health

care is a thorn in the paw here in the USA. Although their average wage is much

higher,

many MD's face a crisis in their own arena. But nothing is permanent and

perhaps there

will be changes in the near future.

>

> Best regards,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is from me. I regularly receive inquiries from prospective students (and

parents from prospective students) on this subject. In order to not let my own

glaring biases intrude on my response, I thought I would collect some data

(albeit unscientific). I believe this list has a rather large cross-section of

folks and if a large number responded, it would be as least as useful as one of

those acupuncturetoday polls (LOL). In any event, it would certainly be better

than than the anecdotes I have filed in my memory over the years.

 

BTW, a while back, I did some research on salaries in our field via various Web

sites that track such things (including the Bureau of Labor Management). By

looking at actual data from acupuncturists (which was too small to be a valid

sample, IMO) as well as extrapolating from a much larger database of allied

healthcare practitioners, from which I had to deduce how many were L.Ac.'s, the

average figures seemed to be around 50 K, averaged for all practitioners, no

matter how long they have practiced. The only exception was those with 20 or

more years in practice, and their comparatively higher income does not

necessarily mean one can expect to be doing as well when they reach their 20

year mark. It is just as possible that the long-timers have cornered the market

on the relatively small patient pool available to the profession (yes, extensive

research suggests only a small number of Americans use acupuncture and that

number has not grown at a rate nearly as fast the profession itse

lf—see quoted post below).

 

My other purpose in creating this poll is to provide you who still remain in the

profession with some data that you might find useful for other purposes, as

well. There are clearly a lot of people not using CM who could benefit from it,

and insurance still does not reimburse adequately for those who do. There is one

reason and one reason only for this—lack of controlled research to convince

all parties that it is worth their money. Perhaps if those out there who think

they are making a crappy living because they lack business savvy, don't know

enough, can't read Chinese, etc. were aware that their burden is shared by most

others in the field, that would would finally be a wake-up call to consider what

is really going on here and do something about it. It doesn't matter how good

you are business or chinese if most people aren't interested in your product.

 

Of course, I am far too busy with other things these days to engage anymore on

this subject, but I thought I'd take the time to reply after being outed as the

pollster so no one would be left to speculate on my motives.

 

Use of CAM in the US (written long before today's recession economy, BTW)

 

For some insight into the penetration of alternative medicine into the

mainstream, consider this data. Despite the rhetoric, it appears that interest

in actual medical practices (as opposed to prayer and massage) has plateaued or

stalled at a fairly low level.

 

 

 

Barnes PM, Powell-Griner E, McFann K, Nahin RL. Complementary and alternative

medicine use among adults: United States 2002. Advance Data from Vital and

Health Statistics 2004 May 27;343:1-20.

 

Abstract

Objective—This report presents selected estimates of complementary and

alternative medicine (CAM) use among U.S. adults, using data from the 2002

National Health Interview Survey (NHIS), conducted by the Centers for Disease

Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS).

Methods—Data for the U.S. civilian noninstitutionalized population were

collected using computer-assisted personal interviews (CAPI). This report is

based on 31,044 interviews of adults age 18 years and over. Statistics shown in

this report were age adjusted to the year 2000 U.S. standard population.

Results—Sixty-two percent of adults used some form of CAM therapy during

the past 12 months when the definition of CAM therapy included prayer

specifically for health reasons. When prayer specifically for health reasons was

excluded from the definition, 36% of adults used some form of CAM therapy during

the past 12 months. The 10 most commonly used CAM therapies during the past 12

months were use of prayer specifically for one’s own health (43.0%), prayer by

others for one’s own health (24.4%), natural products (18.9%), deep breathing

exercises (11.6%), participation in prayer group for one’s own health (9.6%),

meditation (7.6%), chiropractic care (7.5%), yoga (5.1%), massage (5.0%), and

diet-based therapies (3.5%).

 

 

 

You can read the details in the entire report. Note that acupuncture is not even

on this list. At the time of the data collection, it had been used by about 1%

of the population, that after two decades of practitioners marketing to their

patients. Some groups are throwing around figures like 70% CAM usage in the US,

but that is mostly prayer for oneself or others. BTW, Naturopathy had a .2%

usage rate and ayurveda .1%. The largest subset was the use of herbs and other

non-vitamin/mineral supplements. However,they are clearly not being purchased as

a result of consultation with a licensed practitioner.

 

Here is a quote from David Eisenberg in a USA Today article that is about two

years old:

 

" Overall use of alternative medicine has stayed about the same for 14 years,

says panel member David Eisenberg of Harvard Medical School, who did the first

large survey on the issue in 1990. But herbal product use jumped 50% from 1997

to 2002. "

 

The quote above is from a 2005 study. Eisenberg is the author of the landmark

study on CAM usage that result in the founding of the office of CAM within NIH.

Yet despite 10 years of research since its founding to this article, there has

been no change in total usage. One change is a big spike in herb purchases, but

not from providers, rather from stores and the Internet. And this spike has

taken income away from other usage during the same period. This means that there

is a limited pool of people who use CAM and if they spend their money on one

modality, they do not spend it on another. There is no more recent data on CAM

usage in the US, so anyone who claims to be aware of more recent trends in the

past five years that contradict this data should provide sources to back it up.

This article suggests that CAM is sought out by certain personality types and

this may be a primary driving factor. The only data I am aware of that seems to

suggest increasing acupuncture use is an increase

in the number of claims to insurance companies for this service in recent

years. However, this may be misleading. Since more companies now offer limited

coverage of acupuncture services, claims are bound to go up. This does not mean

usage has increased, just that more practitioners are seeking third-party

compensation for patients who used to pay out of pocket. It would also appear

that while new patients explore acupuncture every year, just as many stop using

it, thus maintaining the status quo.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Good to hear from you, Todd. Interesting stuff. Knowing this I would urge others

to

complete the survey so there might be a more representative number of CHA

members

reflected in it. I hope when the survey gets bigger Todd will let us know.

 

I can see other issues as the 20 year experience might actually mean more

retirees as our

average starting age is usually fairly late giving new comers a try. And the

number of

Chinese practitioners may slow down as opportunities arise in their home

countries. Who

knows?

 

(For those who don't know, Todd is the founder of CHA... it's a long story but

he gave the

reins to me a few years ago.)

 

Doug

 

 

, wrote:

>

> Yes, it is from me. I regularly receive inquiries from prospective students

(and parents

from prospective students) on this subject. In order to not let my own glaring

biases

intrude on my response, I thought I would collect some data (albeit

unscientific). I believe

this list has a rather large cross-section of folks and if a large number

responded, it

would be as least as useful as one of those acupuncturetoday polls (LOL). In any

event, it

would certainly be better than than the anecdotes I have filed in my memory over

the

years.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

Is it correct that:

 

Apart from sales of herbs, rubs, equipment, etc, gross practice income/year

is largely a multiple of

(mean session fee) X (mean number of sessions/year).

 

The higher the mean session fee and the higher the mean number of

sessions/year, the higher the gross income.

 

Net income = Gross income minus (costs + overheads, including salaries)

 

Net taxable income = Net income minus non-taxable allowances

 

> What was your net taxable income (NOT gross receipts) from business

> activities related to in 2007. (Please only respond

> if you have been out of school for five or more years. NOTE: This is

> an anonymous survey.)

 

The poll is at

/ surveys?id=2711712

 

I calculate the MEAN net taxable income from 13 respondents (so far), as

circa $49230, with 67% of respondents reporting net taxable income

<$55000.

 

This seems a poor net taxable income for experienced TCM practitioners.

Any comments on why?

 

Do the 13 who responded respresent the general profession?

 

What is the mean session fee for TCM Tx in USA?

 

Best regards,