BPA-free soft plastic

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

Here you go. http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm

Obviously, the technology exists. Interesting that it is called

" medical grade. " The bottles can be found online for under $9.

 

Our plastic rolls from Korea could also be a " medical grade " . I would

love confirmation though, if anyone has access. This could well settle

this issue for ourselves and for the peace of mind of our patient

population.

 

According to the little bit of research I did, two main contributors

to facilitating the leaching of the BPA is heat and extended contact.

For my patients, I simply let the decoction cool in the bagging

machine holding tank, while the next batch cooks, before bagging. I

only make up to three weeks worth at a time, and recommend they toss

the herbs after a month if still unused. While the heat used to form

the bags can contribute to leaching, it is brief. By letting the herbs

cool, I know that I have done what I can to minimize the potential.

Many do appreciate the convenience. I would prefer though, to know

that these bags are BPA-free.

 

And regarding the convenience, it must be a pretty special population

in Boulder to have most patients comply with cooking raw. I have a

family of four and my pharmacy is only 40 steps from my kitchen, yet I

find it challenging to keep up with our needs cooking raw herbs, as

needed, on a daily basis.

 

-Paul

[Guest guest]

Thanks Paul, it's good to see that these bottles are free of both BPA and

phthalates, though I'd like to see data to back it up.

 

 

 

Polycarbonate bottles (#7) leach BPA, many other plastics don't have BPA,

but contain various phthalates (DEHP, DBP, BBzP, etc) which are also very

problematic(1),2),(3). Supposedly polypropylene (#5)is reasonably safe,

which I've seen confirmed in at least one study.

 

 

 

Regarding heat releasing BPA, if you read the links I enclosed in my

previous email you would see that heat facilitates the release of BPA, but

it leaches at room temp as well, and in quantities great enough to be

estrogenic in animal studies http://tinyurl.com/uqce2. Unless the plastics

that we're using are both phthalate and BPA free, we have to ask ourselves

if we're part of the solution or part of the problem. In context or our

medical practices, I myself am not overly concerned about putting cool dry

granules in plastic for a short period, or buying them that way from

manufacturers (though I'd prefer the use of a safer plastic). When heat and

or liquid enter the picture then all bets are off unless we have specific

info from the manufacturer about why it's safe (with studies to back it up).

 

 

 

FTR, Whole Foods has switched to biodegradable potato starch for their

in-house " plasticware " . I've also had vegetable based bowls containing miso

soup purchased from Whole Foods and Trader Joe's (I forget the brand name).

 

 

 

 

 

1) Hauser, R, JD Meeker, S Duty, MJ Silva and AM Calafat 2006. Altered Semen

Quality in Relation to Urinary Concentrations of Phthalate Monoester and

Oxidative Metabolites. Epidemiology 17: 682-691

 

 

 

2) Marsee, K, TJ Woodruff, DA Axelrad, AM Calafat, and SH Swan. 2006.

Estimated Daily Phthalate Exposures in a Population of Mothers of Male

Infants Exhibiting Reduced Anogenital Distance. Environmental Health

Perspectives, in press.

 

 

 

3) Jouni J. K. Jaakkola, JJK, A Ieromnimon and MS Jaakkola. 2006. Interior

Surface Materials and Asthma in Adults: A Population-based Incident

Case-Control Study. American Journal of Epidemiology 164:742-749.

 

 

 

-Tim Sharpe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of pdgamache2

Saturday, June 07, 2008 4:34 PM

 

BPA-free soft plastic

 

 

 

Hi All,

 

 

 

Here you go. http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm

 

Obviously, the technology exists. Interesting that it is called

 

" medical grade. " The bottles can be found online for under $9.

 

 

 

Our plastic rolls from Korea could also be a " medical grade " . I would

 

love confirmation though, if anyone has access. This could well settle

 

this issue for ourselves and for the peace of mind of our patient

 

population.

 

 

 

According to the little bit of research I did, two main contributors

 

to facilitating the leaching of the BPA is heat and extended contact.

 

For my patients, I simply let the decoction cool in the bagging

 

machine holding tank, while the next batch cooks, before bagging. I

 

only make up to three weeks worth at a time, and recommend they toss

 

the herbs after a month if still unused. While the heat used to form

 

the bags can contribute to leaching, it is brief. By letting the herbs

 

cool, I know that I have done what I can to minimize the potential.

 

Many do appreciate the convenience. I would prefer though, to know

 

that these bags are BPA-free.

 

 

 

And regarding the convenience, it must be a pretty special population

 

in Boulder to have most patients comply with cooking raw. I have a

 

family of four and my pharmacy is only 40 steps from my kitchen, yet I

 

find it challenging to keep up with our needs cooking raw herbs, as

 

needed, on a daily basis.

 

 

 

-Paul

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a

practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

BTW, these bottles sell for around $12 in local stores here. You can

buy them at http://www.trisports.com/waca.html for $8-9 depending on

size. Enter the following code for an additional 10-15% off.

 

The code is shared by a triathlete friend who is sponsored by the store.

 

Enjoy!

 

-Paul

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link; I think these bottles " seem " better than previous

bottles. although time will tell.

 

 

 

Couple of comments:

 

 

 

1) These bottles are brand new (there press release was April 2008) - They

were developed because a large concern and demand for safer plastics. There

are millions of dollars at stake here. BTW- older less-safe plastics are

still available and used extensively.

 

2) I still fell pretty certain that these hard plastic bottles are a

different plastic technology than herb bags. I still am not convinced that

there exists a " plastic herb bag " that is safe. Is there any evidence that

these herb bags somehow utilize newer safe technology (that just got

released?)?

 

3) In my observation, there really is no incentive for herb bag companies to

spend the large amount of money it takes to develop such technology. Nor is

there incentive to even change to it (if it WAS available) at this point.

The safety awareness is too small when it comes to plastic, although it is

growing fast.

 

 

 

Furthermore, it seems that practitioners using the plastic bags don't even

know what they are made out of. What does " could also be a 'medical grade'

mean? No one is really asking the questions to the produces or demanding

higher safety standards. The first step is what are these made out of? (If

someone has a different perspective, please let me know). Until either

regulatory committees change or people stop buying unsafe plastics, there is

no reason for companies to change.

 

 

 

One could also bet, that with the current press around plastics, that if

these " bags " were made out of some super-duper new technology they would be

very clear in their marketing to explain this, and what exactly it was made

out of. But as mentioned, I really don't think they really care.

 

 

 

Finally, it is my experience in San Diego and Boulder (and I bet other

places) that getting people to take raw herbs is all about attitude. If you

can present the situation with confidence and the patient then sees quick

results (which is much more possible with raw herbs) then they will usually

do anything (meaning continue to cook herbs). We have to remember they want

to get better.

 

 

 

I find people come in with no time, but they are sick. When you explain how

much better and quicker bulk herbs are they will take them. Of course if you

offer a choice between pills (or granular) vs. bulk herb (that you have to

cook), as do many students, then of course what are they going to pick the

easy road.

 

 

 

BTW- you can have patients cook a weeks worth of herbs at one time. There is

no need to cook herbs " everyday. "

 

 

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of pdgamache2

Saturday, June 07, 2008 3:34 PM

 

BPA-free soft plastic

 

 

 

Hi All,

 

Here you go. http://www.camelbak <http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm>

..com/index.cfm

Obviously, the technology exists. Interesting that it is called

" medical grade. " The bottles can be found online for under $9.

 

Our plastic rolls from Korea could also be a " medical grade " . I would

love confirmation though, if anyone has access. This could well settle

this issue for ourselves and for the peace of mind of our patient

population.

 

According to the little bit of research I did, two main contributors

to facilitating the leaching of the BPA is heat and extended contact.

For my patients, I simply let the decoction cool in the bagging

machine holding tank, while the next batch cooks, before bagging. I

only make up to three weeks worth at a time, and recommend they toss

the herbs after a month if still unused. While the heat used to form

the bags can contribute to leaching, it is brief. By letting the herbs

cool, I know that I have done what I can to minimize the potential.

Many do appreciate the convenience. I would prefer though, to know

that these bags are BPA-free.

 

And regarding the convenience, it must be a pretty special population

in Boulder to have most patients comply with cooking raw. I have a

family of four and my pharmacy is only 40 steps from my kitchen, yet I

find it challenging to keep up with our needs cooking raw herbs, as

needed, on a daily basis.

 

-Paul

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You have to be suspicious when there's a sudden panic. Maybe the

plastic is bad - but the reality of the situation is very hard to

ascertain - unless 'Reduced Anogenital Distance' is critical. I just

find it interesting that people are angry about suspected price

gouging of gasoline, but don't bat an eye when they charge $11 for a

single 'born free' bpa free baby bottle at a natural health food

market and $2.96 for 3 at wally world!

 

Geoff

 

, " "

wrote:

>

> Thanks for the link; I think these bottles " seem " better than previous

> bottles. although time will tell.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just came across this recent press release from the FDA entitled:

FDA's Chief Scientist Asks Science Board Subcommittee to Review Research on

Bisphenol-Ahttp://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01847.html

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, G Hudson wrote:

 

-You have to be suspicious when there's a sudden panic. Maybe the

 

-plastic is bad - but the reality of the situation is very hard to

 

-ascertain - unless 'Reduced Anogenital Distance' is critical.

 

 

 

I assume you're trying to make light of the situation with your " anogenital

distance " comment. I've never heard a researcher lament that item.

Endocrine disruption and on a related note prostate disease are among the

big concerns, with research to back it up. The fact that the NIH and FDA

are revisiting this is significant considering it could brutalize industry.

Talk a walk down your grocery aisle and count the plastic wrapped items.

I'd be amazed if the FDA was ultimately critical of phthalates or BPA. I

think it would take results on the scale of Thalidomide to overwhelm the

economic pressure they must be facing.

 

 

 

As for the sudden panic, it's not a sudden panic, it's more a case of the

straw that broke the camel's back. It seems sudden b/c it just finally

surfaced on this forum, and resurfaced on the FDA radar. My teacher in grad

school Lindsey Berkson wrote Hormone Deception nearly 10 years ago. It was

one of the first cohesive texts on the issue, but the concept was active

long before then.

 

 

 

, G Hudson wrote:

 

-I just find it interesting that people are angry about suspected price

 

-gouging of gasoline, but don't bat an eye when they charge $11 for a

 

-single 'born free' bpa free baby bottle at a natural health food

 

-market and $2.96 for 3 at wally world!

 

 

 

Seriously Geoff? I haven't seen math like that since the last big pharma

funded cholesterol research. What's the annualized cost for purchasing fuel

vs baby bottles? My car costs $75 to fill one time. Recurring costs will

always be a bigger issue than insignificant one time costs like reusable

water bottles. If only my car ran on actual babies, now there's a renewable

resource.

 

 

 

-Tim Sharpe