Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 I am wondering if anyone has a formula for an external application (i.e. poultice or instruction for a cool patch) that can aid in the healing of a disc protrusion / herniation. If a diagnosis is needed please let me know. Thanks, -Jason <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=2600+30th+Street%2C+Suite+20 0 & csz=Boulder%2C+Co & country=us> 2600 30th Street, Suite 200 Boulder, Co 80301 <http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_simple_sig<=en> Want a signature like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:12 PM, < > wrote: > I am wondering if anyone has a formula for an external application (i.e. > poultice or instruction for a cool patch) that can aid in the healing of a > disc protrusion / herniation. If a diagnosis is needed please let me know. > -Jason > Hi Jason, It may not be helpful for the immediate need since it requires some advanced preparation, but I keep various liniments/poultices on hand at the clinic. If your patient is in the immediate/initial presentation of a disc protrusion/herniation, meaning the heat/redness/inflammation/swelling is predominant, a liniment as follows can be helpful (note: original source for this include Matt Callison as well as ideas pulled from Tooth from a Tiger's Tail...which I think is where Matt's ideas came from. I've made some minor changes over the years such as removing the Ma Qian Zi, adding Yan Hu Suo, San Qi and Zhi Zi. Also, instead of Bing Pian, I use Menthol Crystals (Bo He Nao) and/or add essential oils to finished product. I like to add the menthol and/or essential oils individually to suit the case) Chi Shao Rx Paeonia rubra 20 Da Huang Rx et Rz Rhei 20 Dan Shen Rx Salvia 15 Dang Gui Wei Rx Angelica sinensis 30 Gan Cao Rx Glycerrhiza 10 Gui Zhi Rm Cinnamomi 20 Hong Hua Fl Carthami 20 Yan Hu Suo Rz Corydalis 20 San Qi Rx Pseudoginseng 10 Mo Yao Myrrha 15 Ru Xiang Gummi Olibanum 15 Shen Jin Cao Hb cum Rx Lycopodi 20 Sheng Di Huang Rx Rhemannia glutinosa 20 Tian Nan Xing Rz Arisaematis 10 Xu Duan Rx Dipsaci 20 Yu Jin Tuber Curcuma 20 Zhi Zi Fl Gardenia 15 *Directions*: Put herbs in a large gallon-sized glass jar w/ a well-sealing lid. Add 3.5 liters of Vodka (3.78 liters = 1 gallon). Allow to soak for 1-2 months, or longer, in a dark area. To shorten the initial soak time, use ground herbs. If using ground herbs, shake the jar well after adding the alcohol and let soak for at least 14 days, continuing to shake the jar each day. When the tincture is ready, strain off and decant into amber glass bottles. Can use the dregs as a poultice (keep dregs covered w/ small amount of remaining liniment/alcohol). Can also make 2 of the same type at the same time. When pour off the 1st one, refill and let set, then when ready to use the 2nd one, the 1st one is done re-soaking. Keep up this rotation a couple times so will always have an active liniment. *Options*: ◠To make a cooling-mentholated liniment, add 6g Bing Pian/Borneol (2% of total ingredients) to ~1 gallon of finished product (after being strained off). Can substitute Bing Pian with Menthol Crystals (Bo He Nao/Menthol), 10-20g/~1gallon or as individual case dictates, Bo He Nao is derived from Mint/Mentha Arvensis distillation process. ( Note that purified, concentrated Menthol is toxic & not for internal use.)  Remember to use caution when using a mentholated product in conjunction with a heat source (hot pack, TDP lamp, etc.) to avoid burning the skin. Also, highly mentholated products may cause local irritation if massaged for too long – keep it to 5 minutes. ◠If desired, add Essential Oils to the finished product at a rate of 1% dilution (6 drops per 1 oz = 1%). Can use Peppermint Essential Oil as substitute for Bing Pian. I also like to add essential oil of Helichrysum - very potent pain relief/anit-inflammatory - to the individual bottle I'm dispensing. Vetiver is also a good choice, as is Frankincense (the EO of ru xiang). If you don't have the liniment on hand or time to make, an essential oil application of the 4 EO's mentioned above can be used in dilution (I just use olive oil, but if you like safflower/hong hua that's good too) - I'd probably go at a 6 to 10% total dilution of EO's in this case. I also make variations on the above recipe tp use, for example, for instances when swelling/edema are very prominent. To apply the liniment as a poultice, use those 4x4 gauze squares soaked a bit in the liniment to cover the affected area. Place something over the gauze to prevent too-rapid evaporation/drying out of the gauze. I was going to say use " plastic wrap " but in light of recent discussions, we'll just have to find something else...can just keep re-wetting the gauze suppose. It will make a bit of a drippy mess, so be prepared for that. In my notes at home I have the recipe for an external powdered poultice that works well...I prefer the liniments because they are easier to use and I feel safer about sending them home, however I also use the powdered raw-herb poultices in the clinic (works really well for sprained ankles and such) but rarely send them home because of some of the ingredients and the mess involved...there is also a local LAc who makes up a bunch of external apps formulas, " a la " Matt Callison's teaching, including the powdered poultices...anyway, if you want that contact info, or the poultice recipe, let me know and I'll look that up when I get home tonight...thought I had that recipe at the clinic, but must be on my other harddrive. One side note about purchasing a lot of vodka at one time to make liniments...I recommend you " spread the love " so to speak. You'll get very funny looks from fellow shoppers/checkers when you pile up 7+ large (1.75 litter) bottles of vodka onto the check-out stand all at once...I know this from experience:-} Can be a little embarrassing... Joy ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Joy, Thanks for the post. This formula is actually almost the exact prescription that I use for my acute liniment that I also make in a similar way as you :-) - I appreciate the tips on the additional oils! However, I wonder if this type of formula can really aid in the repair of a disc herniation. I do agree that it can be used to decrease swelling, inflammation etc. in the initial stages. Is this all that is needed to repair such a problem? Have you repaired discs with either your liniment or poultices before? Alon what do you do? Maybe I should give some more information; I am looking for something for a more long-term problem, preferable a poultice or instructions on making a specific patch. I would be interested in your poultice recipes. Wei labs has some very interesting style of patches. I have used a bunch of these, and have found them fairly successful (they give a lot of free samples). However they are very expensive. I would though like to understand how to make these style of patches. They should be easy enough. They have some herb paste that they put on an adhesive patch. Does anyone know how to make these? -Jason _____ On Behalf Of Joy Keller Monday, June 09, 2008 8:23 PM Re: Disc protrusion On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:12 PM, < @chinesemed <%40Chinese Medicine> icinedoc.com> wrote: > I am wondering if anyone has a formula for an external application (i.e. > poultice or instruction for a cool patch) that can aid in the healing of a > disc protrusion / herniation. If a diagnosis is needed please let me know. > -Jason > Hi Jason, It may not be helpful for the immediate need since it requires some advanced preparation, but I keep various liniments/poultices on hand at the clinic. If your patient is in the immediate/initial presentation of a disc protrusion/herniation, meaning the heat/redness/inflammation/swelling is predominant, a liniment as follows can be helpful (note: original source for this include Matt Callison as well as ideas pulled from Tooth from a Tiger's Tail...which I think is where Matt's ideas came from. I've made some minor changes over the years such as removing the Ma Qian Zi, adding Yan Hu Suo, San Qi and Zhi Zi. Also, instead of Bing Pian, I use Menthol Crystals (Bo He Nao) and/or add essential oils to finished product. I like to add the menthol and/or essential oils individually to suit the case) Chi Sha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 , " Joy Keller " > It may not be helpful for the immediate need since it requires some advanced > preparation, but I keep various liniments/poultices on hand at the clinic. Jason and Joy, I've been making hit medicine liniments since 1990, first through teachings at a traditional gongfu school, then I gained more herbal knowledge and instruction at PCOM. Anyway, a few years ago, I tried using Mayway's 5:1 single herb extract powders to make some liniment. It seemed to work just as well for me and for my patients. Basically, I just divide the # of grams of each raw herb ingredient by 5 to get the new dose. I add the powder to the normal amount of vodka based on the recipe. If I want to add bing pian or zhang nao or some other such ingredient, I use the raw herb and add it to the final product. The benefit is that there is no waiting, no needing to soak or age, it is instant liniment, ready to go. For what it's worth, no, I have not done a large study to see if the effects are the same or better or worse than the traditional method, but like I said, it does work for me and my patients. Brian C. Allen, MSTOM Oriental Medicine and Health Services http://omhs.biz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Brian, Interesting method, it seems reasonable to me.. but maybe we should wait for a large scale study :-) Anyway, have you had some success with healing disc herniations, do you have any external formulas you would like to share that you have found successful? It seems like such a common complaint, I am surprised not to find more material about it. Thanks for the post, -Jason _____ On Behalf Of bcataiji Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:02 AM Re: Disc protrusion @ <%40> , " Joy Keller " > It may not be helpful for the immediate need since it requires some advanced > preparation, but I keep various liniments/poultices on hand at the clinic. Jason and Joy, I've been making hit medicine liniments since 1990, first through teachings at a traditional gongfu school, then I gained more herbal knowledge and instruction at PCOM. Anyway, a few years ago, I tried using Mayway's 5:1 single herb extract powders to make some liniment. It seemed to work just as well for me and for my patients. Basically, I just divide the # of grams of each raw herb ingredient by 5 to get the new dose. I add the powder to the normal amount of vodka based on the recipe. If I want to add bing pian or zhang nao or some other such ingredient, I use the raw herb and add it to the final product. The benefit is that there is no waiting, no needing to soak or age, it is instant liniment, ready to go. For what it's worth, no, I have not done a large study to see if the effects are the same or better or worse than the traditional method, but like I said, it does work for me and my patients. Brian C. Allen, MSTOM Oriental Medicine and Health Services http://omhs. <http://omhs.biz> biz __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3173 (20080610) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 , " " wrote: > Anyway, have you had some success with healing disc herniations, do you have > any external formulas you would like to share that you have found > successful? No, I haven't used liniment directly for healing a disc herniation. When dealing with disc herniations and bulges, I use acupuncture primarily (open the Du mai and UB TMM + local huato & Du points at, above, and below the level, plus ahshi in the local musculature). I use liniment secondarily and instruct to use it several times daily, just to keep the qi & blood moving in the local area and to keep the local musculature out of spasm. I don't want to muscles pulling the discs tighter together. I also give them stretching exercises to emphasize elongating the spine. I would definitely be interested to know if a specific external formula could have a direct effect on disc herniation healing. That would be a great addition to any protocol. Brian C. Allen, MSTOM Oriental Medicine and Health Services http://omhs.biz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I've had good luck with the below combined with an inversion table at about 30 degrees for 10 minutes twice a day. David Molony bcataiji <bcataiji Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:50 am Re: Disc protrusion , " " wrote: > Anyway, have you had some success with healing disc herniations, do you have > any external formulas you would like to share that you have found > successful? No, I haven't used liniment directly for healing a disc herniation. When dealing with disc herniations and bulges, I use acupuncture primarily (open the Du mai and UB TMM + local huato & Du points at, above, and below the level, plus ahshi in the local musculature). I use liniment secondarily and instruct to use it several times daily, just to keep the qi & blood moving in the local area and to keep the local musculature out of spasm. I don't want to muscles pulling the discs tighter together. I also give them stretching exercises to emphasize elongating the spine. I would definitely be interested to know if a specific external formula could have a direct effect on disc herniation healing. That would be a great addition to any protocol. Brian C. Allen, MSTOM Oriental Medicine and Health Services http://omhs.biz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hi Jason, I don't have a specific formula on hand here, but I always use caster oil for this problem, both with and without herbs infused into it (or sometimes as a plaster). I strongly believe, based on my experience, sorry don't have any double-blind randomized studies to back it up :-), that the caster oil is extremely important in these and many other cases. And yes, I believe it will help heal the disc protrusion. Thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Sorry this site is in desperate need of remodeling, but I can not view it from here, so I have not been able to up-date it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Jason, 1.) In the Guiding Journal of TCM, Dec 2005 is an article by two Cantonese doctors (Liu Li & Zhang Lei) entitled " Summary on the Treatment of 93 Cases of Lumbar Intervertebral Disc Protrusion With Draught and Acupuncture and Fumigating With Chinese Herbs " The herbs that they use with their & #29071; & #33976; xun1zheng1, fuming and steaming method are: chuan wu, cao wu, ru xiang, mo yao, su mu, tu bie chong, qing feng teng, hong hua, ze lan, jiang huang, ai ye, tou gu cao, shen jin cao, and some more herbs that are all mysteriously labelled " & #31561; deng3 " ;-) There should be 21 herbs altogether. They are used in a steaming table, herbs being placed in a hole in the table, adding temperature and having the patient lie on the table with his back exposed to the steam. 10 treatments equal one course. Three treatment groups: one traction + AP (74.3% effective), one traction + fuming and steaming (77.1% effective) and one traction & AP & fuming and steaming combined (91.4% effective, with a higher rate of complete cures). Statistical difference P<0.01 between the combined treatments and the AP or steaming alone. From the discussion: & #20013; & #33647; & #29071; & #33976; & #20027; & #35201; & #20511; & #21161; & #28201; & #24230;\ & #21644; & #33647; & #29289; & #20316; & #29992; & #65292; & #33268; & #20351; & #30382; & #32932; & #21644; & #23616; & #37096; & #30340; & #34880; & #31649; & #25193; & #24352; & #65292; & #20419;\ & #36827; & #23616; & #37096; & #34880; & #28082; & #24490; & #29615; & #65292; & #26494; & #35299;\ & #23616; & #37096; & #32452; & #32455; & #65292; & #25913; & #21892; & #32452; & #32455; & #33829; & #20859; & #65292; & #20174;\ & #32780; & #36798; & #21040; & #30095; & #36890; & #32463; & #32476; & #65292; & #27963; & #34880;\ & #21270; & #30208; & #12289; & #21033; & #28287; & #28040; & #32959; & #12289; & #28201; & #32463; & #31067; & #39118; & #12289; & #24378;\ & #31563; & #20581; & #39592; & #30340; & #20316; & #29992; Chinese herbal fuming and steaming works mainly by virtue of the effect of the temperature and the medicinals. It causes dilatation of the skin and local blood vessels, thus improving local blood circulation, relaxing local tissues, improving nourishment of the tissues. Consequently it can free the channels and network vessels, quicken the blood and transform stasis, disinhibit dampness and reduce swelling, warm the channels and dispel wind, strengthen the sinews and fortify the bones. 2.) from another article by Su Ju-Jian and Hu Yi-cheng (Chinese J Trad Med Trauma Orthop, October 2005, Vol. 13, No. 5): Study on Therapies of Prolapse of lumbar Intervertebral disc by 2168 Cases It summarizes several treatment (including surgery) for treatment of disc prolapse. It has one section on fuming and steaming with the following formula: ru xiang 10 mo yao 10 tao ren 10 hong hua 10 chi shao 10 ze lan 10 yan hu suo 10 dan shen 10 chuan xiong 10 kuan jin teng 10 (Tinosporae Sinensis Caulis) shen jin cao 10 chuan niu xi 15 dang gui 10 bo he nao 6 (Menthol) zhang nao 6 (Camphor) san qi 10 30 mins of steaming Btw in this study surgical methods have a slightly better effect than the non-surgical methods (95.5% effective to 89.6%, no statistically significant difference between the two) 3.) there's an another entry in a journal (Tianjin journal of chinese medicine) that has a report on using Chinese herbs in an ionizer. Not sure how that works. The formula used is similar to the first formula above, with strong wind-damp clearing herbs (but with gui zhi and bai zhi) Jason (or others), if you would like to see the articles for yourself, please send me a message : tom (dot) verhaeghe (at) acupunctuur (dot) org Best, Tom. , " " wrote: > > I am wondering if anyone has a formula for an external application (i.e. > poultice or instruction for a cool patch) that can aid in the healing of a > disc protrusion / herniation. If a diagnosis is needed please let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thomas, Nice idea. Could you explain how you infuse the oil with herbs? Do you just soak the herbs for a day or so? Thanks, -Jason _____ On Behalf Of Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:20 PM Re: Disc protrusion Hi Jason, I don't have a specific formula on hand here, but I always use caster oil for this problem, both with and without herbs infused into it (or sometimes as a plaster). I strongly believe, based on my experience, sorry don't have any double-blind randomized studies to back it up :-), that the caster oil is extremely important in these and many other cases. And yes, I believe it will help heal the disc protrusion. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thomas, One more question. Do you have a Chinese MM entry for Caster oil? -Jason _____ On Behalf Of Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:20 PM Re: Disc protrusion Hi Jason, I don't have a specific formula on hand here, but I always use caster oil for this problem, both with and without herbs infused into it (or sometimes as a plaster). I strongly believe, based on my experience, sorry don't have any double-blind randomized studies to back it up :-), that the caster oil is extremely important in these and many other cases. And yes, I believe it will help heal the disc protrusion. Thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide thomas@sourcepointh <thomas%40sourcepointherbs.org> erbs.org www.sourcepointherbs.org Sorry this site is in desperate need of remodeling, but I can not view it from here, so I have not been able to up-date it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Zhong Yi Da Ci Dian, p. 2448: Bi Ma You (Oleum Ricini Communis). However, see p. 2446 for the description of Bi Ma Zi (Semen Ricini Communis) for a fuller understanding of medicinal flavor, nature, and function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hi Jason, I have tons of them, but you can use commercially available 701 Die Da Zhi Tong Gao and stick them on - but I would suggest perhaps giving the patient Kang Gu Zeng Sheng Pian and Yao Tong Pian, adjusting the dose for body weight and a few exercises like the Hindu Squats, Pushups and Arm Swings (i.e. Patting the Ming Men) - at least 10 reps of the exercise repeated every hour that one is conscious. I had a patient with 4 herniated discs and rehabiltated her with the above protcol. No surgery necessary. BTW, she's doing 500 squats, and 500 swings a day. She needs to do more push ups. Best regards, On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:12 PM, < > wrote: > I am wondering if anyone has a formula for an external application (i.e. > poultice or instruction for a cool patch) that can aid in the healing of a > disc protrusion / herniation. If a diagnosis is needed please let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Jason > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 about 72 hours in a crock pot at about 110 degree F I have tried several combinations...but I often use the oil as a base for a " plaster " grinding the medicinals into a powder then using the oil as a binder.....this allows me to adjust the formula as I see fit for an individual case without being stuck to a " standard " formula, never been a big fan of such things. btw, I almost always use both western and chinese herbs, including essential oils like wintergreen...of course this depends on the situation. thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Sorry this site is in desperate need of remodeling, but I can not view it from here, so I have not been able to up-date it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't have an entry, but Bob put one out there....if I remember, the entry does not cover using the medicinal externally...but it has been a while since I looked at it. I am a big castor oil fan and use in in many external preparations for various traumas, I will give Edgar Casy the credit for this, and a couple of my teachers have used it. I don't know anyone else who has made these types of preps, but I gotta tell you, they work really well....if only I liked external medicine more, I would specialize in it....just not a big fan....I prefer the internal medicine....but then again, it was never easy to specialize in the states....hopefully when I return to practice there I will be able to do it....sorry for the musing, it's after 2am here....gotta get some sleep. thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Sorry this site is in desperate need of remodeling, but I can not view it from here, so I have not been able to up-date it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 How do you apply the caster oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Jason, To add to Thomas' suggestion about soaking herbs in a crock pot for 72hrs - Many of the resinous herbs used in external medicine such as Mo Yao, Ru Xiang, and Xue Jie are barely oil soluble. We've found that grinding them into powder, and mixing in enough ethanol to moisten the herbs but not enough to form a paste, and letting it sit for a few hours before putting extracting in oil helps more of the resinous matter get into solution when you finally press out the oil. Benjamin Zappin www.fiveflavorsherbs.com : : Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:46:02 -0600RE: Re: Disc protrusion Thomas,Nice idea. Could you explain how you infuse the oil with herbs? Do you justsoak the herbs for a day or so?Thanks,-Jason_____ [ ] On Behalf Of Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:20 PMTo: : Re: Disc protrusionHi Jason, I don't have a specific formula on hand here, but I always use caster oilfor this problem, both with and without herbs infused into it (or sometimesas a plaster). I strongly believe, based on my experience, sorry don't haveany double-blind randomized studies to back it up :-), that the caster oilis extremely important in these and many other cases. And yes, I believe itwill help heal the disc protrusion.Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I agree completely with Ben's suggestion to use alcohol prior to dong the oil extraction.... Alon, I have the patient apply the oil, or compound (plaster, etc) using a cotton cloth (if it is a plaster, there is no need for the cloth) I have them pre-heat the whole thing in a toaster oven or the like (no microwaves please) and then covering it with a little plastic wrap and applying heat (I prefer a hot water bottle, but an electric heating " blanket " will suffice. I tell them to leave it on for at least 20 minutes and two applications a day are preferred. For the plasters I usually instruct them to fasten it on for the evening and even to sleep with it. Thomas Beijing, China Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide www.sourcepointherbs.org Sorry this site is in desperate need of remodeling, but I can not view it from here, so I have not been able to up-date it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Robert, If you don't mind sharing a couple of these prescriptions it would be much appreciated. Thanks, -Jason _____ On Behalf Of Robert Chu Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:59 AM Re: Disc protrusion Hi Jason, I have tons of them, but you can use commercially available 701 Die Da Zhi Tong Gao and stick them on - but I would suggest perhaps giving the patient Kang Gu Zeng Sheng Pian and Yao Tong Pian, adjusting the dose for body weight and a few exercises like the Hindu Squats, Pushups and Arm Swings (i.e. Patting the Ming Men) - at least 10 reps of the exercise repeated every hour that one is conscious. I had a patient with 4 herniated discs and rehabiltated her with the above protcol. No surgery necessary. BTW, she's doing 500 squats, and 500 swings a day. She needs to do more push ups. Best regards, On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:12 PM, < @chinesemed <%40Chinese Medicine> icinedoc.com> wrote: > I am wondering if anyone has a formula for an external application (i.e. > poultice or instruction for a cool patch) that can aid in the healing of a > disc protrusion / herniation. If a diagnosis is needed please let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Jason > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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