congrats

[Guest guest]

Congrats to Lorraine Wilcox on her moxa book which recently came out. A Blue

Poppy

publication. It reads well and also seems to very well designed. good going!

Doug

[Guest guest]

Yes Lorraine,

 

I received your book last week and am so appreciative of it's

usefulness and scope. Quite an accomplishment!

 

Thanks

 

Sharon

 

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug,

 

Thanks so much for your words! It is nice to hear that someone is reading it :-)

 

I also want to congratulate Jason Robertson on his Applied Channel Theory book

with Wang Juyi. I am enjoying reading it. Not only is the information good, but

the book has personality. I like the dialogs with Dr. Wang and the descriptions

of moving around Beijing as well as the ideas discussed.

 

I have to teach point categories next week so I am reading the related section

now, looking for additional insights. I think it is an important book.

 

Lorraine Wilcox Ph.D., L.Ac.

 

 

Posted by: " "  

Sat Jul 5, 2008 2:52 pm (PDT)

 

Congrats to Lorraine Wilcox on her moxa book which recently came out. A Blue

Poppy publication. It reads well and also seems to very well designed. good

going!

Doug

[Guest guest]

I'd also like to recommend Jason's book. I have a review of it on my

website at

 

http://taiqi.com/Applied.htm

 

I'll be changing the review a little and format it to the site but

please take a look until I can get to that. It's really an important

link between so many approaches and " schools " of acupuncture.

Doug

 

 

 

 

, " Lorraine Wilcox L.Ac. "

<xuankong wrote:

>

> Hi Doug,

>

> Thanks so much for your words! It is nice to hear that someone is

reading it :-)

>

> I also want to congratulate Jason Robertson on his Applied Channel

Theory book with Wang Juyi. I am enjoying reading it. Not only is the

information good, but the book has personality. I like the dialogs

with Dr. Wang and the descriptions of moving around Beijing as well as

the ideas discussed.

>

> I have to teach point categories next week so I am reading the

related section now, looking for additional insights. I think it is an

important book.

>

> Lorraine Wilcox Ph.D., L.Ac.

>

>

> Posted by: " "

> Sat Jul 5, 2008 2:52 pm (PDT)

>

> Congrats to Lorraine Wilcox on her moxa book which recently came

out. A Blue Poppy publication. It reads well and also seems to very

well designed. good going!

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

The Wang Juyi book, along with your moxabustion text, are the best

books on acupuncture and moxabustion I've seen in many years. I am

enjoying them both immensely.

 

While I have your attention, your bio on the book says that you are

self-taught in medical Chinese. Obviously you have a very high skill

level in classical Chinese judging by the translation work in the

text. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share how you were able

to reach such a high level of reading and translation skills, as this

is something I've been struggling with for years.

 

 

On Jul 6, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Lorraine Wilcox L.Ac. wrote:

 

> Hi Doug,

>

> Thanks so much for your words! It is nice to hear that someone is

> reading it :-)

>

> I also want to congratulate Jason Robertson on his Applied Channel

> Theory book with Wang Juyi. I am enjoying reading it. Not only is

> the information good, but the book has personality. I like the

> dialogs with Dr. Wang and the descriptions of moving around Beijing

> as well as the ideas discussed.

>

> I have to teach point categories next week so I am reading the

> related section now, looking for additional insights. I think it is

> an important book.

>

> Lorraine Wilcox Ph.D., L.Ac.

>

> Posted by: " "

> Sat Jul 5, 2008 2:52 pm (PDT)

>

> Congrats to Lorraine Wilcox on her moxa book which recently came

> out. A Blue Poppy publication. It reads well and also seems to very

> well designed. good going!

> Doug

>

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree with your review more, Doug. Indeed this book is a

breath of fresh air, applying classical theory in a most practical

fashion. I am also a bit tired with the various methods that are

sprouting up like mushrooms.

 

 

 

 

 

" Applied Channel Theory comes at a time when needs a

little help. Even as the popularity of acupuncture increases around

the world, its roots often seems to have been lost for a practical and

expedient functionality. The process started in China over 100 years

ago and has been accelerated in all forms of acupuncture education and

practice. While some have attempted to tie modern practice to the

classics, the original writings have been notoriously difficult texts

for ages. Indeed, most of our classics are attempts to explain other

writings now either existent or lost. As a result, classical concepts

of acupuncture all too often are either fetishized or abandoned as

quaint. The latter is perhaps more common where the consensus is that

" acupuncture works " but not perhaps in the ways that have been

traditionally explained.Wang looks beyond the physiological metaphors

and tells us why the ancients may have had it right all along.

 

When a chapter from Applied Channel Theory was released to the Journal

of , I was a bit disappointed as it seems that the

book would simply concern the palpation method of finding the points

and diagnosis. Nothing could be further from the truth. Applied

Channel Theory discusses the roots of acupuncture theory and so

bridges the growing gap between acupuncture and herbal treatments. The

future of acupuncture is not in another Method be it Tung, Tan or

Wang. Applied Channel Theory doesn't necessarily demand any Method

although it does answer how the Neijing might approach it. Instead,

the value of the book functions as a follow up to every TCM book we

have ever seen. It takes up where Giovanni leaves off and explores

what CAM only hints at. It takes Pirog and runs with it.This is one of

the few TCM books that I wanted to read from front cover to back. And

when I finished it, I started again from the front and reread it. It's

that good. It is that necessary. "

On Jul 6, 2008, at 2:56 PM, wrote:

 

> I'd also like to recommend Jason's book. I have a review of it on my

> website at

>

> http://taiqi.com/Applied.htm

>

> I'll be changing the review a little and format it to the site but

> please take a look until I can get to that. It's really an important

> link between so many approaches and " schools " of acupuncture.

> Doug

>

> , " Lorraine Wilcox L.Ac. "

> <xuankong wrote:

> >

> > Hi Doug,

> >

> > Thanks so much for your words! It is nice to hear that someone is

> reading it :-)

> >

> > I also want to congratulate Jason Robertson on his Applied Channel

> Theory book with Wang Juyi. I am enjoying reading it. Not only is the

> information good, but the book has personality. I like the dialogs

> with Dr. Wang and the descriptions of moving around Beijing as well as

> the ideas discussed.

> >

> > I have to teach point categories next week so I am reading the

> related section now, looking for additional insights. I think it is an

> important book.

> >

> > Lorraine Wilcox Ph.D., L.Ac.

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " "

> > Sat Jul 5, 2008 2:52 pm (PDT)

> >

> > Congrats to Lorraine Wilcox on her moxa book which recently came

> out. A Blue Poppy publication. It reads well and also seems to very

> well designed. good going!

> > Doug

> >

>

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Lorraine Wilcox L.Ac. "

<xuankong wrote:

>

> Hi Doug,

>

> Thanks so much for your words! It is nice to hear that someone is

reading it :-)

>

> I also want to congratulate Jason Robertson on his Applied Channel

Theory book with Wang Juyi. I am enjoying reading it. Not only is the

information good, but the book has personality. I like the dialogs

with Dr. Wang and the descriptions of moving around Beijing as well as

the ideas discussed.

 

I'll certainly second these two book recommendations. Lorraine's book

on moxa is fantastic; it has a level of scholarship and authenticity

that is rarely encountered in the English CM literature, and it's full

of fascinating facts and hard-to-find information.

 

One thing that I was interested to discover in Lorraine's book was the

fact that the use of pole moxa entered Chinese medicine in the Ming

Dynasty, around 500 years ago or so.

 

At PCOM, we have a few teachers of Japanese acupuncture that have a

tendency to espouse slightly extreme ideologies, i.e., basically

everything Japanese is good and everything Chinese is bad. They scorn

pole moxa and send the message to the more gullible students that only

direct moxa has value. Many of the students, not having been exposed

to the host cultures, do not realize that such extreme statements tend

to come more from old racial prejudices rather than any inherent

superiority on the part of either Japanese or Chinese medicine. A few

old school teachers pass their WWII-era racial prejudices on to their

students under the veil of a critique on a medical style, and the next

thing you know there is a division of belief among students that pole

moxa has no value.

 

Enter Lorraine's book and the historical overview of moxa. Turns out

the moxa stick came into fashion several hundred years after China and

Japan became politically isolated and their medical styles became

differentiated, so pole moxa was primarily a Chinese phenomenon.

Thus, the difference in clinical potential of pole vs. direct moxa was

likely never a main focus of the Japanese investigations into

moxibustion (please correct me if I am wrong, I have no expertise in

this topic). Anyway, as soon as I read Lorraine's historical

overview, something clicked for me. I realized that the source of the

whole direct vs. pole debate was essentially just the same ageless

racial bias rearing its ugly head again.

 

Jason's book is also great. I was flipping through it and reading

some of the interviews with Dr. Wang, and there were some really great

perspectives. I was happy to see that PCOM students are reading it,

it is good to see them exposed to acupuncture material that goes

beyond the textbook yet preserves the integrity of Chinese medicine.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sharon and Zev!

 

Wow, Zev, kind words :-)

 

I am actually a little embarrassed by my Chinese reading ability. It

is very uneven. At moments I think I am brilliant in my understanding

and then the next sentence totally baffles me!

 

This book was more or less my dissertation, which I worked on for

some years. And when I was stuck, one of my advisors, Chen Yongping,

would give me a hand. Without her for backup, I would have been in

trouble. And since it consisted of excerpts, if something totally got

the better of me, I could omit it :-) (I didn't let that happen too

often.)

 

Basically, I have played with Chinese for years. I have a million

dictionaries (Chinese-English and all Chinese), a few books on

grammar and classical Chinese, and a lot of obsession.

 

And time travel to the Ming is not so far as visiting your Han

destination.

 

I find translation can be a meditative process. First you go through

the tedious looking up the words you don't know and trying to put it

in semi-decent English. But at some point, you have to get rid of the

words and try to meet the author's mind. What is he trying to tell

me? What did he know at the time? What was familiar in his life and

so he assumed he didn't have to mention it? It comes more alive when

I do that. Unfortunately, sometimes they like to keep secrets from me

and I cannot get on their wavelength. Then I have to put it down for

a week and try later.

 

Anyway, I use to have all kind of bad addictions and obsessions when

I was younger. I still get obsessed, but now it is on things that

won't harm me, like trying to decode these old doctors. So obsession

works :-)

 

Lorraine

 

,

<zrosenbe wrote:

>

> The Wang Juyi book, along with your moxabustion text, are the best

> books on acupuncture and moxabustion I've seen in many years. I

am

> enjoying them both immensely.

>

> While I have your attention, your bio on the book says that you

are

> self-taught in medical Chinese. Obviously you have a very high

skill

> level in classical Chinese judging by the translation work in the

> text. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share how you were

able

> to reach such a high level of reading and translation skills, as

this

> is something I've been struggling with for years.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric,

 

I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Until recently, I have not been very

exposed to Japanese style moxibustion. In May (I think) I went to a

seminar by Junji Mizutani in Berkeley. He primaily used direct moxa,

but he also showed us some techniques with a moxa stick (pressing

moxibustion). Besides this great seminar, I don't know so much about

Japanese styles.

 

However, your comments make perfect sense. The Japanese don't use a

lot of the later developments of Chinese medicine, so I think your

logic is probably correct.

 

Anyway, I had also developed some anti-moxa stick attitude myself as

I think many people use it because they are lazy. But when I saw how

revered it was in those days, I looked at it with new respect.

 

In any case, my personal feeling is that direct moxa should be the

default and all the variations (stick, warm needle, indirect, etc.)

should be used when they are the best modality for the specific

situation. (But I am not the moxa-police.)

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It gave me a new

perspective.

 

Lorraine

 

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus wrote:

> One thing that I was interested to discover in Lorraine's book was

the

> fact that the use of pole moxa entered Chinese medicine in the Ming

> Dynasty, around 500 years ago or so...

>

> Turns out

> the moxa stick came into fashion several hundred years after China

and

> Japan became politically isolated and their medical styles became

> differentiated, so pole moxa was primarily a Chinese phenomenon.

[Guest guest]

Lorraine, Doug, Eric and Z'ev

 

Deepest thanks to all of you for taking a look at Applied Channel Theory and for

your kind comments. Lorraine, I have heard extremely enthusiastic reports of

your moxibustion work as well and plan to delve in once I surface from the first

months of my young daughter's life! Your description of the slow chewing of

classical texts sounds familiar.  There is so much isn't there?

 

Doug, your review is thorough and captures perfectly what Dr. Wang Ju-yi and I

are trying to convey- namely, the importance of dialogue. Years of

spending many hours each month in libraries next to stacks of dictionaries have

bourne some fruit as I begin to get feedback from honored colleagues like

yourself.

 

I'm quite happy to see our little corner of the medical field expanding and,

most importantly, deepening as it has in recent years.  I look forward to seeing

more works bringing classical concepts into English.

 

To those of you out there with Chinese skills (either native or learned): go to

China, hook onto some of these fading gems of past generations and delve into

their minds. There is something to be said for the dialogue that can be inspired

by the questions of a foreign novice with a pair of open ears.

 

The types of questions we are asking are important and, not surprisingly, are

the same questions that have been discussed for many, many generations. Somehow,

each time and place comes up with new variations on the ancient themes. Ours is

yet another movement in the symphony. Part of the whole but adapted to our own

time with its unique flaws.

 

Most Respectfully,

 

Jason Robertson

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason,

 

Then another congratulations to you !!!!!

 

Lorraine

 

Lorraine Wilcox Ph.D., L.Ac.

 

, Jason Robertson

<kentuckyginseng wrote:

> Lorraine, I have heard extremely enthusiastic reports of your

moxibustion work as well and plan to delve in once I surface from the

first months of my young daughter's life! ...  

> Jason Robertson

[Guest guest]

 

 

Doug wrote:

 

One thing I would like to ask (and wanted to put in my review) is my impression

that

perhaps Dr. Wang had a relative amount of freedom because it wasn't going to be

published in China first. In other words, he could take a few more chances

without risking

comments from his colleagues. (Perhaps he is more confident than that and I'm

just

projecting!)

 

I don't think that he (or many others) are worried these days about the

possibility of any kind of official censure for things said or written in the CM

field-  if that is what you are asking.  For example, there is very lively

debate these days in Beijing and elsewhere about the relative merits of a more

western-medicine weighted curriculum in the TCM schools.  Some very

strong opinions have been voiced regarding the importance of classical texts and

training in critical reading of those works. 

 

In fact, Dr. Wang traveled a few years ago to Chengdu and gave a keynote address

where he berated many in attendance for letting the beauty of our medicine slip

through their fingers by neglecting basic training in seminal texts. His point

was that the field must have confidence in and fluency with core concepts;

otherwise we are working with one hand behind our back and practicing with only

a shadow of what is possible.

 

Sound familiar?

 

In any case, he was a bit wary of publishing such an extensive work in Chinese

as he is quite convinced that many would simply appropriate large sections of

his treatise and claim it as their own work.  This seems to have happened not

only to him but to others of his generation; I'm not sure about the details on

this...

 

Respectfully,

 

Jason Robertson

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the response, Jason. I wasn't so much asking about official

censure (or punishment to be extreme) but rather that the book allowed

him to stretch out whereas he may be more " expected " to write the

" boring text book " (he didn't want to write) if it were to be released

through say, the Beijing Academy press in Chinese. Well, I'm not sure

if its not a silly question, nevertheless I did sense a kind of

freedom. Perhaps it was him, perhaps the ideas, perhaps it was the

Form, perhaps it was you, probably it was the synergy of all the above.

Doug

 

 

 

, Jason Robertson

<kentuckyginseng wrote:

>

>

>

> Doug wrote:

>

> One thing I would like to ask (and wanted to put in my review) is my

impression that

> perhaps Dr. Wang had a relative amount of freedom because it wasn't

going to be

> published in China first. In other words, he could take a few more

chances without risking

> comments from his colleagues. (Perhaps he is more confident than

that and I'm just

> projecting!)

>

> I don't think that he (or many others) are worried these days

about the possibility of any kind of official censure for things said

or written in the CM field- if that is what you are asking. For

example, there is very lively debate these days in Beijing and

elsewhere about the relative merits of a more

western-medicine weighted curriculum in the TCM schools. Some very

strong opinions have been voiced regarding the importance of classical

texts and training in critical reading of those works.

>

> In fact, Dr. Wang traveled a few years ago to Chengdu and gave a

keynote address where he berated many in attendance for letting the

beauty of our medicine slip through their fingers by neglecting basic

training in seminal texts. His point was that the field must have

confidence in and fluency with core concepts; otherwise we are working

with one hand behind our back and practicing with only a shadow of

what is possible.

>

> Sound familiar?

>

> In any case, he was a bit wary of publishing such an extensive work

in Chinese as he is quite convinced that many would simply appropriate

large sections of his treatise and claim it as their own work. This

seems to have happened not only to him but to others of his

generation; I'm not sure about the details on this...

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Jason Robertson

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " "

wrote:

>

Perhaps it was him, perhaps the ideas, perhaps it was the

> Form, perhaps it was you, probably it was the synergy of all the above.

 

The synergy responsible for Jason's book was relatively simple,

incredibly obvious yet all too rarely pursued: Jason went to China,

learned Chinese, assimilated into the culture, found a great treasure

of a teacher, asked intelligent questions based upon a solid

understanding of basic Chinese medicine, and then communicated what he

learned to us here in the West.

 

Having had the pleasure of meeting Jason and Dr. Wang in Beijing for a

brief tour of the clinic and a delicious session of roast duck, I can

tell you that Dr. Wang is the real thing, and Jason is the exact type

of model student that allows our profession to truly grow. Jason

speaks excellent Chinese and he truly understands the culture and

interacts respectfully and smoothly. He formed a true relationship

with a great teacher, and he has the language skills and the Chinese

medical knowledge to ask truly interesting questions. Jason is humble

and attentive, and with his book he generated a real gift for the

students who haven't yet experienced the degree of cultural submersion

and dedicated post-grad study that he undertook.

 

The thing about Jason's book that means the most to me goes beyond the

stories and interviews with Dr. Wang alone, it strikes at the very

heart of the potential that our field has if more people deeply pursue

Chinese medicine. Having a book like Jason's is an example for the

current generation of students, many of whom are young, intelligent,

and inspired to dive deeply into the field of Chinese medicine. If

more of our current students take the route that Jason has taken, our

knowledge base would broaden tremendously. Jason's book is a concrete

example of the diversity and depth of thought that one discovers when

studying Chinese medicine in the host culture. It brings the real

deal back home, in English. It is a source of hope. A sign that the

field is maturing and students are truly pursuing the tremendous world

of knowledge that lies just across the Pacific.

 

Thanks Jason, this type of thing means a lot. What it represents goes

much deeper than the story of one great student and one great master.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

Doug

 

The style of writing was certainly inspired by the fact that both of us were

trying to get into the spirit of a conversation as opposed to a 'textbook'.  I

assume that if he had been writing (as opposed to speaking), it would have been

quite different.  Dialogue was the goal. The raw material for the book actually

consists of hundreds of hours of recorded conversations.

 

Thanks again for the interest. It really is humbling.

 

Respectfully,

 

Jason Robertson

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jason,

 

The conversational tone between you and Dr. Wang comes through in the

book. The two of you make a great team.

 

- Bill Schoenbart

 

 

 

, Jason Robertson

<kentuckyginseng wrote:

>

> Doug

>  

> The style of writing was certainly inspired by the fact that both of

us were trying to get into the spirit of a conversation as opposed to

a 'textbook'.  I assume that if he had been writing (as opposed to

speaking), it would have been quite different.  Dialogue was the goal.

The raw material for the book actually consists of hundreds of hours

of recorded conversations.

>  

> Thanks again for the interest. It really is humbling.

>  

> Respectfully,

>  

> Jason Robertson

>

>

>

>

>