Why I like magnesium citrate specifically

July 18, 2008

Jason,

I appreciate your insight. I am always looking for informative tools to

determine cellular levels of minerals, and other nutritional substances with

some level of credibility. I believe that our wise Creator is constantly

speaking to us and it is incumbant upon us to listen. Of course, there are many

different laxatives, each using different mechanism to bring on bowel movements,

whether they be minerals or herbs. Da Huang, for example, works directly on

the large intestine, increasing contraction and peristalsis, It has no effect

on the small intestine, and, therefore, doesn't interfere with nutrient

absorption. It also has a hepatoprotective and nephroprotective effect,

protecting against both liver and kidney damage. Dang Gui, strongly nourishes

the blood and increases circulation by decreasing blood viscosity, thus

treating constipation induced by dryness and stagnation. Magnesium citrate, on

the other hand, is a saline

osmotic,

\

isa

containing about 11% magnesium, which attacts water to the intestines. Though

when used specifically as a laxative, it is recommended to be taken on an empty

stomach to facilitate bowel movements, I, however, always recommend taking

it WITH meals to minimize this effect and maximize absorption.

Let me tell you why I am so keen on supplementing with Mag Cit. Our society

breeds stress, and stress stimulates the sympathetic nervous system (the " fight

or flight " mechanism). When under stresses such as psychological stress or low

blood sugar levels (hypoglycemia) our adrenal glands release the class of

neurotransmitter hormones called catecholamines. The most abundant

catecholamines are epinephrine, noepinephrine, dopamine and tyrosine. These

catecholamines wreak havoc including depleting the body of magnesium. But it

is also interesting to note that one of the classic manifestations of

sympathetic overstimulation is constipation. Like I said, I may be wrong, but

it seems to me that for people under stress (do you know anyone not?), it is

imperative that they receive adequate magnesium (we've spoken before about its

amazing benefits), which so easily is depleted, and maintain

appropriate elimination. To me, that means

formed soft daily bowel movements. And unless it is contraindicated as in with

obstruction, by regulating and determining the right dose to maintain such

elimination, we promote greater wellness and balance in the face of stress.

Respectfully,

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, wrote:

RE: Mg Glycinate vs Citrate

Friday, July 18, 2008, 5:52 PM

Y,

I understand your thinking, although I wonder if one can really correlate

one's level of bowel tolerance to what one needs on a cellular level (i.e.

muscles). Meaning, just because someone has a laxative effect does not mean

that this is all one needs on a cellular level. Some people have very easy

bowel moving tendencies (esp with citrate) yet need a much larger dose to

change there tight muscles etc. Therefore I almost always use glycinate.

Furthermore, I see no reason to provoke someone's bowels. If someone does

have constipation, IME, Citrate usually does nothing to correct the

underlying problem and just acts a laxative. Although I agree this can be

useful in some situations.

Further comments?

-Jason

_____

[] On Behalf Of yehuda frischman

Friday, July 18, 2008 5:19 PM

Mg Glycinate vs Citrate

Mg Glycinate is a really nice form of Magnesium, is inexpensive and is

highly absorbable, thus requiring a much smaller dose. It's also one of the

few forms of Mg. that doesn't have a laxative effect. It's therefore the

perfect alternative for the patient who is tends to have loose bowels or is

mechanically compromised (eg from surgery, obstruction, or immune

dysfunction) . However, What I like about pure Mg Citrate powder for

everyone else, is that its laxative effect I find to be a like a barometer

to determine the dose that fits for each patient. I generally start with

1/3 teaspoon TID, with meals, and go from there. What I am looking for is a

daily bowel movement which is soft and formed, but certainly not mushy.

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, <@chineseme d

<% 40chinesemedicin edoc.com> icinedoc.com> wrote:

<@chineseme d

<% 40chinesemedicin edoc.com> icinedoc.com>

RE: Recommended topicals & ointments

@ <chineseherb academy%40g roups.com>

. com

Friday, July 18, 2008, 5:52 AM

Yehuda,

Why not just use Mg glycinate?

-Jason

_____

[chineseherb academy] On Behalf Of yehuda frischman

Friday, July 18, 2008 1:39 AM

Re: Recommended topicals & ointments

Dear Dave,

Two things:

1. I hate using " one shoe fits all " medicines to treat symptoms, especially

topically, but if you can find it, and the patient is showing signs of cold,

or spleen Qi or Yang vacuity, along with the pain a wonderful topical

medicine is Feng Shi You (BTW, I haven't been able to find it in LA for

about 3 months).

2. That being said, almost without exception, the patients that I have

treated with pain and muscle spasms have been deficient in Magnesium. I use

Now brand Magnesium Citrate in powder form, and prescribe 1/3 teaspoon TID

with meals-to start. If this produces loose bowels or diarrrhea, cut back

to 1/4 teaspoon BID, and keep adjusting until your patient finds the perfect

dose.

Good Luck,

Yehuda

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

--- On Thu, 7/17/08, dmvitello01 <dmvitello (AT) msn (DOT)

<dmvitello% 40msn.com> com> wrote:

dmvitello01 <dmvitello (AT) msn (DOT) <dmvitello% 40msn.com> com>

Recommended topicals & ointments

@ <chineseherb academy%40g roups.com>

. com

Thursday, July 17, 2008, 10:28 AM

CHA Members,

Please recommend any topical products you have found helpful in

treating pain and muscle spasm. Unfortunately I don't have time to

make it myself anymore, so I'm looking for companies products that you

have found useful in the clinic. I believe there was a company

mentioned that specialized in topical applications but I cannot find

the info. I'm hoping to find a herbal massage oil, ointments and

plasters or the like. Thank you for any help you can offer.

Best Wishes,

Dave v

July 18, 2008

Yehuda,

Thing is I've heard rather the opposite re MgCit. It is a weak

chelation compared to MgGly and therefore more susceptible of

cleaving, releasing free Mg, which, being hydrophilic, attracts water

into the L.I. It seems that I have heard that if one were taking

MgGly to optimize absorption, one would take it away from meals to

minimize exposure to the hydrochloric acid which would be more apt to

cleave the chelation. Therefore taking it with food would more likely

RAISE the quantity of free Mg that would wind up in the intestines;

free Mg is less absorbable but does attract water to " irrigate " the

stool. If one already gets 2-3 good and comfortable BMs per day, one

doesn't need the MgCit and, in fact, 'wouldn't be prudent'. But if

you think most of your patients are full of it, then you better stay

with the MgCit.

8-)

ann

On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:39 PM, yehuda frischman wrote:

> Jason,

>

> I appreciate your insight. I am always looking for informative

> tools to determine cellular levels of minerals, and other

> nutritional substances with some level of credibility. I believe

> that our wise Creator is constantly speaking to us and it is

> incumbant upon us to listen. Of course, there are many different

> laxatives, each using different mechanism to bring on bowel

> movements, whether they be minerals or herbs. Da Huang, for

> example, works directly on the large intestine, increasing

> contraction and peristalsis, It has no effect on the small

> intestine, and, therefore, doesn't interfere with nutrient

> absorption. It also has a hepatoprotective and nephroprotective

> effect, protecting against both liver and kidney damage. Dang Gui,

> strongly nourishes the blood and increases circulation by

> decreasing blood viscosity, thus treating constipation induced by

> dryness and stagnation. Magnesium citrate, on the other hand, is a

> saline

> osmotic,

>

isa

> containing about 11% magnesium, which attacts water to the

> intestines. Though when used specifically as a laxative, it is

> recommended to be taken on an empty stomach to facilitate bowel

> movements, I, however, always recommend taking it WITH meals to

> minimize this effect and maximize absorption.

>

> Let me tell you why I am so keen on supplementing with Mag Cit.

> Our society breeds stress, and stress stimulates the sympathetic

> nervous system (the " fight or flight " mechanism). When under

> stresses such as psychological stress or low blood sugar levels

> (hypoglycemia) our adrenal glands release the class of

> neurotransmitter hormones called catecholamines. The most abundant

> catecholamines are epinephrine, noepinephrine, dopamine and

> tyrosine. These catecholamines wreak havoc including depleting

> the body of magnesium. But it is also interesting to note that one

> of the classic manifestations of sympathetic overstimulation is

> constipation. Like I said, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that

> for people under stress (do you know anyone not?), it is imperative

> that they receive adequate magnesium (we've spoken before about its

> amazing benefits), which so easily is depleted, and maintain

> appropriate elimination. To me, that means

> formed soft daily bowel movements. And unless it is

> contraindicated as in with obstruction, by regulating and

> determining the right dose to maintain such elimination, we promote

> greater wellness and balance in the face of stress.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> --- On Fri, 7/18/08,

> wrote:

>

> RE: Mg Glycinate vs Citrate

>

> Friday, July 18, 2008, 5:52 PM

>

> Y,

>

> I understand your thinking, although I wonder if one can really

> correlate

> one's level of bowel tolerance to what one needs on a cellular

> level (i.e.

> muscles). Meaning, just because someone has a laxative effect does

> not mean

> that this is all one needs on a cellular level. Some people have

> very easy

> bowel moving tendencies (esp with citrate) yet need a much larger

> dose to

> change there tight muscles etc. Therefore I almost always use

> glycinate.

> Furthermore, I see no reason to provoke someone's bowels. If

> someone does

> have constipation, IME, Citrate usually does nothing to correct the

> underlying problem and just acts a laxative. Although I agree this

> can be

> useful in some situations.

>

> Further comments?

>

> -Jason

>

> _____

>

> [] On Behalf Of yehuda

> frischman

> Friday, July 18, 2008 5:19 PM

>

> Mg Glycinate vs Citrate

>

> Mg Glycinate is a really nice form of Magnesium, is inexpensive and is

> highly absorbable, thus requiring a much smaller dose. It's also

> one of the

> few forms of Mg. that doesn't have a laxative effect. It's

> therefore the

> perfect alternative for the patient who is tends to have loose

> bowels or is

> mechanically compromised (eg from surgery, obstruction, or immune

> dysfunction) . However, What I like about pure Mg Citrate powder for

> everyone else, is that its laxative effect I find to be a like a

> barometer

> to determine the dose that fits for each patient. I generally start

> with

> 1/3 teaspoon TID, with meals, and go from there. What I am looking

> for is a

> daily bowel movement which is soft and formed, but certainly not

> mushy.

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

> --- On Fri, 7/18/08, <@chineseme d

> <% 40chinesemedicin edoc.com> icinedoc.com> wrote:

>

> <@chineseme d

> <% 40chinesemedicin edoc.com> icinedoc.com>

> RE: Recommended topicals & ointments

> @ <chineseherb academy%40g

> roups.com>

> . com

> Friday, July 18, 2008, 5:52 AM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Why not just use Mg glycinate?

>

> -Jason

>

> _____

>

> [chineseherb academy] On Behalf Of yehuda

> frischman

> Friday, July 18, 2008 1:39 AM

>

> Re: Recommended topicals & ointments

>

> Dear Dave,

>

> Two things:

>

> 1. I hate using " one shoe fits all " medicines to treat symptoms,

> especially

> topically, but if you can find it, and the patient is showing signs

> of cold,

> or spleen Qi or Yang vacuity, along with the pain a wonderful topical

> medicine is Feng Shi You (BTW, I haven't been able to find it in LA

> for

> about 3 months).

>

> 2. That being said, almost without exception, the patients that I have

> treated with pain and muscle spasms have been deficient in

> Magnesium. I use

> Now brand Magnesium Citrate in powder form, and prescribe 1/3

> teaspoon TID

> with meals-to start. If this produces loose bowels or diarrrhea,

> cut back

> to 1/4 teaspoon BID, and keep adjusting until your patient finds

> the perfect

> dose.

>

> Good Luck,

>

> Yehuda

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

> --- On Thu, 7/17/08, dmvitello01 <dmvitello (AT) msn (DOT)

> <dmvitello% 40msn.com> com> wrote:

>

> dmvitello01 <dmvitello (AT) msn (DOT) <dmvitello% 40msn.com> com>

> Recommended topicals & ointments

> @ <chineseherb academy%40g

> roups.com>

> . com

> Thursday, July 17, 2008, 10:28 AM

>

> CHA Members,

>

> Please recommend any topical products you have found helpful in

> treating pain and muscle spasm. Unfortunately I don't have time to

> make it myself anymore, so I'm looking for companies products that you

> have found useful in the clinic. I believe there was a company

> mentioned that specialized in topical applications but I cannot find

> the info. I'm hoping to find a herbal massage oil, ointments and

> plasters or the like. Thank you for any help you can offer.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Dave v

>

July 19, 2008

I use magnesium malate chelate. Some of the magnesium is bound to malic

acid and the rest is chelated to the amino acid glycine (low molecular

weight and is ideal for both chelating and absorbing magnesium). Long term

use is said to assist in the chelation of aluminum.

The with or without food question is a whole other debate. Stomach pH is

higher (LESS acidic) during a healthy meal, not lower as most believe. Food

acts as a buffer to the pH. Eventually the pH does rise after the meal.

Top probiotic researchers (e.g. Dr Nigel Plummer and his wife) advise taking

probiotics with meals for that very reason. The scenario changes with a SAD

(standard American diet) diet of coffee, donuts, cola, etc, where pH is not

buffered due to the highly acidic food intake. Jason B emailed me research

on this about 6 months ago while we were discussing this very issue.

All that notwithstanding, the wisdom I've heard at nutritional seminars is

to administer a single dose of Mg at night on an empty stomach before bed.

I suppose the wisdom is debatable, but that is a common strategy amongst

progressive nutritionists.

Tim Sharpe

On Behalf Of A Brameier

Friday, July 18, 2008 10:09 PM

Re: Why I like magnesium citrate specifically