Huang Qin and Mu Dan Pi counteraction

[Guest guest]

Hi Group,

 

I have been finding myself writing formulas were I wish to use Mu Dan

Pi and Huang Qin together . This seems to be a good pair for cases of

Liver Qi Stangation tranforming into fire and affecting the blood and

the upper Jiao. I noticed that in Bensky's " Materia Medica " second

edition page 76, it says " According to some traditional sources, this

herb (Huang Qin) is said to counteract Mu Dan Pi " .

I would appreciate any input from your experience about this

counteraction or do you know if this counteraction is considered in

Modern China herbal therapy?

 

Thanks,

Guy Sedan

[Guest guest]

Hi Guy,

 

I found in Chen and Chen, for treating Qi level heat with persistant high fever

and irritability, he actually recommends the combination of Huang Qin, Shi Gao,

Zhi Mu, and Mu Dan Pi.  As has been mentioned before, there are so many

different traditions in China, but as long as there are not any reported adverse

side-effects or contraindications, I personally wouldn't think twice about using

them together.

 

All the best,

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Guy Sedan <guysedan wrote:

 

Guy Sedan <guysedan

Huang Qin and Mu Dan Pi counteraction

" cma "

Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 1:10 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Group,

 

I have been finding myself writing formulas were I wish to use Mu Dan

Pi and Huang Qin together . This seems to be a good pair for cases of

Liver Qi Stangation tranforming into fire and affecting the blood and

the upper Jiao. I noticed that in Bensky's " Materia Medica " second

edition page 76, it says " According to some traditional sources, this

herb (Huang Qin) is said to counteract Mu Dan Pi " .

I would appreciate any input from your experience about this

counteraction or do you know if this counteraction is considered in

Modern China herbal therapy?

 

Thanks,

Guy Sedan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

HI Guy,

 

I use these medicinals in combination together all the time for

different dermatological conditions including- atopic eczema,

psoriasis, acne, etc. The results are good. I have been taught this

way and have never encountered a problem.

 

Trevor

, " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

wrote:

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I have been finding myself writing formulas were I wish to use Mu Dan

> Pi and Huang Qin together . This seems to be a good pair for cases of

> Liver Qi Stangation tranforming into fire and affecting the blood and

> the upper Jiao. I noticed that in Bensky's " Materia Medica " second

> edition page 76, it says " According to some traditional sources, this

> herb (Huang Qin) is said to counteract Mu Dan Pi " .

> I would appreciate any input from your experience about this

> counteraction or do you know if this counteraction is considered in

> Modern China herbal therapy?

>

> Thanks,

> Guy Sedan

>

[Guest guest]

I think when they say, according to some traditional sources, the

subtext is that it is in a few (old) books but nobody takes it too

seriously these days.

Doug

 

, " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

wrote:

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I have been finding myself writing formulas were I wish to use Mu Dan

> Pi and Huang Qin together . This seems to be a good pair for cases of

> Liver Qi Stangation tranforming into fire and affecting the blood and

> the upper Jiao. I noticed that in Bensky's " Materia Medica " second

> edition page 76, it says " According to some traditional sources, this

> herb (Huang Qin) is said to counteract Mu Dan Pi " .

> I would appreciate any input from your experience about this

> counteraction or do you know if this counteraction is considered in

> Modern China herbal therapy?

>

> Thanks,

> Guy Sedan

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the replies.

It is clear that the two herbs do appear in modern TCM clinics.

I noticed that in the classic formulas, the two herbs don't appear

together. The only place I found them in Bensky's " Formulas and Strategies "

is in the modern formula " qing re zhi beng tang " , which appears in the

" Taditional Chinese Medical Treatmnet of Women's Disorder's (Zhong Yi fu ke

zhi liao xue), a Chengdu publication in the 1970's

 

..

 

 

 

2008/8/7, :

>

> I think when they say, according to some traditional sources, the

> subtext is that it is in a few (old) books but nobody takes it too

> seriously these days.

> Doug

>

> --- In

<%40>,

> " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I have been finding myself writing formulas were I wish to use Mu Dan

> > Pi and Huang Qin together . This seems to be a good pair for cases of

> > Liver Qi Stangation tranforming into fire and affecting the blood and

> > the upper Jiao. I noticed that in Bensky's " Materia Medica " second

> > edition page 76, it says " According to some traditional sources, this

> > herb (Huang Qin) is said to counteract Mu Dan Pi " .

> > I would appreciate any input from your experience about this

> > counteraction or do you know if this counteraction is considered in

> > Modern China herbal therapy?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Guy Sedan

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Guy, Doug and Trevor,

 

I think it is worth contemplating the ways that mu dan pi and huang

qin mitigate and compound each other's action. It seems to me that it

is the intended use that determines whether counteraction occurs.

 

They both clear heat: mu dan pi at the blood level, and huang qin at

the qi level. They both enter the liver. Huang qin is drying and mu

dan pi is moistening and I think that the domain of counteraction is

in this moist-dry continuum. I do like to combine them on occasion,

though.

 

Warmly,

 

Will

 

 

William R. Morris, PhD ©, DAOM, LAc

http://www.aoma.edu/

http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

http://health.PulseDiagnosis/messages

 

, " "

wrote:

>

> I think when they say, according to some traditional sources, the

> subtext is that it is in a few (old) books but nobody takes it too

> seriously these days.

> Doug

>

> , " Guy Sedan " <guysedan@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I have been finding myself writing formulas were I wish to use Mu Dan

> > Pi and Huang Qin together . This seems to be a good pair for cases of

> > Liver Qi Stangation tranforming into fire and affecting the blood and

> > the upper Jiao. I noticed that in Bensky's " Materia Medica " second

> > edition page 76, it says " According to some traditional sources, this

> > herb (Huang Qin) is said to counteract Mu Dan Pi " .

> > I would appreciate any input from your experience about this

> > counteraction or do you know if this counteraction is considered in

> > Modern China herbal therapy?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Guy Sedan

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Will.

So maybe we can sum up this issue by saying that regarding the

moistening\damp draining effect they counteract each other, but as regard

to clearing heart they don't?

 

Guy

 

 

2008/8/7, Will Morris <wmorris33:

>

> Guy, Doug and Trevor,

>

> I think it is worth contemplating the ways that mu dan pi and huang

> qin mitigate and compound each other's action. It seems to me that it

> is the intended use that determines whether counteraction occurs.

>

> They both clear heat: mu dan pi at the blood level, and huang qin at

> the qi level. They both enter the liver. Huang qin is drying and mu

> dan pi is moistening and I think that the domain of counteraction is

> in this moist-dry continuum. I do like to combine them on occasion,

> though.

>

> Warmly,

>

> Will

>

> William R. Morris, PhD ©, DAOM, LAc

> http://www.aoma.edu/

> http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

> http://health.PulseDiagnosis/messages

>

> -

>

>