e bu shi cao

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to see what others experience is with e bus hi cao. I would

say that I am now 5 for 5 for making people sick with this herb. Of course I

know that is has some toxicity and can irritate the GI, therefore it should

be taken with food. Is there some trick? Do people pair it with something to

make it not irritate the GI? It is so commonly used in China that I wonder

if their GIs are just not as sensitive or I just have some bad luck. Many of

my patients are a bit sensitive, so on some level this doesn't surprise me,

but when last week one of my most burly patients caved to the e bus hi cao,

I have to wonder. what is going on??? [bTW- I have been using only 3g a day]

Any ideas?

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Jason,

 

I have only used this herb in a granular form and have not yet seen

the stomach irritation so commonly associated with it. Perhaps I have

been lucky or perhaps the granule is gentler?? I have had good success

using it though and often include this herb in formulas for allergic

rhinnitis when the nasal symptoms are more pronounced with signs of heat.

 

Trevor

 

, " "

wrote:

>

> I just wanted to see what others experience is with e bus hi cao. I

would

> say that I am now 5 for 5 for making people sick with this herb. Of

course I

> know that is has some toxicity and can irritate the GI, therefore it

should

> be taken with food. Is there some trick? Do people pair it with

something to

> make it not irritate the GI? It is so commonly used in China that I

wonder

> if their GIs are just not as sensitive or I just have some bad luck.

Many of

> my patients are a bit sensitive, so on some level this doesn't

surprise me,

> but when last week one of my most burly patients caved to the e bus

hi cao,

> I have to wonder. what is going on??? [bTW- I have been using only

3g a day]

> Any ideas?

>

>

>

> -Jason

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " "

wrote:

>

> I just wanted to see what others experience is with e bus hi cao. I

would

> say that I am now 5 for 5 for making people sick with this herb. Of

course I

> know that is has some toxicity and can irritate the GI, therefore

it should

> be taken with food. Is there some trick? Do people pair it with

something to

> make it not irritate the GI?

 

Several practitioners use it in the PCOM San Diego clinic. Bob

Damone has told me that in his experience it tends to produce stomach

pain if he uses it in high doses, so he now sticks to 3 gram doses

and always combines it with sheng jiang, which he said seems to

help. Plus, I think many of his clinic patients are dividing each

pack into two days, rather than a pack per day, so the daily dose he

is often using may be closer to only 1.5 g. Under these conditions,

he reports good results.

 

Tan Tan Huang at PCOM also uses it regularly, but in more robust

doses (often 6-10 g). I haven't really tracked any of those patients

but I haven't heard of anyone talking about any undue side effects.

 

For me personally, I only use e bu shi cao for relatively stubborn

cases, typically after I have already tried normal formulas with

ingredients such as bai zhi, cang er zi, xin yi, etc. I tend to

think of it more for real bi yuan (deep source nasal congestion)

cases rather than the average case of allergies or mild congestion.

I am probably a little conservative about it, I pull it out only if I

feel like I need more power and the normal formula without it isn't

already handling the problem well. I also tend to follow Bob's lead

in terms of a low 3 g dose, combined with sheng jiang. So far, I

haven't had any problems with it in patients when used in this way,

and I have taken it a number of times myself without discomfort. I've

never been disappointed with the therapeutic effect when using it,

but of course there are too many other herbs and confounding

variables on any given case to draw any firm conclusions most of the

time.

 

At the pharmacy that I studied in, the boss would always prescribe it

in doses of only 1 qian (3.7g) per day. I've seen hospital doctors

use it as well, in granule form. I seem to remember them using it in

fairly modest doses, but always in a complex compound formula.

 

Since you are using a relatively modest dose that is taken with food,

you've obviously considered a variety of issues, so I can't be of

much help. I do notice that the 7th ed. Zhongyaoxue Chinese textbook

says that it should be used with care in patients with gastritis of

gastric ulcers, and they also mention that its nature is acrid and

harsh, with an upbearing and dispersing, warm freeing action. Tends

to rise to the head and is able to move qi, disperse evil, and open

the orifice (of the nose). It mentions that it is a good medicinal

for wind-cold headache, nasal congestion, and eye screens, and is

a " miraculous " medicine for treating bi yuan (deep source nasal

congestion). Interestingly, they give a 6-9 g dose range.

 

Let us know if you find any tricks that help you employ it more

effectively.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

I have been using in granule form and no problems

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What kind of dosage are you using, Alon?

 

Dosage per 100g? Per day?

 

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

 

> I have been using in granule form and no problems

>

>

>

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks Eric et al, I will try mixing it with sheng jiang.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Eric Brand

Friday, September 05, 2008 10:54 AM

 

Re: e bu shi cao

 

 

 

 

<%40> , " "

wrote:

>

> I just wanted to see what others experience is with e bus hi cao. I

would

> say that I am now 5 for 5 for making people sick with this herb. Of

course I

> know that is has some toxicity and can irritate the GI, therefore

it should

> be taken with food. Is there some trick? Do people pair it with

something to

> make it not irritate the GI?

 

Several practitioners use it in the PCOM San Diego clinic. Bob

Damone has told me that in his experience it tends to produce stomach

pain if he uses it in high doses, so he now sticks to 3 gram doses

and always combines it with sheng jiang, which he said seems to

help. Plus, I think many of his clinic patients are dividing each

pack into two days, rather than a pack per day, so the daily dose he

is often using may be closer to only 1.5 g. Under these conditions,

he reports good results.

 

Tan Tan Huang at PCOM also uses it regularly, but in more robust

doses (often 6-10 g). I haven't really tracked any of those patients

but I haven't heard of anyone talking about any undue side effects.

 

For me personally, I only use e bu shi cao for relatively stubborn

cases, typically after I have already tried normal formulas with

ingredients such as bai zhi, cang er zi, xin yi, etc. I tend to

think of it more for real bi yuan (deep source nasal congestion)

cases rather than the average case of allergies or mild congestion.

I am probably a little conservative about it, I pull it out only if I

feel like I need more power and the normal formula without it isn't

already handling the problem well. I also tend to follow Bob's lead

in terms of a low 3 g dose, combined with sheng jiang. So far, I

haven't had any problems with it in patients when used in this way,

and I have taken it a number of times myself without discomfort. I've

never been disappointed with the therapeutic effect when using it,

but of course there are too many other herbs and confounding

variables on any given case to draw any firm conclusions most of the

time.

 

At the pharmacy that I studied in, the boss would always prescribe it

in doses of only 1 qian (3.7g) per day. I've seen hospital doctors

use it as well, in granule form. I seem to remember them using it in

fairly modest doses, but always in a complex compound formula.

 

Since you are using a relatively modest dose that is taken with food,

you've obviously considered a variety of issues, so I can't be of

much help. I do notice that the 7th ed. Zhongyaoxue Chinese textbook

says that it should be used with care in patients with gastritis of

gastric ulcers, and they also mention that its nature is acrid and

harsh, with an upbearing and dispersing, warm freeing action. Tends

to rise to the head and is able to move qi, disperse evil, and open

the orifice (of the nose). It mentions that it is a good medicinal

for wind-cold headache, nasal congestion, and eye screens, and is

a " miraculous " medicine for treating bi yuan (deep source nasal

congestion). Interestingly, they give a 6-9 g dose range.

 

Let us know if you find any tricks that help you employ it more

effectively.

 

Eric Brand

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

upto 9g per week of granule

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus