Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 The term " unfulfilled desires " has be circling around in the western literature as a cause of disease etc. Does anyone know the Chinese characters this term is linked to? - <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=2600+30th+Street%2C+Suite+20 0 & csz=Boulder%2C+Co & country=us> 2600 30th Street, Suite 200 Boulder, Co 80301 <http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_simple_sig & lang=en> Want a signature like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 情志ä¸é‚ Hope that helps. SUNG, yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Jason- Although I have heard of this being used, I am not sure what the characters are and would love to know the history of its use. Is it possible that people are referring to 嘿嘿 from the Shaoyang chapters of the SHL, which I believe Dan Bensky translated as " downcast " and Craig Mitchell translates as " taciturnity " ? -Steve Stephen Bonzak, L.Ac., Dipl. C.H. http://www.health-traditions.com sbonzak 773-470-6994 On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:53 AM, wrote: > The term " unfulfilled desires " has be circling around in the western > literature as a cause of disease etc. Does anyone know the Chinese > characters this term is linked to? > > - > > > > > <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=2600+30th+Street%2C > +Suite+20 > 0 & csz=Boulder%2C+Co & country=us> 2600 30th Street, Suite 200 > Boulder, Co > 80301 > > > > <http://www.plaxo.com/signature? > src=client_sig_212_1_simple_sig & lang=en> > Want a signature like this? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Although its not exactly what you asked you can look at Sonya Pritzker - The Apologetic Heart - Bei1 Die2 in the JCM - number 76 - October 2004 Doug , " " wrote: > > The term " unfulfilled desires " has be circling around in the western > literature as a cause of disease etc. Does anyone know the Chinese > characters this term is linked to? > > > > - > > > > <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=2600+30th+Street%2C+Suite+20 > 0 & csz=Boulder%2C+Co & country=us> 2600 30th Street, Suite 200 > Boulder, Co > 80301 > > > > > > <http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_simple_sig & lang=en> > Want a signature like this? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I think Wiseman's translation of this term (qing2zhi4 bu4sui4) - 'frustration' - comes closer to the meaning than 'unfulfilled desires.' Herman , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 wrote: > > 情志ä¸é‚ > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 If I'm not mistaken, Bob Flaws is perhaps responsible for promoting the term within the English TCM literature.. See this post: http://health./message/10570 fernando , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 wrote: > > 情志ä¸é‚ > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 ªÅµê (kong1 xu1)¡A ±¡Æ{ (qing2 yu4) these two emotional can be depression and frustration. Christine W Chang, DAOM, LAc., BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee (AAAOM) American Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine 310-951-8698 (cell) " I think, therefore I am. " Sunday, September 14, 2008 6:53:27 AM unfulfilled desires?? The term " unfulfilled desires " has be circling around in the western literature as a cause of disease etc. Does anyone know the Chinese characters this term is linked to? - <http://maps. / py/maps.py? Pyt=Tmap & addr=2600+ 30th+Street% 2C+Suite+ 20 0 & csz=Boulder% 2C+Co & country= us> 2600 30th Street, Suite 200 Boulder, Co 80301 <http://www.plaxo. com/signature? src=client_ sig_212_1_ simple_sig & lang=en> Want a signature like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 You are not mistaken. Bob Flaws has frequently used " unfulfilled desires " in his literature and teaching to point it out as a common cause of liver depression qi stagnation. For example, a patient with chronic illness will of course have a great deal of unfulfilled desires due to the limitations caused by the illness, so they will therefore have liver depression qi stagnation. And being a mature, functional adult means restraining our impulses continually, which causes a routine amount of liver depression qi stagnation on a day-to-day basis. (As with children, livers apparently don't know any better--they just want what they want.) This necessitates routine relaxation exercises or meditative work just to keep the situation from getting out of hand. To stay sane, in other words, as well as to prevent the qi stagnation from accumulating and causing disease. I am not qualified to address the translation issues as such. However, " frustration " seems a suitable replacement term in meaning, except that it does not reflect the cause-effect relationship that " unfulfilled desires " does, and which creates a teaching tool. Joseph Garner --- On Sun, 9/14/08, fbernall <fbernall wrote: fbernall <fbernall Re: unfulfilled desires?? Sunday, September 14, 2008, 1:24 PM If I'm not mistaken, Bob Flaws is perhaps responsible for promoting the term within the English TCM literature.. See this post: http://health. groups.. com chineseherbacade my/message/ 10570 fernando , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 > wrote: > > 情志ä¸é‚ > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Joseph and group, Thanks everyone for the information, it is a very interesting topic. I agree that ‘frustration’ does not reflect the cause-effect relationship that ‘unfulfilled desire’ does. But the real question is what does the term, 情志ä¸é‚, mean in Chinese. Of courseä¸é‚ can literally mean “not fulfilled†but I am unsure that it means this in this situation. It seems like a heavy concept to just throw into a precursor to Liver qi constraint without further explanation (in Chinese that is). For example, It is used casually in Chinese, such as “情志ä¸é‚ (unfulfilled emotion) leads to Liver and Spleen qi bind leading to chaotic menses, use xiao yao sao.†IS this possible we are projecting some more Buddhist or philosophical slant onto a simple Chinese term? Or is this some more deeper rooted term that is just obvious to Chinese speaking people, “don’t want too much.†Unfortunately I can’t seem to find any definition of this term in Chinese. Can others? IS there a native speaker, i.e. Christine, that has any comment on the meaning of this phrase. My Chinese teacher says it does not mean “unfulfilled desire†and it really about emotions that are just not normal or smooth, more along the lines of frustration. A more simple approach does match the way that writers use the term, but maybe there is more to it. Hence, Bob’s idea is intriguing and I would like to hear more what the Chinese believe it means, so that we use it correctly. I think though, that whatever it means, we should be careful to say that it is a common cause of Liver qi stagnation, only because the term is not used very often in Chinese. I think it is easy to project these ideas onto people. For example, I have heard, “everyone has some unfulfilled desire therefore everyone will have some liver qi stagnation.†This IMO is just incorrect. This term is also used in describing pathology of the heart. BTW- many experts say that constraint originally comes from the heart not the Liver. Thanks, -Jason On Behalf Of Joseph Garner Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:49 PM Re: Re: unfulfilled desires?? You are not mistaken. Bob Flaws has frequently used " unfulfilled desires " in his literature and teaching to point it out as a common cause of liver depression qi stagnation. For example, a patient with chronic illness will of course have a great deal of unfulfilled desires due to the limitations caused by the illness, so they will therefore have liver depression qi stagnation. And being a mature, functional adult means restraining our impulses continually, which causes a routine amount of liver depression qi stagnation on a day-to-day basis. (As with children, livers apparently don't know any better--they just want what they want.) This necessitates routine relaxation exercises or meditative work just to keep the situation from getting out of hand. To stay sane, in other words, as well as to prevent the qi stagnation from accumulating and causing disease. I am not qualified to address the translation issues as such. However, " frustration " seems a suitable replacement term in meaning, except that it does not reflect the cause-effect relationship that " unfulfilled desires " does, and which creates a teaching tool. Joseph Garner --- On Sun, 9/14/08, fbernall <fbernall <fbernall%40> > wrote: fbernall <fbernall <fbernall%40> > Re: unfulfilled desires?? <%40> Sunday, September 14, 2008, 1:24 PM If I'm not mistaken, Bob Flaws is perhaps responsible for promoting the term within the English TCM literature.. See this post: http://health. groups.. com chineseherbacade my/message/ 10570 fernando , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 > wrote: > > 情志ä¸é‚ > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 It is an interesting topic and important aspect of how we understand the causes of patterns. A quick view on dictionary.com shows that " unfulfilled desires " might not be a bad interpretation of frustration WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This frustration noun 1. the feeling that accompanies an experience of being thwarted in attaining your goals 2. an act of hindering someone's plans or efforts 3. a feeling of annoyance at being hindered or criticized; " her constant complaints were the main source of his frustration " Stephen Woodley LAc -- www.shanghanlunseminars.com -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 ¾ð»ÖÉÔ¿ë(unfulfilled emotion) We are rarely used this term. ¾ð qing2: emotional, »Ö zhi4: will power, ÉÔ¿ë bu2 sui4: not satisfied it is only happen to the depressed and negative people not everybody. Again, it is not a common term we are using in the daily . Christine W Chang, DAOM, LAc., BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee (AAAOM) American Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine 310-951-8698 (cell) Monday, September 15, 2008 5:53:27 AM RE: Re: unfulfilled desires?? Joseph and group, Thanks everyone for the information, it is a very interesting topic. I agree that ¡Æfrustration¡Ç does not reflect the cause-effect relationship that ¡Æunfulfilled desire¡Ç does. But the real question is what does the term, ¾ð»ÖÉÔ¿ë, mean in Chinese. Of courseÉÔ¿ë can literally mean ¡Ènot fulfilled¡É but I am unsure that it means this in this situation. It seems like a heavy concept to just throw into a precursor to Liver qi constraint without further explanation (in Chinese that is). For example, It is used casually in Chinese, such as ¡È¾ð»ÖÉÔ¿ë (unfulfilled emotion) leads to Liver and Spleen qi bind leading to chaotic menses, use xiao yao sao.¡É IS this possible we are projecting some more Buddhist or philosophical slant onto a simple Chinese term? Or is this some more deeper rooted term that is just obvious to Chinese speaking people, ¡Èdon¡Çt want too much.¡É Unfortunately I can¡Çt seem to find any definition of this term in Chinese. Can others? IS there a native speaker, i.e. Christine, that has any comment on the meaning of this phrase. My Chinese teacher says it does not mean ¡Èunfulfilled desire¡É and it really about emotions that are just not normal or smooth, more along the lines of frustration. A more simple approach does match the way that writers use the term, but maybe there is more to it. Hence, Bob¡Çs idea is intriguing and I would like to hear more what the Chinese believe it means, so that we use it correctly. I think though, that whatever it means, we should be careful to say that it is a common cause of Liver qi stagnation, only because the term is not used very often in Chinese. I think it is easy to project these ideas onto people. For example, I have heard, ¡Èeveryone has some unfulfilled desire therefore everyone will have some liver qi stagnation.¡É This IMO is just incorrect. This term is also used in describing pathology of the heart. BTW- many experts say that constraint originally comes from the heart not the Liver. Thanks, -Jason [@ . com] On Behalf Of Joseph Garner Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:49 PM Re: Re: unfulfilled desires?? You are not mistaken. Bob Flaws has frequently used " unfulfilled desires " in his literature and teaching to point it out as a common cause of liver depression qi stagnation. For example, a patient with chronic illness will of course have a great deal of unfulfilled desires due to the limitations caused by the illness, so they will therefore have liver depression qi stagnation. And being a mature, functional adult means restraining our impulses continually, which causes a routine amount of liver depression qi stagnation on a day-to-day basis. (As with children, livers apparently don't know any better--they just want what they want.) This necessitates routine relaxation exercises or meditative work just to keep the situation from getting out of hand. To stay sane, in other words, as well as to prevent the qi stagnation from accumulating and causing disease. I am not qualified to address the translation issues as such. However, " frustration " seems a suitable replacement term in meaning, except that it does not reflect the cause-effect relationship that " unfulfilled desires " does, and which creates a teaching tool. Joseph Garner --- On Sun, 9/14/08, fbernall <fbernall <fbernall% 40> > wrote: fbernall <fbernall <fbernall% 40> > Re: unfulfilled desires?? <chineseherb academy%40g roups.com> Sunday, September 14, 2008, 1:24 PM If I'm not mistaken, Bob Flaws is perhaps responsible for promoting the term within the English TCM literature.. See this post: http://health. groups.. com chineseherbacade my/message/ 10570 fernando , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 > wrote: > > ¾ð»ÖÉÔ¿ë > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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