Adrenal Exhaustionl - KD or LV

[Guest guest]

Hello Group,

 

I have read various correlations between adrenal fatigue and OM

concepts. Some relate this to KD yang (M. Seems) others to KD yin

vacuity empty fire(various TCM texts) and recently an author (i think

Dr Tan) spoke of the LV.

 

What are you all finding clinically relevant?...all theories a side,

what kinds of treatments have you found beneficial to this type of pt.

 

Thank you for your cents,

David M Vitello

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure what kind of patient you're asking about. Adrenal fatigue? Can

you list some signs and symptoms?

 

Also, looking for one-to-one correspondences between biomedical lab values

and TCM patterns has not really taken off as much as many would like. We can

make certain theoretical statements about yang deficiency *looking like* a

hypothyroid condition or " adrenal fatigue " , but ultimately the only benefit

of that kind of talk is to help non-TCM folks get a sense of what we're

thinking about when describing Kidney yang deficiency for instance. Still,

it is only a linguistic approximation and not a one-to-one correspondence.

 

There are many reasons for fatigue including some excess conditions such as

qi stagnation. So, we still have to come back to TCM diagnostic criteria to

make a TCM diagnosis.

 

-al.

 

On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:12 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote:

 

> Hello Group,

>

> I have read various correlations between adrenal fatigue and OM

> concepts. Some relate this to KD yang (M. Seems) others to KD yin

> vacuity empty fire(various TCM texts) and recently an author (i think

> Dr Tan) spoke of the LV.

>

> What are you all finding clinically relevant?...all theories a side,

> what kinds of treatments have you found beneficial to this type of pt.

>

> Thank you for your cents,

> David M Vitello

>

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

David,

 

 

 

One cannot reduce adrenal fatigue to any one (or two) patterns in Chinese

medicine. Such thinking is an oversimplification and misunderstanding of

adrenal fatigue. For example, within the functional medicine paradigm, there

are many patterns that can lead to adrenal fatigue, i.e. many gut

pathologies. This is evidenced in the wide array of treatments that can

resolve " exhausted adrenals " above and beyond just giving adaptogens etc.

for example, resolving gut dysbiosis or eliminating a latent infection. All

of this can be verified through testing of things like DHEA and cortisol as

well as how the patient feels.

 

 

 

This haphazard western / eastern integration is a major pet peeve of mine.

Since I did not personally hear Seems or Tan, I cannot comment on them

directly, but in general many CM lectures haven't a clue in really

understanding adrenal fatigue. Consequently they present a simplified

understanding (i.e. adrenals are related anatomically to the Kidneys) or

whatever, and in turn try to show some cool hip 'western / eastern

integration,' all leading to a disservice to both medicines.

 

 

 

Just as CM has many layers of complexity, so does these seemingly 'basic'

functional medicine diagnosis, adrenal fatigue. Interestingly though, as one

understands the complexities of both systems on can see an immense amount of

overlap in the how the various pathologies and patterns interrelate. It does

not help that it is one of the most common health food store diagnosis, in

which anyone who is tired can say they have.

 

 

 

Therefore to answer the question, clinically one can find many patterns that

relate to adrenal fatigue. If one chooses to use a functional medicinal

model (hence diagnosis) then one needs to learn how to diagnose within that

system. For example, actually test for adrenal fatigue and verify. If you

haven't really studied this system stick to CM, it will serve you better.

For example, if a patient comes in with the diagnosis of adrenal fatigue,

then forget about it, and get on the pulse (or whatever you do..) J -

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of dmvitello01

Monday, September 22, 2008 5:13 PM

 

Adrenal Exhaustionl - KD or LV

 

 

 

Hello Group,

 

I have read various correlations between adrenal fatigue and OM

concepts. Some relate this to KD yang (M. Seems) others to KD yin

vacuity empty fire(various TCM texts) and recently an author (i think

Dr Tan) spoke of the LV.

 

What are you all finding clinically relevant?...all theories a side,

what kinds of treatments have you found beneficial to this type of pt.

 

Thank you for your cents,

David M Vitello