Guest guest Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Hi, Does anyone know what this herb does? From what I understand it is used for both depression and immunity, but wanted to know what it does energetically because a patient has started to take it. Any ideas? Supposedly it has no side effects. Is this true? Sounds too good to be true, but you never know. Thanks! Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 I've heard it can move the spleen qi,tonify the spleen qi, tonify yin and yang--can it really do it all? It sure would be nice to find qi moving herb that also tonifies the qi and isn't drying. We don't have anything like that. , " heylaurag " <heylaurag wrote: > > Hi, Does anyone know what this herb does? From what I understand it is > used for both depression and immunity, but wanted to know what it does > energetically because a patient has started to take it. Any ideas? > Supposedly it has no side effects. Is this true? Sounds too good to > be true, but you never know. > > Thanks! > > Laura > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 , " heylaurag " <heylaurag wrote: > > I've heard it can move the spleen qi,tonify the spleen qi, tonify yin > and yang--can it really do it all? It sure would be nice to find qi > moving herb that also tonifies the qi and isn't drying. We don't have > anything like that. My question- Hong jing tian exists in both Northeastern China and Tibet. Different species? Different properties? Tibetan is superior? Anybody know? Chinese textbooks say the following: Nature and Flavor: Sweet; cold. CHANNEL ENTRY: Spleen, lung. Actions and Indications Fortifies the spleen and boosts qi: Spleen qi vacuity. Hong jing tian may be used as a single medicinal to treat spleen qi vacuity with signs such as fatigue and lack of strength. It is also said to boost qi to engender blood. In addition, it promotes contraction and can be used to treat abnormal vaginal discharge. For vaginal discharge, combine it with qian shi (Euryales Semen), shan yao (Dioscoreae Rhizoma), and bai zhu (Atractylodis Macrocephalae Rhizoma). Clears the lung and relieves cough: Lung heat cough. For lung heat with cough and expectoration of blood, combine hong jing tian with zhe bei mu (Fritillariae Thunbergii Bulbus), zhi mu (Anemarrhenae Rhizoma), and e jiao (Asini Corii Colla). Some sources also indicate that hong jing tian nourishes lung yin and can be used for yin vacuity patterns as well. For yin vacuity, use it with sha shen (Adenophorae seu Glehniae Radix) and bai he (Lilii Bulbus). Quickens the blood and transforms stasis: Blood stasis from knocks and falls. Hong jing tian is used topically for knocks and falls, and may also be used topically for burns and scalds. Modern Applications: Hong jing tian has also been recently used to treat altitude sickness. Dosage and Method of Use 3–12 g in decoctions. It may also be applied topically, and is frequently made into tablets or gelatin capsules. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Thanks for that information. Anyone know if it also moves the spleen and liver qi? Some sources have said that it does and since it treats depression is makes sense that it would. , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@> > wrote: > > > > I've heard it can move the spleen qi,tonify the spleen qi, tonify yin > > and yang--can it really do it all? It sure would be nice to find qi > > moving herb that also tonifies the qi and isn't drying. We don't have > > anything like that. > > My question- > > Hong jing tian exists in both Northeastern China and Tibet. Different > species? Different properties? Tibetan is superior? Anybody know? > > Chinese textbooks say the following: > Nature and Flavor: Sweet; cold. > CHANNEL ENTRY: Spleen, lung. > > > Actions and Indications > > Fortifies the spleen and boosts qi: Spleen qi vacuity. > Hong jing tian may be used as a single medicinal to treat spleen qi > vacuity with signs such as fatigue and lack of strength. It is also > said to boost qi to engender blood. In addition, it promotes > contraction and can be used to treat abnormal vaginal discharge. For > vaginal discharge, combine it with qian shi (Euryales Semen), shan yao > (Dioscoreae Rhizoma), and bai zhu (Atractylodis Macrocephalae Rhizoma). > Clears the lung and relieves cough: Lung heat cough. > For lung heat with cough and expectoration of blood, combine hong jing > tian with zhe bei mu (Fritillariae Thunbergii Bulbus), zhi mu > (Anemarrhenae Rhizoma), and e jiao (Asini Corii Colla). Some sources > also indicate that hong jing tian nourishes lung yin and can be used > for yin vacuity patterns as well. For yin vacuity, use it with sha > shen (Adenophorae seu Glehniae Radix) and bai he (Lilii Bulbus). > Quickens the blood and transforms stasis: Blood stasis from knocks and > falls. > Hong jing tian is used topically for knocks and falls, and may also be > used topically for burns and scalds. > Modern Applications: Hong jing tian has also been recently used to > treat altitude sickness. > > > Dosage and Method of Use > > 3–12 g in decoctions. It may also be applied topically, and is > frequently made into tablets or gelatin capsules. > > Eric Brand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 , " heylaurag " <heylaurag wrote: > > Thanks for that information. Anyone know if it also moves the spleen > and liver qi? To clarify, the Chinese phrase " moves the spleen " (yun pi) refers to an action that treats spleen encumbered by dampness. This term is commonly found in the context of aromatic medicinals such as sha ren. Is this what you mean? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Hi Eric and Friends - I have been taking Rhodiola on and off for ten years. It is one of my favorite herbs. There is extensive research showing improved blood oxygen uptake. Much of it is from Russia. Rhodeola sacra is the Tibetan form and Rhodeola rosea is the Chinese. Every Tibetan Buddhist formula for pulmonary conditions I have encountered contains Rhodiola sacra. It is also found in the altitude sickness formulas that can be purchased on the street in Tibet. There is a 2002 edition of Herbalgram (Number 56) that has an extensive piece on this amazing plant. Dioscorides discusses thee latter as rodia riza in De Materia Medica. There are more than 50 species of the genus Rhodeola. Cool stuff: Rosea stimulates norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (NE), serotonin (5-HT), and nicotinic cholinergic effects in the CNS. It also enhances blood-brain barrier permeability to precursors of DA and 5-HT. It is a " nootropic, " which is an agent that enhances cognition, protects the brain and has low toxicity. The reticular activating system splits in to the cortex with NE and 5-HT (cognition) and the limbic system with NE, 5-HT, DA, and Ach (emotional cognition). I have classified it as a Shen calming and nourishing agent based upon the mental clarity and calmness that arrives when it is taken. I think the above biological information supports that point of view. It also clearly boosts qi, opens the lungs. This latter application leads me to use it when the lung qi is depleted and the contribution of da qi to the generation of ying, wei, qi and blood is somehow diminished. Warmly, Will , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@> > wrote: > > > > I've heard it can move the spleen qi,tonify the spleen qi, tonify yin > > and yang--can it really do it all? It sure would be nice to find qi > > moving herb that also tonifies the qi and isn't drying. We don't have > > anything like that. > > My question- > > Hong jing tian exists in both Northeastern China and Tibet. Different > species? Different properties? Tibetan is superior? Anybody know? > > Chinese textbooks say the following: > Nature and Flavor: Sweet; cold. > CHANNEL ENTRY: Spleen, lung. > > > Actions and Indications > > Fortifies the spleen and boosts qi: Spleen qi vacuity. > Hong jing tian may be used as a single medicinal to treat spleen qi > vacuity with signs such as fatigue and lack of strength. It is also > said to boost qi to engender blood. In addition, it promotes > contraction and can be used to treat abnormal vaginal discharge. For > vaginal discharge, combine it with qian shi (Euryales Semen), shan yao > (Dioscoreae Rhizoma), and bai zhu (Atractylodis Macrocephalae Rhizoma). > Clears the lung and relieves cough: Lung heat cough. > For lung heat with cough and expectoration of blood, combine hong jing > tian with zhe bei mu (Fritillariae Thunbergii Bulbus), zhi mu > (Anemarrhenae Rhizoma), and e jiao (Asini Corii Colla). Some sources > also indicate that hong jing tian nourishes lung yin and can be used > for yin vacuity patterns as well. For yin vacuity, use it with sha > shen (Adenophorae seu Glehniae Radix) and bai he (Lilii Bulbus). > Quickens the blood and transforms stasis: Blood stasis from knocks and > falls. > Hong jing tian is used topically for knocks and falls, and may also be > used topically for burns and scalds. > Modern Applications: Hong jing tian has also been recently used to > treat altitude sickness. > > > Dosage and Method of Use > > 3�12 g in decoctions. It may also be applied topically, and is > frequently made into tablets or gelatin capsules. > > Eric Brand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have also taken the herb myself and it really is a great tonic. Eric, KPC has the Tibetan version made in capsules. They have been trying to introduce it in the European market but haven't really succeeded yet. I got some boxes for free and really loved them, as did my wife. Pretty expensive though, I believe it was about 1400NTD for one small box. Tom. , " Will Morris " <wmorris33 wrote: > > Hi Eric and Friends - > > I have been taking Rhodiola on and off for ten years. It is one of my > favorite herbs. There is extensive research showing improved blood > oxygen uptake. Much of it is from Russia. > > Rhodeola sacra is the Tibetan form and Rhodeola rosea is the Chinese. > Every Tibetan Buddhist formula for pulmonary conditions I have > encountered contains Rhodiola sacra. It is also found in the altitude > sickness formulas that can be purchased on the street in Tibet. > > There is a 2002 edition of Herbalgram (Number 56) that has an > extensive piece on this amazing plant. Dioscorides discusses thee > latter as rodia riza in De Materia Medica. There are more than 50 > species of the genus Rhodeola. > > Cool stuff: Rosea stimulates norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (NE), > serotonin (5-HT), and nicotinic cholinergic effects in the CNS. It > also enhances blood-brain barrier permeability to precursors of DA and > 5-HT. > > It is a " nootropic, " which is an agent that enhances cognition, > protects the brain and has low toxicity. The reticular activating > system splits in to the cortex with NE and 5-HT (cognition) and the > limbic system with NE, 5-HT, DA, and Ach (emotional cognition). > > I have classified it as a Shen calming and nourishing agent based upon > the mental clarity and calmness that arrives when it is taken. I think > the above biological information supports that point of view. It also > clearly boosts qi, opens the lungs. This latter application leads me > to use it when the lung qi is depleted and the contribution of da qi > to the generation of ying, wei, qi and blood is somehow diminished. > > Warmly, > > Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 Hello Group, Since I often travel to areas in northwestern China where Hongjintian grows, I have seen it a lot. About its uses I know that it has been used in local traditions of some tibetan areas as well as some siberian areas as well as probably other areas where it grows. In the sichuan-tibetan areas it is used for gynecological problems like infections and to prevent altitude sickness (I use it a lot for this when I am there). It is also quite a strong qi booster. There are a lot of different species being sold, even in the areas I know, many different species grow there, some considered better than others, identification research about which is the best is still going on. I dont know anything about the species in northeastern China. At the moment it is quite popular in western China, so there is a rush on it and natural habitats are being plundered. Hopefully some people will succeed in growing it (which is not the case so far) before it is extinct. (if you want to see it alive, look on www.tcmherbs.org after the 20 of october I will have some new pictures of it there) Nina Zhao-Seiler Praxis für Traditionelle Chinesische Medizin Wilfriedstrasse 8 CH-8032 Zürich Tel: +41 44 251 1331 Fax: +41 43 243 6990 ninaseiler www.tcmherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 Will & group, FYI- The makers of yincare now have a new altitude sickness formulation, which I am pretty sure has Rhodiola (sacra?) in it (I do not have one in front of me, so this is just from memory). Nonetheless, it seems worth trying. -Jason On Behalf Of Will Morris Rhodeola sacra is the Tibetan form and Rhodeola rosea is the Chinese. Every Tibetan Buddhist formula for pulmonary conditions I have encountered contains Rhodiola sacra. It is also found in the altitude sickness formulas that can be purchased on the street in Tibet. __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 , " Will Morris " <wmorris33 wrote: > > Hi Eric and Friends - > It is a " nootropic, " which is an agent that enhances cognition, > protects the brain and has low toxicity. The reticular activating > system splits in to the cortex with NE and 5-HT (cognition) and the > limbic system with NE, 5-HT, DA, and Ach (emotional cognition). Cool! Thanks for all the info! I think ginseng will always remain the #1 TCM " nootropic " though. Interestingly, it is the only herb that I know of that Chinese books ascribe an " yi zhi " (boosting the mind/ " sharpening the wits " ) property to. Certainly the cognitive effects are tangible with good ginseng, it definitely makes you smarter and generally better in a subtle yet beautiful way. I'll have to try some rhodiola out for myself, you've heightened my interest. It is interesting to note that most Western smart products are stimulating, while most Chinese " brain tonic " formulas are spirit-quieting. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 I've been using the Herb Pharm extract on and off for a few years, I also really like this herb. . On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Tom Verhaeghe wrote: > I have also taken the herb myself and it really is a great tonic. > > Eric, KPC has the Tibetan version made in capsules. They have been > trying to introduce it in the European market but haven't really > succeeded yet. I got some boxes for free and really loved them, as did > my wife. Pretty expensive though, I believe it was about 1400NTD for > one small box. > > Tom. > > , " Will Morris " > <wmorris33 wrote: > > > > Hi Eric and Friends - > > > > I have been taking Rhodiola on and off for ten years. It is one of > my > > favorite herbs. There is extensive research showing improved blood > > oxygen uptake. Much of it is from Russia. > > > > Rhodeola sacra is the Tibetan form and Rhodeola rosea is the > Chinese. > > Every Tibetan Buddhist formula for pulmonary conditions I have > > encountered contains Rhodiola sacra. It is also found in the > altitude > > sickness formulas that can be purchased on the street in Tibet. > > > > There is a 2002 edition of Herbalgram (Number 56) that has an > > extensive piece on this amazing plant. Dioscorides discusses thee > > latter as rodia riza in De Materia Medica. There are more than 50 > > species of the genus Rhodeola. > > > > Cool stuff: Rosea stimulates norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (NE), > > serotonin (5-HT), and nicotinic cholinergic effects in the CNS. It > > also enhances blood-brain barrier permeability to precursors of DA > and > > 5-HT. > > > > It is a " nootropic, " which is an agent that enhances cognition, > > protects the brain and has low toxicity. The reticular activating > > system splits in to the cortex with NE and 5-HT (cognition) and the > > limbic system with NE, 5-HT, DA, and Ach (emotional cognition). > > > > I have classified it as a Shen calming and nourishing agent based > upon > > the mental clarity and calmness that arrives when it is taken. I > think > > the above biological information supports that point of view. It > also > > clearly boosts qi, opens the lungs. This latter application leads me > > to use it when the lung qi is depleted and the contribution of da qi > > to the generation of ying, wei, qi and blood is somehow diminished. > > > > > Warmly, > > > > Will > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 It is recognized in western herb circles as an adaptogen and the Russian grown is considered the best by many. > > My question- > > Hong jing tian exists in both Northeastern China and Tibet. Different > species? Different properties? Tibetan is superior? Anybody know? > > Chinese textbooks say the following: > Nature and Flavor: Sweet; cold. > CHANNEL ENTRY: Spleen, lung. > > > Actions and Indications > > Fortifies the spleen and boosts qi: Spleen qi vacuity. > Hong jing tian may be used as a single medicinal to treat spleen qi > vacuity with signs such as fatigue and lack of strength. It is also > said to boost qi to engender blood. In addition, it promotes > contraction and can be used to treat abnormal vaginal discharge. For > vaginal discharge, combine it with qian shi (Euryales Semen), shan yao > (Dioscoreae Rhizoma), and bai zhu (Atractylodis Macrocephalae Rhizoma). > Clears the lung and relieves cough: Lung heat cough. > For lung heat with cough and expectoration of blood, combine hong jing > tian with zhe bei mu (Fritillariae Thunbergii Bulbus), zhi mu > (Anemarrhenae Rhizoma), and e jiao (Asini Corii Colla). Some sources > also indicate that hong jing tian nourishes lung yin and can be used > for yin vacuity patterns as well. For yin vacuity, use it with sha > shen (Adenophorae seu Glehniae Radix) and bai he (Lilii Bulbus). > Quickens the blood and transforms stasis: Blood stasis from knocks and > falls. > Hong jing tian is used topically for knocks and falls, and may also be > used topically for burns and scalds. > Modern Applications: Hong jing tian has also been recently used to > treat altitude sickness. > > > Dosage and Method of Use > > 3–12 g in decoctions. It may also be applied topically, and is > frequently made into tablets or gelatin capsules. > > Eric Brand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 To add a little. This " yun pi " is not just for dampness but also often used for Spleen yang deficiency with cold or cold that is blocking the Spleen (or center, as in " yun zhong " ). Hence one may use a " warm and move the Spleen and Kidney method " for a cold pain deficiency pattern. Using medicinals such as, fu zi, gan jiang, bai zhu, and gan cao. Also it is used when there any type of Spleen blockage that influences the Liver's normal movement. -Jason On Behalf Of Eric Brand Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:24 PM Re: Rhodiola Rosea/Hong Jing Tian <%40> , " heylaurag " <heylaurag wrote: > > Thanks for that information. Anyone know if it also moves the spleen > and liver qi? To clarify, the Chinese phrase " moves the spleen " (yun pi) refers to an action that treats spleen encumbered by dampness. This term is commonly found in the context of aromatic medicinals such as sha ren. Is this what you mean? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 Hi Will, thanks for your thoughts. Have you ever seen someone not do well on it? Are there situations where it should not be used, eg: with yin deficient heat, etc? , " Will Morris " <wmorris33 wrote: > > Hi Eric and Friends - > > I have been taking Rhodiola on and off for ten years. It is one of my > favorite herbs. There is extensive research showing improved blood > oxygen uptake. Much of it is from Russia. > > Rhodeola sacra is the Tibetan form and Rhodeola rosea is the Chinese. > Every Tibetan Buddhist formula for pulmonary conditions I have > encountered contains Rhodiola sacra. It is also found in the altitude > sickness formulas that can be purchased on the street in Tibet. > > There is a 2002 edition of Herbalgram (Number 56) that has an > extensive piece on this amazing plant. Dioscorides discusses thee > latter as rodia riza in De Materia Medica. There are more than 50 > species of the genus Rhodeola. > > Cool stuff: Rosea stimulates norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (NE), > serotonin (5-HT), and nicotinic cholinergic effects in the CNS. It > also enhances blood-brain barrier permeability to precursors of DA and > 5-HT. > > It is a " nootropic, " which is an agent that enhances cognition, > protects the brain and has low toxicity. The reticular activating > system splits in to the cortex with NE and 5-HT (cognition) and the > limbic system with NE, 5-HT, DA, and Ach (emotional cognition). > > I have classified it as a Shen calming and nourishing agent based upon > the mental clarity and calmness that arrives when it is taken. I think > the above biological information supports that point of view. It also > clearly boosts qi, opens the lungs. This latter application leads me > to use it when the lung qi is depleted and the contribution of da qi > to the generation of ying, wei, qi and blood is somehow diminished. > > Warmly, > > Will > > > > > , " Eric Brand " > <smilinglotus@> wrote: > > > > , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I've heard it can move the spleen qi,tonify the spleen qi, tonify yin > > > and yang--can it really do it all? It sure would be nice to find qi > > > moving herb that also tonifies the qi and isn't drying. We don't > have > > > anything like that. > > > > My question- > > > > Hong jing tian exists in both Northeastern China and Tibet. Different > > species? Different properties? Tibetan is superior? Anybody know? > > > > Chinese textbooks say the following: > > Nature and Flavor: Sweet; cold. > > CHANNEL ENTRY: Spleen, lung. > > > > > > Actions and Indications > > > > Fortifies the spleen and boosts qi: Spleen qi vacuity. > > Hong jing tian may be used as a single medicinal to treat spleen qi > > vacuity with signs such as fatigue and lack of strength. It is also > > said to boost qi to engender blood. In addition, it promotes > > contraction and can be used to treat abnormal vaginal discharge. For > > vaginal discharge, combine it with qian shi (Euryales Semen), shan yao > > (Dioscoreae Rhizoma), and bai zhu (Atractylodis Macrocephalae Rhizoma). > > Clears the lung and relieves cough: Lung heat cough. > > For lung heat with cough and expectoration of blood, combine hong jing > > tian with zhe bei mu (Fritillariae Thunbergii Bulbus), zhi mu > > (Anemarrhenae Rhizoma), and e jiao (Asini Corii Colla). Some sources > > also indicate that hong jing tian nourishes lung yin and can be used > > for yin vacuity patterns as well. For yin vacuity, use it with sha > > shen (Adenophorae seu Glehniae Radix) and bai he (Lilii Bulbus). > > Quickens the blood and transforms stasis: Blood stasis from knocks and > > falls. > > Hong jing tian is used topically for knocks and falls, and may also be > > used topically for burns and scalds. > > Modern Applications: Hong jing tian has also been recently used to > > treat altitude sickness. > > > > > > Dosage and Method of Use > > > > 3�12 g in decoctions. It may also be applied topically, and is > > frequently made into tablets or gelatin capsules. > > > > Eric Brand > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 Eric, I agree - ginseng, really really good ginseng enhances meditation better than any other agent. This includes wu wei zi and ling zhi. Please let e know if in your travels, you find specifics regarding the five shen: hun, po, zhi, yi and shen. Warmly, Will , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > , " Will Morris " > <wmorris33@> wrote: > > > > Hi Eric and Friends - > > It is a " nootropic, " which is an agent that enhances cognition, > > protects the brain and has low toxicity. The reticular activating > > system splits in to the cortex with NE and 5-HT (cognition) and the > > limbic system with NE, 5-HT, DA, and Ach (emotional cognition). > > Cool! Thanks for all the info! > > I think ginseng will always remain the #1 TCM " nootropic " though. > Interestingly, it is the only herb that I know of that Chinese books > ascribe an " yi zhi " (boosting the mind/ " sharpening the wits " ) property > to. Certainly the cognitive effects are tangible with good ginseng, > it definitely makes you smarter and generally better in a subtle yet > beautiful way. > > I'll have to try some rhodiola out for myself, you've heightened my > interest. > > It is interesting to note that most Western smart products are > stimulating, while most Chinese " brain tonic " formulas are > spirit-quieting. > > Eric > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 , " Will Morris " <wmorris33 wrote: > > Eric, I agree - ginseng, really really good ginseng enhances > meditation better than any other agent. This includes wu wei zi and > ling zhi. Please let e know if in your travels, you find specifics > regarding the five shen: hun, po, zhi, yi and shen. I just recently left the Chang Bai Shan mountain area in Northeastern China, where I got to eat fresh wu wei zi berries off the vine and raw mountain ginseng roots. The land where that stuff originates is truly sacred- one of the most beautiful and undisturbed places of natural beauty that I've ever seen in China. The sense of clean air and peace up there is amazing, and I feel like I can really see why good ginseng and wu wei zi are as special as they are- it's like meditation just to be there. However, I've since spent the last week immersed in endless Chinese meetings on Chinese medical politics, education, and herbal development, so the meditative vibe of Chang Bai Shan feels a thousand miles away at the moment. Can you clarify what you mean by specifics on the five shen? I believe that the Shen Nong Ben Cao Jing states that ginseng settles the hun and po (ding hun po) and quiets the essence-spirit. Essence-spirit, or jing-shen, is itself a common definition of shen- generally the first definition of shen in any Chinese medical dictionary defines shen as jing-shen. The compound phrase generally refers to the sense of life, of animation, basically a compound uniting the material foundation (jing/essence) and shen (spirit). Jing-shen is a common everyday word in Chinese that indicates general vitality, the degree to which a person feels alive and spirited. It is interesting to note that jing and shen are almost inseparable, representing the combined material and non-material force that animates us. Interestingly, one of the ancient names of ginseng is shen cao, spirit herb. The Shen Nong Ben Cao also is the first text to state that ginseng boosts the zhi, but this " zhi " is a different " zhi " than the zhi character associated with the kidney. The character zhi that represents that which is stored by the kidney, is a combination of the meanings of will, mind, and memory. The " zhi " character that ginseng is said to boost is a different word that shares the same pinyin spelling; it is more closely related to mental faculties and intelligence. This " intelligence-boosting " function of ginseng is one of the few phrases that has remained unchanged in the stated actions of ginseng from the earliest text (shennong bencao) to the most modern materia medicas (7th ed. PRC curriculum). Good stuff, ginseng. If anyone has never really tried good ginseng, I'd strongly encourage it. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Thank you Eric for sharing the experiences in Chang-Bai-Shan. Makes me want to visit it someday. Also noted, in Shen-Nong-Ben-Cao, Ginseng is sweet and a little bit cold. But the modern produced Korean Ginseng is generally considered as warm. So when using Ginseng in the formula, Dang-Shen or American Ginseng would be more appropriate. If you have to use Ginseng in your formula, Ji-Lin Shen (Ji-Lin is the province where the Chang-Bai-Shan is) or wild Ginseng is the way to go. When I read the word " Jing-shen " (essence-spirit) in Chinese, I won't relate it to Ginseng, most Chinese won't. Ginseng is called " Ren-shen " in Chinese, the characters are different, too. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: > --- In <%40>, > " Will Morris " > <wmorris33 wrote: > > > > Eric, I agree - ginseng, really really good ginseng enhances > > meditation better than any other agent. This includes wu wei zi and > > ling zhi. Please let e know if in your travels, you find specifics > > regarding the five shen: hun, po, zhi, yi and shen. > > I just recently left the Chang Bai Shan mountain area in Northeastern > China, where I got to eat fresh wu wei zi berries off the vine and raw > mountain ginseng roots. The land where that stuff originates is truly > sacred- one of the most beautiful and undisturbed places of natural > beauty that I've ever seen in China. The sense of clean air and peace > up there is amazing, and I feel like I can really see why good ginseng > and wu wei zi are as special as they are- it's like meditation just to > be there. > > However, I've since spent the last week immersed in endless Chinese > meetings on Chinese medical politics, education, and herbal > development, so the meditative vibe of Chang Bai Shan feels a thousand > miles away at the moment. Can you clarify what you mean by specifics > on the five shen? > > I believe that the Shen Nong Ben Cao Jing states that ginseng settles > the hun and po (ding hun po) and quiets the essence-spirit. > Essence-spirit, or jing-shen, is itself a common definition of shen- > generally the first definition of shen in any Chinese medical > dictionary defines shen as jing-shen. The compound phrase generally > refers to the sense of life, of animation, basically a compound > uniting the material foundation (jing/essence) and shen (spirit). > Jing-shen is a common everyday word in Chinese that indicates general > vitality, the degree to which a person feels alive and spirited. It > is interesting to note that jing and shen are almost inseparable, > representing the combined material and non-material force that > animates us. > > Interestingly, one of the ancient names of ginseng is shen cao, spirit > herb. > > The Shen Nong Ben Cao also is the first text to state that ginseng > boosts the zhi, but this " zhi " is a different " zhi " than the zhi > character associated with the kidney. The character zhi that > represents that which is stored by the kidney, is a combination of the > meanings of will, mind, and memory. The " zhi " character that ginseng > is said to boost is a different word that shares the same pinyin > spelling; it is more closely related to mental faculties and > intelligence. This " intelligence-boosting " function of ginseng is one > of the few phrases that has remained unchanged in the stated actions > of ginseng from the earliest text (shennong bencao) to the most modern > materia medicas (7th ed. PRC curriculum). > > Good stuff, ginseng. If anyone has never really tried good ginseng, > I'd strongly encourage it. > > Eric Brand > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 , " Gerry Kuo " <gerrrykuo wrote: > Also noted, in Shen-Nong-Ben-Cao, Ginseng is sweet and a little bit cold. Yes, true. Modern books list ginseng as slightly warm (white being neutral to slightly warm, red being warm). > But the modern produced Korean Ginseng is generally considered as warm. Definitely, but part of this has to do with pao zhi. Hong shen (red ginseng) is a relatively new product in the long time frame of Chinese medicine, it is produced by steam-processing the fresh ginseng. It makes it warmer. Most high-end Korean ginseng is processed into the red form, and some Korean techniques include soaking with fu zi, making Korean ginseng significantly warmer. That said, white Korean ginseng is still quite moderate in temperature, not significantly different than Chinese white ginseng except that it is generally of superior quality. Interestingly, a significant amount of " Korean " ginseng is actually Jilin Changbai mountain ginseng that is smuggled across and processed in Korea, only a portion of the product sold in the Korean ginseng market is actually grown in Korea (and much more ginseng in the Hong Kong markets and elsewhere that is sold as Korean is actually Chinese). Korean ginseng is much more expensive because it is strictly regulated, Korean law requires fields to lay fallow for four years in between crops so that the soil's nutrients can be replenished, and the overall output of Korean ginseng is limited, making the price much higher. But authentic Korean ginseng is typically high quality. > So when using Ginseng in the formula, Dang-Shen or American Ginseng would > be more appropriate. Depends on the constitution of the patient, of course. Vacuity cold cases thrive with red ginseng, patients that tend to form heat are better off with white ginseng. If you have to use Ginseng in your formula, Ji-Lin Shen > (Ji-Lin > is the province where the Chang-Bai-Shan is) or wild Ginseng is the way to > go. Jilin province produces over 80% of the Chinese domestic crop, and varies in quality. Jilin and Heilongjiang tend to produce ginseng of equal caliber, though with many many grades ranging from poor to excellent. Liaoning tends to produce ginseng that is not quite as good as that of Jilin and Heilongjiang, though again quality can vary dramatically. These three provinces are the only production regions for ren shen in China, though Chinese-grown xi yang shen is produced in a slightly wider area (best quality Chinese xi yang shen comes from Shandong, actually). The best Chinese ginseng is transplanted mountain roots (yi shan shen), which are forest grown roots typically raised in the area of Chang Bai Shan. > When I read the word " Jing-shen " (essence-spirit) in Chinese, I won't relate > it to > Ginseng, most Chinese won't. No, of course not. Jing-shen is a general word in the Chinese language. It has no real relationship to ginseng, other than the quote in the Shennong Bencao Jing that says that ginseng " an jing-shen " (calms the essence-spirit). In normal TCM texts, this is expressed as " an shen " , quiets the spirit. I merely mentioned it because Will asked something about the hun, po, shen, etc, and the only mention I know of the hun and po as regards ginseng comes from the Shennong Bencao Jing. As we know from our herbs 101 class, ginseng is still regarded today as an herb that supplements the heart and quiets the spirit. Ginseng is called " Ren-shen " in Chinese, the > characters are different, too. Yes, of course. The shen in the word ren shen is a totally different word than the shen that we translate as " spirit " in Chinese medicine. The " shen " in ren shen is the same shen as in dang shen, sha shen, xuan shen, etc. Sorry if my post wasn't clear. I definitely wasn't confusing these concepts or Chinese characters. Eric Brand > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: > > > --- In <%40>, > > " Will Morris " > > <wmorris33@> wrote: > > > > > > Eric, I agree - ginseng, really really good ginseng enhances > > > meditation better than any other agent. This includes wu wei zi and > > > ling zhi. Please let e know if in your travels, you find specifics > > > regarding the five shen: hun, po, zhi, yi and shen. > > > > I just recently left the Chang Bai Shan mountain area in Northeastern > > China, where I got to eat fresh wu wei zi berries off the vine and raw > > mountain ginseng roots. The land where that stuff originates is truly > > sacred- one of the most beautiful and undisturbed places of natural > > beauty that I've ever seen in China. The sense of clean air and peace > > up there is amazing, and I feel like I can really see why good ginseng > > and wu wei zi are as special as they are- it's like meditation just to > > be there. > > > > However, I've since spent the last week immersed in endless Chinese > > meetings on Chinese medical politics, education, and herbal > > development, so the meditative vibe of Chang Bai Shan feels a thousand > > miles away at the moment. Can you clarify what you mean by specifics > > on the five shen? > > > > I believe that the Shen Nong Ben Cao Jing states that ginseng settles > > the hun and po (ding hun po) and quiets the essence-spirit. > > Essence-spirit, or jing-shen, is itself a common definition of shen- > > generally the first definition of shen in any Chinese medical > > dictionary defines shen as jing-shen. The compound phrase generally > > refers to the sense of life, of animation, basically a compound > > uniting the material foundation (jing/essence) and shen (spirit). > > Jing-shen is a common everyday word in Chinese that indicates general > > vitality, the degree to which a person feels alive and spirited. It > > is interesting to note that jing and shen are almost inseparable, > > representing the combined material and non-material force that > > animates us. > > > > Interestingly, one of the ancient names of ginseng is shen cao, spirit > > herb. > > > > The Shen Nong Ben Cao also is the first text to state that ginseng > > boosts the zhi, but this " zhi " is a different " zhi " than the zhi > > character associated with the kidney. The character zhi that > > represents that which is stored by the kidney, is a combination of the > > meanings of will, mind, and memory. The " zhi " character that ginseng > > is said to boost is a different word that shares the same pinyin > > spelling; it is more closely related to mental faculties and > > intelligence. This " intelligence-boosting " function of ginseng is one > > of the few phrases that has remained unchanged in the stated actions > > of ginseng from the earliest text (shennong bencao) to the most modern > > materia medicas (7th ed. PRC curriculum). > > > > Good stuff, ginseng. If anyone has never really tried good ginseng, > > I'd strongly encourage it. > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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