Ginseng Products

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

 

I'm looking for a quality ginseng to try for a couple of months.

 

I've never tried the " really good " stuff and thinks its about.

 

Any recommendations?

 

Anyone ever tried Gintec from Germany?

 

Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

David Vitello

[Guest guest]

, " dmvitello01 "

<dmvitello wrote:

>

> Hello All,

>

> I'm looking for a quality ginseng to try for a couple of months.

>

> I've never tried the " really good " stuff and thinks its about.

>

> Any recommendations?

>

> Anyone ever tried Gintec from Germany?

 

Never having heard of Gintec from Germany, I googled them. Wow! Talk

about buyer beware! For the price of a few 30 grams packs of their

extract, you could get a kilogram of authentic mountain ginseng.

Plus, their website has some truly basic errors that make their

ginseng " expertise " seem truly dubious at best. For example, some

quotes from their website:

 

" White ginseng mostly comes from 3-4-year-old plants and is mainly

grown in lowland areas. Following harvesting it is mostly peeled and

dried in the sun....Red ginseng takes at least 6 years to ripen and is

cultivated in the preferred upland growing areas. "

 

No, no, no.... The age doesn't matter as to red or white, red ginseng

is often 4 yrs old as well, same as white. Premium ginseng does tend

to become processed into red ginseng, but the white/red differences

depend on pao zhi, not the age of the root, certainly not the

" lowland/upland " nonsense claim, and most white ginseng is NOT peeled.

It is true that a lot of the premium 6 yr roots are processed into

red ginseng rather than white, but their fundamental logic and facts

are all skewed here (they are selling red ginseng, not surprisingly).

 

" Following harvesting the valuable red ginseng is preserved naturally

in a time-consuming process whereby it is dampened with water and then

dried. "

 

No, no, no..... Red ginseng is processed by steaming. The steaming

changes the sugars in the root, causing a change in the color.

Sun-drying produces white ginseng, steam-processing produces red

ginseng. Depending on the pao zhi method, soaking with adjuvant

medicinals may also occur during the processing of red ginseng

(particularly common in Korea).

 

The website reads like they've never been to Ginseng 101 class, yet

they seem quite keen to sell 30g of ginseng extract for 80 euros...

goodness....

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

, " dmvitello01 "

<dmvitello wrote:

>

> Hello All,

>

> I'm looking for a quality ginseng to try for a couple of months.

>

> I've never tried the " really good " stuff and thinks its about.

>

> Any recommendations?

 

Here is some more trustworthy ginseng info for you:

 

By Eric Brand

 

CULTIVATED VS WILD

 

The vast majority of ginseng is cultivated. Wild roots and half-wild

roots ( " mountain roots " ) exist on the market, but they are rarely used

clinically because of their expense is generally prohibitive. Most

wild or half-wild roots are not put in prescriptions, but are rather

framed for display or given as gifts. Eventually they are often

sliced and eaten straight or may be soaked in alcohol and consumed

over a prolonged period of time. By contrast, cultivated ginseng is

typically consumed in normal Chinese herbal decoctions, medicinal

soups, or simply on its own by cooking it in a double-boiler; it may

also be taken directly as a powder or the whole roots can be soaked in

alcohol.

 

Two ginseng processing techniques are predominant in the market and

clinic, giving the choice of a red or white form. Simple sun-drying

produces white ginseng, while a steaming process before drying

produces red ginseng. It is common for Chinese medical clinics to

dispense white ginseng unless red is explicitly specified; white

ginseng is comparatively mild, less warm in nature, and is better for

boosting fluids, while red ginseng is warmer and stronger in terms of

supplementing qi. Red ginseng tends to be slightly more expensive but

both forms have high and low quality products represented on the

market. Much of the top quality cultivated ginseng is processed into

the red form; very high-quality cultivated white ginseng also exists

but it is less commonly seen. However, wild or half-wild roots are

only used in the white form.

 

Cultivated ginseng is easily distinguished from wild or half-wild

ginseng, but wild and half-wild forms are hard to tell apart. Truly

wild ginseng arises on its own, most notably in the famous region of

Chang Bai Shan, along the Chinese and North Korean border, as well as

in several other prominent mountain areas in Northeastern China and

Korea. The search for wild ginseng is shrouded in legends and tales

of deep-woods monks with adept skills at spotting ancient roots. Wild

roots can be very old and they are extremely valuable, but they are

incredibly rare in the modern era. In fact, people often say that

true wild ginseng is virtually non-existent now.

 

The only difference between ginseng grown from seed undisturbed in the

wild (one of the main " half-wild " forms) and true wild ginseng is that

the seeds of the former were scattered by humans, whereas the seeds of

the latter arise through the vectors of nature, such as birds and

other animals. Truly wild roots potentially achieve greater age and

inspire legends, but at a minimum of several hundred dollars per

roots, few can afford to use them, and the diminishing wild population

cannot sustain its unbridled global popularity.

 

Half-wild ginseng comes in two main types: transplanted roots and

roots grown from seed. Transplanted roots (known in Chinese as yi

shan shen) are far more common, larger, and cheaper, though they are

still quite expensive. They are generally first planted in tiny

containers and then transplanted into the wild forests, though they

can also be harvested in an immature state in the wild and then

transplanted into a protected forest area. Because the soil has been

loosened and cleared of competing plants, the ginseng can slowly grow

to a decent size (without chemicals or nutrients) over the course of

10–12 years.

 

Roots grown from seed in the wild are grown simply by planting seeds

in the wild forests. The soil is not loosened and the competing

plants remain, and this type of ginseng takes 18–20 years to reach a

very small but harvestable size. Transplanted roots can achieve an

average weight of about 6 grams in 10–12 years, but seed-grown roots

often average only about 2 grams after 18–20 years of growth.

 

ASSESSING ROOTS: WILD OR CULTIVATED?

 

When assessing a ginseng root, different rules apply for cultivated

roots vs. " mountain roots " (half-wild or true wild). The most obvious

difference is in size and density. Cultivated roots are large and

consistent, while mountain roots are thin, graceful, and distinctive.

Mountain roots are always sold with their small adventitious rootlets

attached, whereas cultivated ginseng often has the smaller rootlets

cut off. Horizontal striations (ring-like lines on the body of the

root) are more faint and spread out on cultivated roots and are more

dense and abundant on mountain roots. Cultivated roots have shorter

" necks " - the " neck " is a little stub at the top of the root, the

rhizome just below the ground that initiates growth in the spring.

The neck of cultivated roots is short and comparatively fat, whereas

the neck of mountain roots is very long. True wild roots and roots

grown from seed have extremely thin necks, and transplanted roots have

necks that are slightly thicker but are nonetheless much more fine and

elongated than the stubby necks of cultivated roots. Mountain roots

generally have small accessory roots above the main tap root, which

are called " shoulders. " Finally, mountain ginseng has small nodes on

the fine rootlets that are not prominent in field-grown ginseng.

 

The authentic wild product follows a specific progression of node

types on its neck, and the neck is sometimes altered or switched to

fool unwary consumers. Wild products also have rootlets of

approximately equal length, and an intact shoulder root that is an

accessory to the main root. If the tap root is much longer than the

shoulder and other rootlets, it suggests that the soil has been

altered (i.e., the plant was transplanted to the wild). The fine

rootlets should also have many small nodes, which indicate places

where the rootlet tried to grow but encountered an obstruction (again,

less prominent in altered soil). Finally, the striations on the body

of the root should be dense and perfectly round, the circles should be

unbroken. Most of these qualities appear identical between ginseng

grown from seed in the wild and true wild ginseng, which underlines

the importance of having appropriate certifying documents when buying

wild products (which insures authenticity and minimizes ecological

damage by poaching). However, high quality true wild roots often have

minimal striations at the lower part of the roots body, and the

striations on the upper body can achieve perfectly round, smooth,

unbroken lines.

 

CULTIVATED GINSENG

 

Cultivated Asian ginseng is generally better when the roots are larger

and older. It is typically harvested after 4–6 years, though 7-year

or older roots are occasionally seen. On both red and white ginseng,

abundant dense and clear horizontal striations generally indicate good

quality when looking at whole roots, but the striations are not

prominent on all good ginseng. More important is the fragrance when

the ginseng is smelled or cooked, and the clarity and potency of the

taste. In red ginseng especially, rings can be seen on the

cross-section of root slices. These rings, known in Chinese as wen

lu, can sometimes be seen on the bottom of whole roots that are of

good quality. When the roots are sliced, the rings can be seen

easily, and their clarity and quality is of key importance when buying

sliced red ginseng. Additionally, sliced roots with a consistently

wide, round shape are of superior quality. Fragrance, taste, and

effect are the most important factors; there should be no taste or

smell of molasses and the ginseng flavor should be very clean.

 

White ginseng is often sulfured, and the non-sulfured or minimally

sulfured cream-yellow colored roots are superior to highly sulfured,

very white roots. Rings should be visible on cross section, the

flavor should be clear when the root is consumed, and the roots should

have a strong ginseng fragrance without a sulfuric odor. Large,

dense, heavily striated roots are the best; and Korean white ginseng

is often superior to most Chinese white ginseng.

 

MOUNTAIN GINSENG

 

When assessing the quality of mountain ginseng, authenticity is of

utmost importance. Half-wild roots are excellent in terms of quality

and they represent a more sustainable approach ecologically, but they

should be purchased at a reasonable price, not at the wild price. All

mountain ginseng is graded based on age, size, density of striations,

and shape of the root. Roots with a human-like shape are very

expensive. As long as authenticity is ensured, the most important

elements are the age of the roots, absence of mechanical damage or

defects, good freshness and shape, round and clear striations, strong

fragrance, and a sweet and somewhat bitter taste.

[Guest guest]

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus wrote:

>

> , " dmvitello01 "

> <dmvitello@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello All,

> >

> > I'm looking for a quality ginseng to try for a couple of months.

 

Also, watch out for " gong yi shen, " fake wild ginseng that is prepared

by crafting normal field-grown roots. It has two main types:

 

1) Freeze-dried crafted roots, which are typically very large, sold in

a big frame, and look quite impressive. They are generally sulfured

so they look rather white, and they typically have multiple " shoulder "

roots super-glued to the neck (basically whole small ginseng roots

posing as shoulder roots coming off the neck). The neck is overlarge

and close inspection reveals spots on the neck that are super glued

together. The freeze-drying makes the root look much larger than

normal sun-drying, which is also a dead giveaway. Plus, because the

root is field-grown, the fine rootlets tend to lack " pearl spots, " the

small protrusions off the rootlets that are characteristic of

forest-grown ginseng. This type of gong yi shen often also has round

striations cut into the body to simulate wild ginseng.

 

2) The other main type of gong yi shen consists of young mountain

roots that have been artificially crafted to look older. This is

typically done with super glue, joining older necks to the younger

ginseng root, sometimes with multiple necks glued together. Often a

few fake shoulder roots are glued onto the neck for good measure. The

striations are again artificially cut.

 

You can get some good looking gong yi shen for about 5 bucks if you

know where to look, but you wouldn't want to eat it. It can be a good

wall decoration at best.

 

Just letting you know what to watch out for, since you are on the hunt

for good ginseng and I'd hate to see you fall for one of the classic

fakes.

 

Additionally, you should know about dong yang shen, which is good

ginseng. Dong yang shen traditionally refers to Panax ginseng that is

grown in Japan, though now the dong yang shen processing technique is

also applied to Korean (and, to a lesser extent, Chinese) ginseng.

Dong yang shen is pre-boiled briefly as part of its pao zhi, and it

acquires a characteristic appearance of being whitish on the outside

and red on the inside. Dong yang shen tends not to produce heat, but

it is weaker than red ginseng. Sort of intermediate betweeen red and

white in that sense, though it is typically much more expensive than

white; good dong yang shen has a comparable price to good red ginseng.

 

Have a happy quest to find good ginseng. Good ginseng is truly

profound stuff.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

I sell 3 types of Ginseng, standard Chinese ginseng in liquid form as

well as Il Hwa and Korean Red Ginseng in various forms.

 

The best company by far is Korean Red Ginseng which is owned by the

korean govt. The extract, paste is the best. Il Hwa is well known in

the West, but isn't as good as Korean Red Ginseng. Personally, i

wouldn't take Chinese ginseng as the quality is not great, but it's cheap.

 

Eric's comments are really helpful and can well be made into an

article, hint hint

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

 

, " dmvitello01 "

<dmvitello wrote:

>

> Hello All,

>

> I'm looking for a quality ginseng to try for a couple of months.

>

> I've never tried the " really good " stuff and thinks its about.

>

> Any recommendations?

>

> Anyone ever tried Gintec from Germany?

>

> Thanks for any help you can offer.

>

> David Vitello

>

[Guest guest]

, " "

<attiliodalberto wrote:

> The best company by far is Korean Red Ginseng which is owned by the

> korean govt.

 

I think the company you are referring to is commonly known by their

Chinese name " Zheng Guan Zhuang " (this is the one on your website).

Outside of Korea, this is basically the main trusted source for

authentic Korean red ginseng. Much " Korean " ginseng is counterfeit,

grown in China and sold as Korean. Even within Korea, it is common

for smuggled high-end Chinese ginseng to be sold as Korean ginseng,

because Korean ginseng commands a higher price.

 

Zheng guan zhuang is basically a tightly controlled company that is

connected to the government, and their ginseng is true Korean ginseng.

The quality is very high and the company is the most trusted and

authentic overseas distributor, but the price is also quite high (can

be over $1000 US for 600g of the best roots). Their exclusive US

distributor is Irvine Trading Company, I believe.

 

For metal cans of premium Korean red ginseng, zheng guan zhuang is

pretty much the main brand that I would trust. For less expensive

options, buy the tails instead of the body (not as good but still good

and much less expensive), or buy the " cut " roots. The cut roots are

the best deal by far, the can contains mixed grades of Korean roots

that have been damaged by the machines that cut and press the roots.

These roots don't look pretty but the quality is very good for the

price, much less expensive that the other products (though still well

over $100/600g).

 

Avoid " Korean " ginseng that is sold in metal boxes that are packaged

in Hong Kong, most of these are counterfeit. In fact, most of what is

sold as Korean ginseng is counterfeit worldwide. The reason that

zheng guan zhuang is the main global brand and fetches such a high

price is because they are really the main name that can be trusted.

(Hsu's American ginseng occupies a similar role in the market for

authentic Wisconsin American ginseng- their products are pricey but

they are authentic, most of the rest of the " Wisconsin " American

ginseng on the market is an imitation.)

 

In my previous post, I mentioned the freeze-dried type of " gong yi

shen, " one of the prominent fake wild ginseng products on the market.

Curious people can see some perfect specimens of these fakes (at

ridiculous prices, of course) on E-Bay by searching for wild ginseng.

 

If anyone knows a good source for true wild or woods-grown American

ginseng, please contact me off list.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

Eric,

What a wonderful article! Thank you for making this available,

and for all your untiring work to upgrade the standards and practice

of Chinese medicine!

 

 

On Oct 21, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Eric Brand wrote:

 

> , " dmvitello01 "

> <dmvitello wrote:

> >

> > Hello All,

> >

> > I'm looking for a quality ginseng to try for a couple of months.

> >

> > I've never tried the " really good " stuff and thinks its about.

> >

> > Any recommendations?

>

> Here is some more trustworthy ginseng info for you:

>

> By Eric Brand

>

> CULTIVATED VS WILD

>

> The vast majority of ginseng is cultivated. Wild roots and half-wild

> roots ( " mountain roots " ) exist on the market, but they are rarely used

> clinically because of their expense is generally prohibitive. Most

> wild or half-wild roots are not put in prescriptions, but are rather

> framed for display or given as gifts. Eventually they are often

> sliced and eaten straight or may be soaked in alcohol and consumed

> over a prolonged period of time. By contrast, cultivated ginseng is

> typically consumed in normal Chinese herbal decoctions, medicinal

> soups, or simply on its own by cooking it in a double-boiler; it may

> also be taken directly as a powder or the whole roots can be soaked in

> alcohol.

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Eric,

 

Nice post! I was wondering if you could comment on the authenticity of the

certificates that accompany higher priced and even many average priced roots. A

couple of days ago I was looking at some roots and many were over 200,000rmb

(app $29411) per root. These roots (and the much cheaper ones) have

" certificates " that contain a picture of the root with usually some serial

number that one can use to verify its authenticity I assume on some website

(??). Is there one single agency that does this? If so, where is it?

 

I get the sense, as with anything in China, there are more fakes than not. The

funniest was a gift I received once. It was a nice transplanted ginseng

(yishanshen), however the picture that came with it was of a different root (red

Korean - no rootlets etc)- they looked NOTHING alike. Quite humorous... I still

can't figure out if they thought I was too white to notice or they just didn't

care - Anyway I have always wondered how reliable these pictures are in

determining authenticity. Clearly people can slap a number on a paper, tie it

around the root, take a picture and include it with the sale. I am sure this is

happening. Any insight on these certificates?

 

-Jason

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " "

wrote:

>

> Eric,

>

> Nice post! I was wondering if you could comment on the authenticity

of the certificates that accompany higher priced and even many average

priced roots. A couple of days ago I was looking at some roots and

many were over 200,000rmb (app $29411) per root. These roots (and the

much cheaper ones) have " certificates " that contain a picture of the

root with usually some serial number that one can use to verify its

authenticity I assume on some website (??). Is there one single agency

that does this? If so, where is it?

 

Very good question. To fill people in, we are talking about

individual ginseng roots that are accompanied by digital photographs,

tracking numbers, and certificates of authenticity. At the highest

level, the digital photographs and tracking numbers can be compared to

a Chinese government database so that one can check the root that they

purchased to verify its authenticity.

 

Here's the rub: There are many certificates issues by many different

agencies, and only one of the certifying bodies is actually

meaningful, the rest all have loose standards. Furthermore, most of

the certificates, upon close inspection, certify that the root is

" shan shen, " mountain ginseng, instead of " ye shan shen, " wild

mountain ginseng. In other words, they are certifying the root, but

they are only certifying that it is mountain grown, not wild. This is

totally meaningless, just a sham to catch those not in the know.

 

So in summary, most of the certificates are basically a sham. There

is a real system in place that has meaning, but most of the photos and

certificates are just copycats of the real system and are totally

meaningless. Ginseng experts estimate that over 98% of the wild

ginseng products on the market are fakes (half-wild ginseng

masquerading as wild), so buying a wild ginseng root without a true

ginseng expert to guide you would be like buying an antique without an

expert who understands the world of fakes and fake documents. Even in

famous shops like Tong Ren Tang, fakes abound.

 

Real wild ginseng still exists in isolated collections, but it is

virtually extinct. It takes real expertise to differentiate, and

there are people who spend their whole life mastering this art.

Sometimes you can see true wild roots that have perfectly round

striations that are quite distinct; I've never seen half-wild roots

show these, but I've seen half-wild roots that come close and I've

seen wild roots that lack these perfect lines. Quite complicated!

 

Anyway, the take home message is that wild roots are mostly false,

most of the documentation is meaningless, and the real deal is so

astronomically expensive (and ecologically devastating) that it is

completely pointless to pursue it. Far better is to just seek out

half-wild roots and get them for a reasonable price.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

Thank you Eric and others for your input and wisdom on this matter.

It is much appreciated.

 

David Vitello

 

 

 

 

 

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus wrote:

>

> , " "

> <@> wrote:

> >

> > Eric,

> >