SV: SV: pressure cookers in Chinese medicine

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric

 

 

 

Thanks for your answer!

 

 

 

I live in Sweden, so driving to LA and stuck them in my car will be quite a

days work :-)

 

 

 

Any tip in Europe?

 

 

 

BR

 

Carl

 

 

 

_____

 

Från:

För Eric Brand

Skickat: den 4 december 2008 23:29

Till:

Ämne: Re: SV: pressure cookers in Chinese medicine

 

 

 

@ <%40>

, " Carl "

<carlhenryk.wallmark wrote:

>

> Very interesting Eric!

>

>

>

> Do you have any tip on where to find good Pressure-based stainless steel

> extraction machines, for use in a small clinic?

 

Hi Carl,

 

I don't know where you live, but big cities are the best places to

look, esp. SF, LA, and NYC. I got mine from KM Supplies in LA

Koreatown, the company that makes it is called Kyungseo. Google them

and KM Supplies and you should be all set. Shipping will be expensive

if you have to ship the machines, since they are very heavy. I drove

to LA and stuck them in my car, at the time they cost about $1200 per

machine (cooking and packing). That was about 8 years ago, so I'm not

sure what the price is like now.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Carl "

<carlhenryk.wallmark wrote:

> I live in Sweden, so driving to LA and stuck them in my car will be

quite a

> days work :-)

>

>

>

> Any tip in Europe?

 

You could try shipping it from Korea or China? Or perhaps someone in

the group has some tips? I know Trevor Erikson is on CHA, he is a

student of Mazin Al-Khafagi, and I know Mazin has his own machines in

the UK. Perhaps they are available in London or another big city in

Europe?

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric,

 

You can get stainless steel pressure cookers from the German company

Manttra (with umlaut over the first a). They have a whole array of pressure

cookers and several sizes too. I own the " 100 Series " and it is fantastic

for cooking the herbs. It preserves the spirit of the decoction and you get

more of it too. So, go to www.manttra.com

 

Kind regards,

Gloria

 

P.S.: The company has nothing to do with Chinese medicine, but who cares,

they have the pressure cooker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Eric Brand <smilinglotus

 

Thursday, December 4, 2008 6:00:05 PM

Re: SV: SV: pressure cookers in Chinese medicine

 

 

, " Carl "

<carlhenryk. wallmark@ ...> wrote:

> I live in Sweden, so driving to LA and stuck them in my car will be

quite a

> days work :-)

>

>

>

> Any tip in Europe?

 

You could try shipping it from Korea or China? Or perhaps someone in

the group has some tips? I know Trevor Erikson is on CHA, he is a

student of Mazin Al-Khafagi, and I know Mazin has his own machines in

the UK. Perhaps they are available in London or another big city in

Europe?

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mazin buys his machines direct from Asia. He spends about a month

every year in China buying herbs and supplies. He even sends his

pharmacist over to Asia to learn how to repair the machines when they

break.

 

I could ask him about his supplier and will let you know what he says :-)

 

Trevor

 

 

, " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote:

>

> , " Carl "

> <carlhenryk.wallmark@> wrote:

> > I live in Sweden, so driving to LA and stuck them in my car will be

> quite a

> > days work :-)

> >

> >

> >

> > Any tip in Europe?

>

> You could try shipping it from Korea or China? Or perhaps someone in

> the group has some tips? I know Trevor Erikson is on CHA, he is a

> student of Mazin Al-Khafagi, and I know Mazin has his own machines in

> the UK. Perhaps they are available in London or another big city in

> Europe?

>

> Eric

>

[Guest guest]

, The Traveler

<dumai20baihui wrote:

>

> Hi Eric,

>

> You can get stainless steel pressure cookers from the German company

> Manttra (with umlaut over the first a). They have a whole array of

pressure

> cookers and several sizes too. I own the " 100 Series " and it is

fantastic

> for cooking the herbs. It preserves the spirit of the decoction and

you get

> more of it too. So, go to www.manttra.com

 

Hi Gloria,

 

I think the product you are talking about is a normal pressure cooker,

for use in a kitchen. While of course a normal pressure cooker works

very well for decocting herbs, the article is discussing a specialized

machine used for Chinese medicine. It stands alone, it isn't a

stovetop pressure cooker but rather an extraction machine paired with

a packing machine. Your method is perfect for the average

practitioner, but I wanted to show you a website that has photos of

the machines I am discussing, just so that people can see the

specialized TCM device.

 

See http://www.kyungseo.co.kr/english/index.html

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

<http://www.manttra.com>

 

>

> Hi Gloria,

>

> I think the product you are talking about is a normal pressure cooker,

> for use in a kitchen. While of course a normal pressure cooker works

> very well for decocting herbs,

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be interested in anybody's experience with cooking herbs for an

individual in a household pressure cooker. I think its a great idea, but I'm

not confident I would know how long is best or if the usual two brews is

appropriate. Anybody got an opinion on this?

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Al Stone " <al wrote:

> I'd be interested in anybody's experience with cooking herbs for an

> individual in a household pressure cooker. I think its a great idea,

but I'm

> not confident I would know how long is best or if the usual two brews is

> appropriate. Anybody got an opinion on this?

 

Based on my experience, it generally works well if you cover the herbs

about an inch or so over with water (presoaking the herbs in cold

water is best). Then bring the water to a boil and let it cook under

pressure for about 30-40 minutes. Strain it and take it in doses of

about 4-6 fl. oz, once or twice per day.

 

Most people only cook the herbs a single time in the pressure cooker.

For delicate and aromatic herbs, use a shorter decoction time or just

cook them normally on the stovetop without the pressure cooker.

Sometimes people cook supplementing formulas for several hours in a

pressure cooker, but exterior-resolving herbs and the like should

generally only have a short decoction time.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric,

 

Didn't know you were discussing industrial. My bad.

 

Gloria

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Eric Brand <smilinglotus

 

Friday, December 5, 2008 10:12:25 AM

Re: SV: SV: pressure cookers in Chinese medicine

 

 

, The Traveler

<dumai20baihui@ ...> wrote:

>

> Hi Eric,

>

> You can get stainless steel pressure cookers from the German company

> Manttra (with umlaut over the first a). They have a whole array of

pressure

> cookers and several sizes too. I own the " 100 Series " and it is

fantastic

> for cooking the herbs. It preserves the spirit of the decoction and

you get

> more of it too. So, go to www.manttra. com

 

Hi Gloria,

 

I think the product you are talking about is a normal pressure cooker,

for use in a kitchen. While of course a normal pressure cooker works

very well for decocting herbs, the article is discussing a specialized

machine used for Chinese medicine. It stands alone, it isn't a

stovetop pressure cooker but rather an extraction machine paired with

a packing machine. Your method is perfect for the average

practitioner, but I wanted to show you a website that has photos of

the machines I am discussing, just so that people can see the

specialized TCM device.

 

See http://www.kyungseo .co.kr/english/ index.html

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Al,

 

I bring the brew up to pressure and then turn it down so it is not expressing

steam, then let it cook for 20-30 minutes (20 is probably enough, but I often go

to 30 depending on the plants in the soup). No need for a " double boil. "

 

Thomas

 

 

Beijing, China

Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A

Practitioners Guide

Check out my blog: www.sourcepointherbs.blogspot.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks, seems like a no-brainer on using a pressure cooker for herbs, and

they don't break as easily as those bulky ceramic jobs.

 

Also, good job on your blog. Thanks for linking to the bluepoppy article on

Dang Gui and estrogen-dependent breast cancer (spoiler alert: Dang Gui had

NO aggravation of the breast cancer line in vitro.)

 

-al.

 

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 9:19 AM,

wrote:

 

> Hi Al,

>

> I bring the brew up to pressure and then turn it down so it is not

> expressing steam, then let it cook for 20-30 minutes (20 is probably enough,

> but I often go to 30 depending on the plants in the soup). No need for a

> " double boil. "

>

> Thomas

>

>

> Beijing, China

> Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A

> Practitioners Guide

> Check out my blog: www.sourcepointherbs.blogspot.com

>

>

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

But aren't most of these metal? Or are a number of them ceramic inside?

Doug

 

 

 

, " Al Stone " <al wrote:

>

> Thanks, seems like a no-brainer on using a pressure cooker for

herbs, and

> they don't break as easily as those bulky ceramic jobs.

>

> Also, good job on your blog. Thanks for linking to the bluepoppy

article on

> Dang Gui and estrogen-dependent breast cancer (spoiler alert: Dang

Gui had

> NO aggravation of the breast cancer line in vitro.)

>

> -al.

>

> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 9:19 AM,

> wrote:

>

> > Hi Al,

> >

> > I bring the brew up to pressure and then turn it down so it is not

> > expressing steam, then let it cook for 20-30 minutes (20 is

probably enough,

> > but I often go to 30 depending on the plants in the soup). No need

for a

> > " double boil. "

> >

> > Thomas

> >

> >

> > Beijing, China

> > Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A

> > Practitioners Guide

> > Check out my blog: www.sourcepointherbs.blogspot.com

> >

> >

>

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

They're stainless steel.

Gloria

 

 

 

 

________________________________

 

 

Monday, December 8, 2008 1:36:51 PM

Re: SV: SV: pressure cookers in Chinese medicine

 

 

But aren't most of these metal? Or are a number of them ceramic inside?

Doug

 

, " Al Stone " <al wrote:

>

> Thanks, seems like a no-brainer on using a pressure cooker for

herbs, and

> they don't break as easily as those bulky ceramic jobs.

>

> Also, good job on your blog. Thanks for linking to the bluepoppy

article on

> Dang Gui and estrogen-dependent breast cancer (spoiler alert: Dang

Gui had

> NO aggravation of the breast cancer line in vitro.)

>

> -al.

>

> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 9:19 AM,

> @ ...>wrote:

>

> > Hi Al,

> >

> > I bring the brew up to pressure and then turn it down so it is not

> > expressing steam, then let it cook for 20-30 minutes (20 is

probably enough,

> > but I often go to 30 depending on the plants in the soup). No need

for a

> > " double boil. "

> >

> > Thomas

> >

> >

> > Beijing, China

> > Author of Western Herbs According to Traditional : A

> > Practitioners Guide

> > Check out my blog: www.sourcepointherb s.blogspot. com

> >

> >

>

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ahhh... ok then. thanks,

doug

 

 

, The Traveler

<dumai20baihui wrote:

>

> They're stainless steel.

> Gloria

>

>

>

>

>

> But aren't most of these metal? Or are a number of them ceramic inside?

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " "

wrote:

>

> ahhh... ok then. thanks,

 

Stainless steel is generally thought to be fine. Basically all

pressure cookers and most herb extractors are made with stainless

steel, though there are ceramic lined extraction machines and glass

extraction machines available for a high price to the purists (don't

know if they use pressure, though).

 

Stainless steel wasn't around historically, and a number of herbs were

thought to interact with iron. But now that stainless steel is around,

there is pretty close to complete consensus that stainless steel is

perfectly fine; it is basically totally inert, and lacks the chemical

reactions that occur with the use of iron.

 

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

I can remember almost 20 years ago when I first took my first raw

herbs. I cooked them a couple of weeks in a metal pot. (I'm thought

the herbalist was just trying to add to my bill.) I was skeptical but

when I switched to the clay pot and glass containers I really did feel

the difference in how much better the herbs worked. Made a believer

out of me.

Doug

 

 

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus wrote:

>

> , " "

> <taiqi@> wrote:

> >

> > ahhh... ok then. thanks,

>

> Stainless steel is generally thought to be fine. Basically all

> pressure cookers and most herb extractors are made with stainless

> steel, though there are ceramic lined extraction machines and glass

> extraction machines available for a high price to the purists (don't

> know if they use pressure, though).

>

> Stainless steel wasn't around historically, and a number of herbs were

> thought to interact with iron. But now that stainless steel is around,

> there is pretty close to complete consensus that stainless steel is

> perfectly fine; it is basically totally inert, and lacks the chemical

> reactions that occur with the use of iron.

>

>

> Eric

>

[Guest guest]

What about the issue of foam bubbling up into the steam valve and

blocking it?

[Guest guest]

, " bill_schoenbart "

<plantmed2 wrote:

>

> What about the issue of foam bubbling up into the steam valve and

> blocking it?

 

I've only ever used a professional extractor to pressure cook the

herbs, so I've never run into this problem. The machine has a press

that provides space between the top and the steam valve.

 

On a related question, does anybody know if it is dangerous to use

alcohol in a closed extractor? The unit has electrical heat with no

direct contact, and it is sealed. I would presume that the main risk

is explosion from ignition of alcohol steam, but if the steam is

contained and the liquid cools slowly without ever opening the steam

valve, would it be safe? I know that alcohol has a lower boiling

point than water, but I don't know if it poses any differences or

unseen risks as far as the building of pressure goes. I would

normally try cooking it at a fairly low temperature, but I've always

been nervous to try. Any chemistry majors out there that could field

this question?

 

Eric