RE: Now Foil Packets was Granule conentration ratios

[Guest guest]

Group,

 

 

 

This conversation did inspire me to investigate these foil packets a bit in

the clinic. I have a couple of questions.

 

 

 

1) What companies supply them in the US?

 

2) Once opened how long are they good (e.g. before clumping etc.)

 

3) How are they shipped and how do people store them in the clinic? It

seems like with 300+ herbs these packets might be a bit hard to manage. How

do people deal with this issue?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of

Friday, January 23, 2009 12:35 AM

 

Re: Granule conentration ratios

 

 

 

hmmmm... well, CHA has had the pleasure of this impressive exchange

between two really impressive figures. Eric and Jason, you both

constantly amaze me with the depth of your knowledge and passion

towards each subject you take on.

 

There is no need to apologize... in my view, the granule question will

remain a question as long as we have the privilege of using raw herbs

to compare them to. I just throw up my hands when faced with trying to

explain how to dose granules. (I use what is on the box so to speak) I

see the issues (and I've kind of forgotten what they are) as pretty

unresolvable. Therefore I especially admire and tip my hat for the

attempt to unravel the connection between what has been in the books

for a few thousand years and the technological developments of the

last 50 years.

 

At some point, (if not now or perhaps it has already happened),

granules will be their own " standard " . Many questions continue to

remain, perhaps we, (CHA- Eric, Jason, Trevor, Al, Alon and all who

contributed to this long thread) will revisit it.

 

Doug

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In our office my colleague has them in plastic " shoe box " containers,

each set of herbs in its own plastic bag. The clumping seems to be the

same as other granules. My colleague gives her to the patient in the

foil. The patients don't especially like to open all the foils at home

but she explains that in the foil they are returnable and she tells

the patient that they are fresher that way.

 

I tend only to use the our instore herbs for short term " emergencies "

and prefer to send out to Quali for orders or use Al who has his own

pharmacy locally. I don't ever have the " returnable " issue. !! :-)

 

We do have a fairly good collection that sits on 3 6 foot bookshelves.

 

Doug

 

>

> 2) Once opened how long are they good (e.g. before clumping etc.)

>

> 3) How are they shipped and how do people store them in the

clinic? It

> seems like with 300+ herbs these packets might be a bit hard to

manage. How

> do people deal with this issue?

>

>

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

>

>

> -Jason

[Guest guest]

Jason,

 

I think Ray Rubio in California uses the E Feng foil packs as well,

meaning that they must be available in the states.

 

In terms of storing them, we have many different plastic boxes, shoe

box size, like douglas mentioned. We partition them in half, so that

we can put two different herbs in each box. We then stack the boxes up

on several shelves. Pretty easy system. We also have some storage of

back up herbs when we run out, although our supplier can usually have

extra herbs delivered within the same day if needed.

 

I was just looking at some of the foil packages to show some examples

of the variance in concentration ratios and the amount of granule per

pack:

 

ERH= Equivalent Raw Herb

 

Da Huang- 2.5g of granule = 6 g ERH

Bai Zhu- 3g of granule = 10g ERH

Sheng Di Huang- 2g of granule = 10g ERH

Shu Di Huang- 2.5g of granule = 10g ERH

Pu Gong Ying- 0.9g of granule = 10g ERH

Chai Hu-0.7g of granule = 6g ERH

 

Anyways you get the idea. If I want 20g of Sheng Di, then I will give

them 2 packs per day. If I want 18g of Chai Hu then I give them 3

packs per day.

 

Some herbs do come in multiple sized packs- ie. 5g, 10g, 15g weights.

 

As I mentioned, the beauty of this system is that I don't have to

worry about any extra math, it is all taken care of for me. The

downfall is obviously the waste and time it takes to open all the packs!

 

In terms of making people sick with this system, I have dosed upwards

of 20 packs per day and have never had much problem. Most problems I

see are some type of reaction to one herb, that tends to be

idiosyncratic (a kind of one off situation for that particular person)

 

So I first started this thread because, as I mentioned, a friend

brought up some news to me that any granule over the 5:1 ratio is

crap. This obviously had me concerned, as you can see above that many

of the herbs I use daily are above this ratio. From the discussion

that has taken place, and from my own clinical experience, I now

believe this information to be false.

 

This is a much needed conversation to have, as it seems that most

practitioners in the west are actually clueless as to how the granules

are prepared and hold many wrong, or un-educated, views about them.

Some via granular companies sale pitches and others through just plain

guessing. I am sure that this discussion has helped illuminate the

issue for many others, as it has for me.

 

Thanks for all the input,

Trevor

 

, " "

wrote:

>

> In our office my colleague has them in plastic " shoe box " containers,

> each set of herbs in its own plastic bag. The clumping seems to be the

> same as other granules. My colleague gives her to the patient in the

> foil. The patients don't especially like to open all the foils at home

> but she explains that in the foil they are returnable and she tells

> the patient that they are fresher that way.

>

> I tend only to use the our instore herbs for short term " emergencies "

> and prefer to send out to Quali for orders or use Al who has his own

> pharmacy locally. I don't ever have the " returnable " issue. !! :-)

>

> We do have a fairly good collection that sits on 3 6 foot bookshelves.

>

> Doug

>

> >

> > 2) Once opened how long are they good (e.g. before clumping etc.)

> >

> > 3) How are they shipped and how do people store them in the

> clinic? It

> > seems like with 300+ herbs these packets might be a bit hard to

> manage. How

> > do people deal with this issue?

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks in advance,

> >

> >

> >

> > -Jason

>