granule correction - corn derivatives

[Guest guest]

Corn and it's bi-products are an extremely hidden group in all

products. It goes under names such as: dextrin, unspecified starches,

maltodextrin, microcrystaline cellulose, calcium citrate, maltitol,

etc. It is hidden in many stages of the powder, tablet and

encapsulation process. I have been searching for a herb company that

I can take tablets or caps since I am allergic to corn and corn

bi-products. It is a word game and many companies, manufactures and

suppliers do not know what their filler/spray products are derived

from. I have yet to find a herb company that does not use a

bi-product of corn in tablets, capsules and tinctures at some stage of

their production process.

 

Please, only give those with corn allergies raw formulations and even

then proceed with caution. It is best to proceed to trust your

patients in this area.

 

Evergreen uses corn starch. Two year ago they said they were changing

over to rice starch but, as of a month and a half ago, it had not

manifested.

[Guest guest]

As I mentioned a year ago or so, one of my patients with a soy

sensitivity really went beserk on a powdered formula. Does anyone know

about soy in the granules?

 

Doug

 

, " leach_rachel "

<leach_rachel wrote:

>

> Corn and it's bi-products are an extremely hidden group in all

> products. It goes under names such as: dextrin, unspecified starches,

> maltodextrin, microcrystaline cellulose, calcium citrate, maltitol,

> etc. It is hidden in many stages of the powder, tablet and

> encapsulation process. I have been searching for a herb company that

> I can take tablets or caps since I am allergic to corn and corn

> bi-products. It is a word game and many companies, manufactures and

> suppliers do not know what their filler/spray products are derived

> from. I have yet to find a herb company that does not use a

> bi-product of corn in tablets, capsules and tinctures at some stage of

> their production process.

>

> Please, only give those with corn allergies raw formulations and even

> then proceed with caution. It is best to proceed to trust your

> patients in this area.

>

> Evergreen uses corn starch. Two year ago they said they were changing

> over to rice starch but, as of a month and a half ago, it had not

> manifested.

>

[Guest guest]

, " leach_rachel "

<leach_rachel wrote:

>

> Corn and it's bi-products are an extremely hidden group in all

> products. It goes under names such as: dextrin, unspecified starches,

> maltodextrin, microcrystaline cellulose, calcium citrate, maltitol,

> etc. It is hidden in many stages of the powder, tablet and

> encapsulation process. I have been searching for a herb company that

> I can take tablets or caps since I am allergic to corn and corn

> bi-products.

 

Well, for starters you would be fine with either Blue Poppy capsules

or products made by KPC. KPC uses only non-GMO potato starch, and

Blue Poppy doesn't use any fillers at all. Since normal granules have

about 50% starch as a filler, it is much more efficient to use

products that lack filler (such as Blue Poppy's) if you need to take

them in gelcap form. Swallowing gelcaps is a nuisance, so it is

better if you only have to take half as many gelcaps to get the same

amount of raw herbs.

 

There is no need to use filler if you are taking products in a

capsule, the filler is only required if you are mixing bulk granule

products together. The starch filler prevents loose granular powders

from clumping, but it is unnecessary if you are using capsules. Of

course, if a given case cannot rely on standard prepared formulas and

one has to mix and encapsulate customized powders, then it is hard to

get away from the starch. In my experience, 20+ capsules a day gets

to be a turnoff for many patients, so I either have them suck it up

and deal with the taste or else I use more concentrated capsule

products so that the filler isn't taking up valuable capsule space.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus wrote:

>

> , " leach_rachel "

> <leach_rachel@> wrote:

> >

> > Corn and it's bi-products are an extremely hidden group in all

> > products. It goes under names such as: dextrin, unspecified starches,

> > maltodextrin, microcrystaline cellulose, calcium citrate, maltitol,

> > etc.

 

I also wonder how much true allergenic potential some of these things

have. It is the proteins in corn, peanuts, etc that produce the

allergic response, and some of the more pure pharmaceutical excipients

listed above may not pose any problems. For example, my best friend

is deathly allergic to peanuts, but he can have peanut oil because the

oil doesn't contain the allergenic proteins. Does anyone on the list

have the technical expertise to tackle this question?

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

 

> Since normal granules have

> about 50% starch as a filler,

>

 

 

 

 

Is this true of PRC granules as well?

 

That seems like an astoundingly high quantity.

 

I also noticed that my PRC granules requires more powder (by weight) to fill

100 capsules than the Taiwanese or American brands.

 

It takes about 50 grams of the granules of my PRC brand (Tianjiang Pharm.

Co.) to make 100 capsules. It takes about 45 grams of the Taiwanese brands

(Evergreen, KPC), and using the Brion herbs out of Irvine CA., it takes

about 35 grams.

 

The Brion extracts are the most flaky (texture) and is the most difficult to

compress into the capsule. It's really light, like talcum powder. Taiwanese

brands less so, and PRC brand the least. is that consistent with the

quantity of filler, the exraction process, none of the above?

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have been purchasing herbs from Treasures of the East lately. Their herbs are

extracted in china under the name blue light. Here is a link to their site:

 

http://www.treasureofeast.com/index.html

 

What I like about the singles and formulas is the herbal aroma which is

different than the KPC products I have used. I am curious if anyone else has

tried them and their experience.

--

thanks,

Warren L. Cargal

www.acuatlanta.net

www.fertilitynow.net

www.canceroptions.net

404-233-5080

 

-------------- Original message from Al Stone <al: --------------

 

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

 

> Since normal granules have

> about 50% starch as a filler,

>

 

Is this true of PRC granules as well?

 

That seems like an astoundingly high quantity.

 

I also noticed that my PRC granules requires more powder (by weight) to fill

100 capsules than the Taiwanese or American brands.

 

It takes about 50 grams of the granules of my PRC brand (Tianjiang Pharm.

Co.) to make 100 capsules. It takes about 45 grams of the Taiwanese brands

(Evergreen, KPC), and using the Brion herbs out of Irvine CA., it takes

about 35 grams.

 

The Brion extracts are the most flaky (texture) and is the most difficult to

compress into the capsule. It's really light, like talcum powder. Taiwanese

brands less so, and PRC brand the least. is that consistent with the

quantity of filler, the exraction process, none of the above?

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:18 AM, <wcargal9 wrote:

 

> I have been purchasing herbs from Treasures of the East lately.

>

 

 

 

That's the PRC brand I use too. It is manufactured at the " Tianjiang

Pharmaceutical Company. " Eric Brand is also a distributor at

http://legendaryherbs.com

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I thought Brion herbs is from Sun Ten, Taiwan. If Eric can clarify it.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

 

 

Al Stone <al

 

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 08:02:40

 

Re: Re: granule correction - corn derivatives

 

 

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

 

> Since normal granules have

> about 50% starch as a filler,

>

 

 

 

 

Is this true of PRC granules as well?

 

That seems like an astoundingly high quantity.

 

I also noticed that my PRC granules requires more powder (by weight) to fill

100 capsules than the Taiwanese or American brands.

 

It takes about 50 grams of the granules of my PRC brand (Tianjiang Pharm.

Co.) to make 100 capsules. It takes about 45 grams of the Taiwanese brands

(Evergreen, KPC), and using the Brion herbs out of Irvine CA., it takes

about 35 grams.

 

The Brion extracts are the most flaky (texture) and is the most difficult to

compress into the capsule. It's really light, like talcum powder. Taiwanese

brands less so, and PRC brand the least. is that consistent with the

quantity of filler, the exraction process, none of the above?

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Ta-Ya Lee " <tlee19 wrote:

>

> I thought Brion herbs is from Sun Ten, Taiwan. If Eric can clarify it.

 

Yes, Brion is one of the trade names that Sun Ten uses.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

, Al Stone <al wrote:

> > Since normal granules have

> > about 50% starch as a filler,

> Is this true of PRC granules as well?

 

Each brand and each product is different. For example, some factories

in Taiwan use a variable amount of starch, different amounts for

different products. Other Taiwanese companies use the same amount for

most products, with minor variations. Some Taiwanese manufacturers

consistently use more and some consistently use less, but there are

multiple factors involved beyond the starch quantity- we did a bunch

of blind tastings of Taiwanese products and actually one of the

companies with a lower starch content wasn't the big winner overall.

Again, it tends to come back to the quality of the raw herbs that are

used.

 

If you are talking about granules packaged in 100 g loose bottles, the

PRC granules tend to have less filler than the Taiwanese granules, but

the Taiwanese ones tend to be more fragrant when one opens the bottle.

This may be because they add back the essential oils right at the end

(versus earlier in the process). At any rate, it seems that dextrin

is the main excipient in the PRC, and the characteristics of the

dextrin may account for the larger granule size of most PRC granules.

If you are talking about 5:1 PRC concentrates, the amount of dextrin

is variable (one company in Hong Kong says 5-15%, but I suspect it is

actually more variable than that based on the concentrations of the

starting material). If you are talking about the original granule

products in the PRC, there is no filler at all, just a dry extract.

 

Again, excipients (filler) are needed if one needs to store the powder

in an environment that requires prolonged exposure to air and

humidity. No filler is necessary if one is using single serving

pouches or gelcaps. Most people that use granules use them in a bulk

form and mix them for each patient, this method requires excipients to

prevent the powder from clumping.

 

> I also noticed that my PRC granules requires more powder (by weight)

to fill

> 100 capsules than the Taiwanese or American brands.

 

That is because they have a different density. One is large kernels,

the other is fine powder. The fine powder has more surface area and

takes up more volume at the same weight.

 

Out of curiosity, if you are going to put the granules into gelcaps,

why start with granules that contain filler? There are 10:1

encapsulated extracts on the market, for example, Blue Poppy's line.

They contain no filler, so the patient only has to swallow half as

many gelcaps as they need if one is starting from a 5:1 extract.

 

Filler is totally unnecessary for the gelcap administration method,

though of course the loose granules with filler offer more versatility

if one is mixing highly customized formulas for each patient. But

then again, if the patient can't handle a little bad taste, why bother

giving them a special customized formula in the first place? For

patients that would normally be treated with decoctions, by the time

they ingest a full clinical dose in capsules made from loose granules,

they have to eat 20-30 capsules a day. Compliance with bad taste is

probably easier to achieve than compliance with lots of capsules.

 

(Obviously, some patients have mild or chronic conditions that would

traditionally be treated with non-decoction preparations such as

powders or honey pills, not everyone needs full-strength decoctions.

For patients that don't need such high decoction-style doses, the

appropriate dose is easier to hit without eating so many capsules.)

 

Eric Brand