Guest guest Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for stroke recovery? Thanks, Sean Michael Hall, L.Ac. East Bay Acupuncture & Natural Medicine 2346 Stuart St. Berkeley, CA 94705 (510) 457-8886 www.ebacupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 , " sean_michael_hall " <seanmichaelhall wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for stroke recovery? It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it comes from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the leg up at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits for the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. - Bill , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > , " sean_michael_hall " <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for stroke recovery? > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it comes from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > Eric Brand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 According to Hoy Ping Yee Chan, in her book..Acupuncture for Stroke Rehabilitation, Blue Poppy Press, 2006 pg. 25, Shi Xue-Min's protocol is *Du 26* (.5 " with supplementation technique and sparrow-pecking), *PC 6* (1 - 1.5 " with lifting and thrusting, rotating and draining technique), *SP 6* (.8 - 1 " with the tip of the needle right under the edge of the tibia and draining technique) and secondary points: *HT 1, Lung 5, LI 4 and UB 40* (draining technique w/ lifting and thrusting) According to the study of 2336 participants (1987), there was a 76.7% efficacy rate compared to 36.7% with traditional acu methods. The research team found that the viscosity of both whole blood and blood plasma decreased after treatment and that agglutination of platelets decreased after using this treatment protocol. Kokko On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:04 AM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2wrote: > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the leg up at a 45 > degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits for the patient's > leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > - Bill > > --- In <%40>, > " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > --- In <%40>, > " sean_michael_hall " <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol > for stroke recovery? > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. Shi > Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively dedicated to > acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key reference books in > the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin has 600 patient beds, and > is unique in that it has both in-patient and out-patient services that are > entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi Xue-Min's > student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his methods. I don't > know the technique myself, but I know that it comes from Shi Xue-Min, it is > his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > -- Turtle Island Integrative Health 3280 Adeline St. Berkeley CA 94703 510/ 387-8678 TCM Review director www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Bill, I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 degree angle. Is that right?? ann On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the leg up > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits for > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > - Bill > > , " Eric Brand " > <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it comes > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 or does an assistant hold the leg while you needle? Cara O. Frank, R. OM Six Fishes China Herb Company Chinese Herb Department Tai Sophia Institute www.carafrank.com 215-772-0770 On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:28 AM, A. Brameier wrote: > Bill, > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > degree angle. Is that right?? > ann > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the leg up > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits for > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > - Bill > > > > , " Eric Brand " > > <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it comes > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I " m compiling a list of practitioners around the country who specialize in neurological disorders: MS, Parkinson's and Stroke Rehab. Please email me with your contact so that I can refer patients to you in your area. My focus is post-stroke rehab and work in Berkeley and Walnut Creek, CA. Thanks, Kokko On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:33 AM, cara <herbbabe wrote: > or does an assistant hold the leg while you needle? > > Cara O. Frank, R. OM > Six Fishes > China Herb Company > Director Chinese Herb Department > Tai Sophia Institute > www.carafrank.com > 215-772-0770 > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:28 AM, A. Brameier wrote: > > > Bill, > > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > > degree angle. Is that right?? > > ann > > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the leg up > > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits for > > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > > > - Bill > > > > > > --- In <%40>, > " Eric Brand " > > > <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In <%40>, > " sean_michael_hall " > > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. > > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key > > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin > > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his > > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his > > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it comes > > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 rereading this, it seems you are saying, Bill, that you lift the whole leg of the patient, maybe holding it at the ankle, then needle B40 (weizhong) with the other hand. ?? An unusual technique, surely. Care to post a video on youtube?? :-) ann On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:33 AM, cara wrote: > or does an assistant hold the leg while you needle? > > Cara O. Frank, R. OM > Six Fishes > China Herb Company > Director Chinese Herb Department > Tai Sophia Institute > www.carafrank.com > 215-772-0770 > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:28 AM, A. Brameier wrote: > > > Bill, > > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > > degree angle. Is that right?? > > ann > > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the > leg up > > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits > for > > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > > > - Bill > > > > > > , " Eric Brand " > > > <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top > acupuncturists. > > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several > key > > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in > Tianjin > > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find > his > > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on > his > > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it > comes > > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Your abduct and externally rotate the leg> lift the leg holding just above the popiliteal fossa and needle >angle 45% thrusting back and forth until your produce a knee jerk reflex. Dr. Ross Ralph - A. Brameier Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:52 AM Re: Re: Stroke Protocol rereading this, it seems you are saying, Bill, that you lift the whole leg of the patient, maybe holding it at the ankle, then needle B40 (weizhong) with the other hand. ?? An unusual technique, surely. Care to post a video on youtube?? :-) ann On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:33 AM, cara wrote: > or does an assistant hold the leg while you needle? > > Cara O. Frank, R. OM > Six Fishes > China Herb Company > Director Chinese Herb Department > Tai Sophia Institute > www.carafrank.com > 215-772-0770 > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:28 AM, A. Brameier wrote: > > > Bill, > > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > > degree angle. Is that right?? > > ann > > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the > leg up > > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits > for > > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > > > - Bill > > > > > > , " Eric Brand " > > > <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top > acupuncturists. > > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several > key > > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in > Tianjin > > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find > his > > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on > his > > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it > comes > > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 the person's lying on his back, you said, right? You grasp the leg on the posterior thigh superior to pop crease? If you lift the leg toward the body that is adducting as I see it. Help me here. You rotate it to the side? On Mar 21, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Ross Ralph wrote: > Your abduct and externally rotate the leg> lift the leg holding just > above the popiliteal fossa and needle >angle 45% thrusting back and > forth until your produce a knee jerk reflex. > Dr. Ross Ralph > - > A. Brameier > > Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:52 AM > Re: Re: Stroke Protocol > > rereading this, it seems you are saying, Bill, that you lift the whole > leg of the patient, maybe holding it at the ankle, then needle B40 > (weizhong) with the other hand. ?? An unusual technique, surely. Care > to post a video on youtube?? :-) > > ann > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:33 AM, cara wrote: > > > or does an assistant hold the leg while you needle? > > > > Cara O. Frank, R. OM > > Six Fishes > > China Herb Company > > Director Chinese Herb Department > > Tai Sophia Institute > > www.carafrank.com > > 215-772-0770 > > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:28 AM, A. Brameier wrote: > > > > > Bill, > > > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > > > degree angle. Is that right?? > > > ann > > > > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > > > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke > difficulty in > > > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the > > leg up > > > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits > > for > > > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > > > > > - Bill > > > > > > > > , " Eric Brand " > > > > <smilinglotus wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > > > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top > > acupuncturists. > > > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several > > key > > > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in > > Tianjin > > > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in- > patient > > > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find > > his > > > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was > Shi > > > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on > > his > > > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it > > comes > > > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the > field. > > > > > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for stroke recovery? > " Activating the mind and opening the orifices " is described in Volume II of the PMPH book: Shi Xue-min's Comprehensive Textbook of Acupuncture and Moxibustion. By Shi Xue-min Date Jul 2007 Language English Format 210 mm x 285 mm, 1228 pages ISBN 978-7-117-08699-8/R·8700 Price $ 159.95 I'm sure you can pick up a copy at a deep discount at the next conference in SF, ....even though I cant be there this time. Harry F. Lardner, Projects Editor Peoples Medical Publishing House Beijing, China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 The upper leg is at approximately a 45 degree angle. He holds the leg with one hand and needles with the other. Very strong stimulation, so not for the faint of heart. He taught in our doctoral program last year. I'll see if I can get a video clip. - Bill , " A. Brameier " <snakeoil.works wrote: > > Bill, > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > degree angle. Is that right?? > ann > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the leg up > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits for > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > - Bill > > > > , " Eric Brand " > > <smilinglotus@> wrote: > > > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top acupuncturists. > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several key > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in Tianjin > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find his > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on his > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it comes > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Thanks, Bill, a video clip would be great. It sounds like the foot is just supported on the table normally... or diverted laterally a bit. a On Mar 21, 2009, at 10:54 PM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > The upper leg is at approximately a 45 degree angle. He holds the > leg with one hand and needles with the other. Very strong > stimulation, so not for the faint of heart. > > He taught in our doctoral program last year. I'll see if I can get a > video clip. > > - Bill > > , " A. Brameier " > <snakeoil.works wrote: > > > > Bill, > > I assume you mean bend the knee so that the lower leg is at a 45 > > degree angle. Is that right?? > > ann > > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 11:04 AM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > > > One of his techniques is to use UB40 for post-stroke difficulty in > > > walking. While the patient is lying on his back, he lifts the > leg up > > > at a 45 degree angle and strongly stimulates the point. He waits > for > > > the patient's leg to jerk a few times and removes the needle. > > > > > > - Bill > > > > > > , " Eric Brand " > > > <smilinglotus@> wrote: > > > > > > > > , " sean_michael_hall " > > > <seanmichaelhall@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao > > > protocol for stroke recovery? > > > > > > > > It was created by Shi Xue-Min, one of China's top > acupuncturists. > > > Shi Xue-Min runs the only hospital in China that is exclusively > > > dedicated to acupuncture, and he is the chief editor on several > key > > > reference books in the field of acupuncture. His hospital in > Tianjin > > > has 600 patient beds, and is unique in that it has both in-patient > > > and out-patient services that are entirely based on acupuncture. > > > > > > > > To learn about his system, you'd need to read his work or find > his > > > students. I know that Barry Xin, an instructor at PCOM SD, was Shi > > > Xue-Min's student. Perhaps a PCOMer can ask him for more info on > his > > > methods. I don't know the technique myself, but I know that it > comes > > > from Shi Xue-Min, it is his most famous contribution to the field. > > > > > > > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Harry, Which conference in SF? On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 6:42 PM, skip8080 <skip8080 wrote: > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol > for stroke recovery? > > > > " Activating the mind and opening the orifices " is described in Volume II of > the PMPH book: > > Shi Xue-min's Comprehensive Textbook of Acupuncture and Moxibustion. > > By Shi Xue-min > Date Jul 2007 > Language English > Format 210 mm x 285 mm, 1228 pages > ISBN 978-7-117-08699-8/R·8700 > Price $ 159.95 > > I'm sure you can pick up a copy at a deep discount at the next conference > in SF, ...even though I cant be there this time. > > Harry F. Lardner, Projects Editor > Peoples Medical Publishing House > Beijing, China > > > -- Turtle Island Integrative Health 3280 Adeline St. Berkeley CA 94703 510/ 387-8678 TCM Review director www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Hello All, Just curious- Do you all think there is an opportunity for this kind of treatment in the US? I'm thinking of focusing on post-stroke treatment for my masters dissertation next year, but I'm a bit concerned that I won't have a chance to use it once I return to the US... Regards, Henry , " sean_michael_hall " <seanmichaelhall wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for stroke recovery? > > Thanks, > Sean Michael Hall, L.Ac. > > East Bay Acupuncture & Natural Medicine > 2346 Stuart St. > Berkeley, CA 94705 > (510) 457-8886 > www.ebacupuncture.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Yes, maybe. There is a need. But be prepared to just offer it, someone or some clinic or hospital department may adopt it as their own, re-label it, after they learn it. In a way that's really ok, the profit motive may slowly spread this knowledge. And you can know in your heart you've contributed to people's quality of life. You may also land in a place that respects you and your effort. Make inquiries. --- On Sun, 3/22/09, henry_buchtel <henry.buchtel wrote: henry_buchtel <henry.buchtel Re: Stroke Protocol Sunday, March 22, 2009, 4:44 AM Hello All, Just curious- Do you all think there is an opportunity for this kind of treatment in the US? I'm thinking of focusing on post-stroke treatment for my masters dissertation next year, but I'm a bit concerned that I won't have a chance to use it once I return to the US... Regards, Henry , " sean_michael_ hall " <seanmichaelhall@ ...> wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for stroke recovery? > > Thanks, > Sean Michael Hall, L.Ac. > > East Bay Acupuncture & Natural Medicine > 2346 Stuart St. > Berkeley, CA 94705 > (510) 457-8886 > www.ebacupuncture. com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Henry, How come you wouldn't be able to use it? The acupuncture is not outside of our scope of practice. Herbally, there is more contention. Most stroke formulas are contraindicated with the anti-coagulants that most post-stroke patients are on. Xiao huo luo dan is a great formula, but has 3 toxic herbs and three blood thinners. Bu yang huan wu tang has six blood movers. How do those on the list serve get around with this? K On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:44 AM, henry_buchtel <henry.buchtelwrote: > Hello All, > > Just curious- Do you all think there is an opportunity for this kind of > treatment in the US? > > I'm thinking of focusing on post-stroke treatment for my masters > dissertation next year, but I'm a bit concerned that I won't have a chance > to use it once I return to the US... > > Regards, Henry > > > --- In <%40>, > " sean_michael_hall " <seanmichaelhall wrote: > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol for > stroke recovery? > > > > Thanks, > > Sean Michael Hall, L.Ac. > > > > East Bay Acupuncture & Natural Medicine > > 2346 Stuart St. > > Berkeley, CA 94705 > > (510) 457-8886 > > www.ebacupuncture.com > > > > > -- Turtle Island Integrative Health 3280 Adeline St. Berkeley CA 94703 510/ 387-8678 TCM Review director www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Is the angle of the needle towards the head, or towards the foot? Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Ross Ralph <courtenayhealing wrote: Ross Ralph <courtenayhealing Re: Re: Stroke Protocol Saturday, March 21, 2009, 1:19 PM Your abduct and externally rotate the leg> lift the leg holding just above the popiliteal fossa and needle >angle 45% thrusting back and forth until your produce a knee jerk reflex. Dr. Ross Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 lateral> towards the outside. Ross - Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:36 AM Re: Re: Stroke Protocol Is the angle of the needle towards the head, or towards the foot? Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Ross Ralph <courtenayhealing wrote: Ross Ralph <courtenayhealing Re: Re: Stroke Protocol Saturday, March 21, 2009, 1:19 PM Your abduct and externally rotate the leg> lift the leg holding just above the popiliteal fossa and needle >angle 45% thrusting back and forth until your produce a knee jerk reflex. Dr. Ross Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's UB40. It goes straight in as usual. , < wrote: > > Is the angle of the needle towards the head, or towards the foot? > > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Ross Ralph <courtenayhealing wrote: > > Ross Ralph <courtenayhealing > Re: Re: Stroke Protocol > > Saturday, March 21, 2009, 1:19 PM > > Your abduct and externally rotate the leg> lift the leg holding just above the popiliteal fossa and needle >angle 45% thrusting back and forth until your produce a knee jerk reflex. > Dr. Ross Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi John and mystir, I'm more wondering if stroke patients are currently aware that there is an acupuncture option... I imagine that it would take quite a bit of effort to get the word out that this option exists, do you think this work has been done already in the US? Regards, Henry , mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: > > Yes, maybe. There is a need. But be prepared to just offer it, someone or some clinic or hospital department may adopt it as their own, re-label it, after they learn it. In a way that's really ok, the profit motive may slowly spread this knowledge. And you can know in your heart you've contributed to people's quality of life. > You may also land in a place that respects you and your effort. Make inquiries. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I don't think that the US knows almost anything about acupuncture, except what was shown on Oprah for pain management. Most people think that acupuncture is a spa medicine, not something that can be used for difficult diseases. It will be difficult to get that idea out, but it's not impossible. It's going to take a lot of money, education, research, dedication and unity from the profession. This is something that the national organizations can be pursuing. Doctorate level programs are areas where specialization fields are opportune. Asian medicine can be used for much more than facials, weight loss, infertility and carpal tunnel. Yes, we need to change that perception in order for the medicine to keep evolving in this country. K On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:08 AM, henry_buchtel <henry.buchtelwrote: > Hi John and mystir, > > I'm more wondering if stroke patients are currently aware that there is an > acupuncture option... > > I imagine that it would take quite a bit of effort to get the word out that > this option exists, do you think this work has been done already in the US? > > Regards, Henry > > > --- In <%40>, > mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: > > > > Yes, maybe. There is a need. But be prepared to just offer it, someone or > some clinic or hospital department may adopt it as their own, re-label it, > after they learn it. In a way that's really ok, the profit motive may slowly > spread this knowledge. And you can know in your heart you've contributed to > people's quality of life. > > You may also land in a place that respects you and your effort. Make > inquiries. > > > > -- Turtle Island Integrative Health 3280 Adeline St. Berkeley CA 94703 510/ 387-8678 TCM Review director www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi Henry. At the NIH Acupuncture conference in Wash., DC, in I think '97, Margaret Naeser delivered a very detailed power point presentation on this topic. She reviewed the clinical results of her and her colleages' work with stroke victims, a large enough population for trial, using acupuncture, scalp acupuncture and low power laser. Comparing results of their methods in several complications and at various stages, with the effectiveness of orthodox treatment, she showed that the OM treatment methods often surpassed WM in recovery, mobility, and quality of life. Almost all parameters(if not all). She then projected the amount of cost savings in her state, were this method to be adopted. Then using national records and statistics, projected the cost savings for the country to be in the many billions anually. She got a standing ovation. I doubt if I was the only one to think that serious research would result because of her effort. However, 12 years later, there is hardly a peep or a chirp of this outside the 'CAM' circles. 'Serious diseases' people don't seem all that interested. The high technology maybe feels threatened, many don't know because it isn't in the media, and, altho there are many open minded MDs (and I hope you find some Henry), the juggernaut of accepted protocol is obviously hard to penetrate. But we still have to hammer away at it. You have to be careful how you advertise, so aligning yourself with a open minded clinic may be a good idea from a few perspectives. The humble yet elegant tools and insights of CM are a great gift for people, and its still evolving. When you see actual results, see it work, you can feel excited and motivated to get involved. Go get 'em tiger! Funny too, as she was making her presentation, Dr. Naeser used one of those pointer lasers. Often the same power and frequency for laser acupuncture. Everyday stuff. Moxibustion was sometimes performed with a concave copper mirror and sunlight. Genius is often simplicity. --- On Mon, 3/23/09, henry_buchtel <henry.buchtel wrote: henry_buchtel <henry.buchtel Re: Stroke Protocol Monday, March 23, 2009, 8:08 AM Hi John and mystir, I'm more wondering if stroke patients are currently aware that there is an acupuncture option... I imagine that it would take quite a bit of effort to get the word out that this option exists, do you think this work has been done already in the US? Regards, Henry , mystir <ykcul_ritsym@ ...> wrote: > > Yes, maybe. There is a need. But be prepared to just offer it, someone or some clinic or hospital department may adopt it as their own, re-label it, after they learn it. In a way that's really ok, the profit motive may slowly spread this knowledge. And you can know in your heart you've contributed to people's quality of life. > You may also land in a place that respects you and your effort. Make inquiries. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 > Harry, > Which conference in SF? > > Sorry, I meant the AAAOM conference in Sacramento. On the stroke Tx Bill mentioned- I learned that technique in Xiamen a couple of years ago, I didnt know that it came from Shi Xue Min. They get a lot of stroke patients at that hospital as well as in Tianjin. In Xiamen, the acupuncture tx was quite frequent, often daily- although I don't recall doing that particular technique on anyone on a daily basis. To tell you the truth- I wondered if that kind of aggressive needling would eventually cause some kind of permanent physical damage. OTOH, most of the patients could hardly move at all anyway.... > > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get the specifics on Xingnao KaiQiao protocol > > for stroke recovery? > > > > > > > " Activating the mind and opening the orifices " is described in Volume II of > > the PMPH book: > > > > Shi Xue-min's Comprehensive Textbook of Acupuncture and Moxibustion. > > > > By Shi Xue-min > > Date Jul 2007 > > Language English > > Format 210 mm x 285 mm, 1228 pages > > ISBN 978-7-117-08699-8/R·8700 > > Price $ 159.95 > > > > I'm sure you can pick up a copy at a deep discount at the next conference > > in SF, ...even though I cant be there this time. > > > > Harry F. Lardner, Projects Editor > > Peoples Medical Publishing House > > Beijing, China > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Skip Do you have the opportunity in your practice to treat much stroke sequelae? I have heard of a docor in Nanjing who uses Dr. Jiao's protocols(sensory lines, motor lines, etc) but she uses electostim rather than the aggressive manual stimulation techniques.And she get's great results. I am interested in possibly going to Nanjing to train with her and am seeking information concerning how to make this happen. Dr. Jiao will be teaching a class in Sacramento in April. I have taken classes with him before and I think he's a great man. And I feel the need to learn and train in an enviroment where that's all that's happening. Turiya Hill, L.Ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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