Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Yes Stephan this is from fairly famous SHL case study book from China. I unfortunately do that have the book here, and haven¡¯t look at the case in maybe years, hence am a bit hesitant to comment too much from memory. Maybe someone out there has a copy and could help us out. I think it is from É˺® ÃûÒ½Ñé°¸¾«Ñ¡. But I remember it talking about the line in the SHL that " strength in the defensive " ¨C and how this applies. Since there are multiple explanations of what this means, this at least ties it to a real case and how it applies clinically. Basically the ¡®strength¡¯ is seen by all the obvious skin manifestations, hence pathogenic factors, it is stagnation. Basically the author¡¯s point is that there is nutritive qi weakness not supporting the defensive yang ¨C this ¡®strength¡¯ of course it not good and blocks the pores, this is why there is no sweat. It is clear there is no internal heat because there is lack of internal signs of heat (thirst, bowels, urine etc). This is a common theme in SHL thinking to decide where the pathogen lies. This brings up one of the issues I have had with some approaches to dermatology. Before I continue this is just my personal observation, and AM not saying I am better than anyone, I am not saying that these other system¡¯s don¡¯t work, just a simple observation, hopefully people don¡¯t get into a tizzy¡ To continue, some people do not spend enough time understanding the internal dynamics and pathomechanism and focus mostly on the way the skin looks. This latter issue is of course important, but sometimes is emphasized over the internal. Just something to think about. But this case shows that understanding the mechanism is most important. Many times formulas (or treatment strategies) that do one thing can be used for opposite problem. For example many times a formula used for diarrhea can be used for constipation and vice versa. Here a formula that normally treats sweating can treat a lack of sweating. One can resolve sweating or promote sweating by harmonizing the nutritive and defensive, this promotes the normal flow of qi in muscle layer and the removal of stagnation which eliminates the ¡®heat signs¡¯. It is a fascinating case that I have contemplated for some time now¡ Hope that helps¡ - Editors comments: In this case there is no sweat, since childhood and there was no history of external contraction of wind-cold. Moreover there was no aversion to cold, floating pulse seen. It is a mistake (?? not to see that This is not to think that this is a wind-cold exterior excess pattern of construction and defensive stagnation(???). It is still " weak construction and strong defensive " are gui zhi patterns. If there is construction qi internal weakness not aiding defensive yang then defensive qi not construction(???) stagnation in the mysterious mansion (sweat pore) giving free reign to the influence of " strength in the defensive [qi] " if there is construction qi internal weakness, blockage of the pores, then you will see no sweat, defensive qi " external strength " stagnation in the interstices and seeing red skin, itching, and when extreme oozing blood and scabbing, dryness, floating rapid pulse are heat signs in 1 school of thought. But, this after all has a different intrinsic quality than excess internal heat with thirst with intake of fluids, red urine, bound stool???, be sure not to bitter cold directly break???, this will (??) damage the construction and . Also one should avoid ma huang opening the interstices, because this will damage the construction and defensive. Only suitable to give gui zhi tang to promote a sweat and resolve the flesh, aid the construction and smooth the defensive. When you deal with the construction and defensive which mutually aid (one another)??? each performs its own functions, then sweat ensues and flesh is uninhibited, heat vexation spontaneously resolves. Honestly gui zhi tang's success in promoting sweat resides in resolving the flesh and harmonizing the ying and defensive.??? base: 270.11.53/2054 - Release 04/11/09 10:51:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Hi Jason You can find most of these case studies at http://www.shanghan.com/bbs/archiver/tid-19940.html Gabe --- On Thu, 4/16/09, wrote: RE: GZT Case study Thursday, April 16, 2009, 6:10 PM Yes Stephan this is from fairly famous SHL case study book from China. I unfortunately do that have the book here, and haven’t look at the case in maybe years, hence am a bit hesitant to comment too much from memory. Maybe someone out there has a copy and could help us out. I think it is from 伤寒 å医验案精选. But I remember it talking about the line in the SHL that " strength in the defensive " – and how this applies. Since there are multiple explanations of what this means, this at least ties it to a real case and how it applies clinically. Basically the ‘strength’ is seen by all the obvious skin manifestations, hence pathogenic factors, it is stagnation. Basically the author’s point is that there is nutritive qi weakness not supporting the defensive yang – this ‘strength’ of course it not good and blocks the pores, this is why there is no sweat. It is clear there is no internal heat because there is lack of internal signs of heat (thirst, bowels, urine etc). This is a common theme in SHL thinking to decide where the pathogen lies. This brings up one of the issues I have had with some approaches to dermatology. Before I continue this is just my personal observation, and AM not saying I am better than anyone, I am not saying that these other system’s don’t work, just a simple observation, hopefully people don’t get into a tizzy… To continue, some people do not spend enough time understanding the internal dynamics and pathomechanism and focus mostly on the way the skin looks. This latter issue is of course important, but sometimes is emphasized over the internal. Just something to think about. But this case shows that understanding the mechanism is most important. Many times formulas (or treatment strategies) that do one thing can be used for opposite problem. For example many times a formula used for diarrhea can be used for constipation and vice versa. Here a formula that normally treats sweating can treat a lack of sweating. One can resolve sweating or promote sweating by harmonizing the nutritive and defensive, this promotes the normal flow of qi in muscle layer and the removal of stagnation which eliminates the ‘heat signs’. It is a fascinating case that I have contemplated for some time now… Hope that helps… - Editors comments: In this case there is no sweat, since childhood and there was no history of external contraction of wind-cold. Moreover there was no aversion to cold, floating pulse seen. It is a mistake (?? not to see that This is not to think that this is a wind-cold exterior excess pattern of construction and defensive stagnation(? ??). It is still " weak construction and strong defensive " are gui zhi patterns. If there is construction qi internal weakness not aiding defensive yang then defensive qi not construction( ???) stagnation in the mysterious mansion (sweat pore) giving free reign to the influence of " strength in the defensive [qi] " if there is construction qi internal weakness, blockage of the pores, then you will see no sweat, defensive qi " external strength " stagnation in the interstices and seeing red skin, itching, and when extreme oozing blood and scabbing, dryness, floating rapid pulse are heat signs in 1 school of thought. But, this after all has a different intrinsic quality than excess internal heat with thirst with intake of fluids, red urine, bound stool???, be sure not to bitter cold directly break???, this will (??) damage the construction and . Also one should avoid ma huang opening the interstices, because this will damage the construction and defensive. Only suitable to give gui zhi tang to promote a sweat and resolve the flesh, aid the construction and smooth the defensive. When you deal with the construction and defensive which mutually aid (one another)??? each performs its own functions, then sweat ensues and flesh is uninhibited, heat vexation spontaneously resolves. Honestly gui zhi tang's success in promoting sweat resides in resolving the flesh and harmonizing the ying and defensive.?? ? base: 270.11.53/2054 - Release 04/11/09 10:51:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Jason, Thank you for the explanation. I studied some similar cases in school when learning the SHL. My teacher, Dr Yin, loved to use the SHL case study text books. I have always been fascinated by the simplicity, but unfortunately have not really been able to see many using this style in clinic. My question is: Great thinking, but can you or anyone else present their own clinical experience proving this system? I completely agree with you that one has to understand the pathomechanism within the internal body that is manifesting on the skin. This is obviously very important and as we all know, skin disease for the most part is a systemic problem and needs internal treatment. (besides many fungal problems that resolve just fine with external Tx). Although I think you are correct in saying that " some people do not spend enough time understanding the internal dynamics and pathomechanism and focus mostly on the way the skin looks " , I would actually say that the majority of practitioners that I talk to do NOT look at the skin enough. They cannot diagnose many problems at the skin level and do not even use skin observation as a tool in their intakes. Most comments I have seen in relation to describing the manifestation of a skin problem are very simple and lack proper descriptive depth. Most practitioners that I have spoken to cannot explain very clearly the difference between many skin problems, nor can they explain the patho-mechanism as to why it is manifesting. For example, thinking that everyone with red cheeks has yin deficiency heat, when in fact they could have Rosacea, Tinea, eczema, seborrheic dermatitis, lupus, or just be plain flushing from jogging up the clinic stairs. All of which manifest very differently, have differing levels of colour, presence of telengectasia, different types of scale - its shape, colour, and how it attaches to the skin. All will have very different patho-mechanisms that will require very different treatments, nourishing yin may or may not be a part of it. By simple educated observation of the skin, a practitioner can gain many facts about the internal environment. But obviously a detailed investigation of all the patients symptoms will be needed and evaluated, beyond just skin observation. Trevor , " " wrote: > > Yes Stephan this is from fairly famous SHL case study book from China. I > unfortunately do that have the book here, and haven¡¯t look at the case in > maybe years, hence am a bit hesitant to comment too much from memory. Maybe > someone out there has a copy and could help us out. I think it is from É˺® > ÃûÒ½Ñé°¸¾«Ñ¡. > > > > But I remember it talking about the line in the SHL that " strength in the > defensive " ¨C and how this applies. Since there are multiple explanations of > what this means, this at least ties it to a real case and how it applies > clinically. Basically the ¡®strength¡¯ is seen by all the obvious skin > manifestations, hence pathogenic factors, it is stagnation. Basically the > author¡¯s point is that there is nutritive qi weakness not supporting the > defensive yang ¨C this ¡®strength¡¯ of course it not good and blocks the > pores, this is why there is no sweat. > > > > It is clear there is no internal heat because there is lack of internal > signs of heat (thirst, bowels, urine etc). This is a common theme in SHL > thinking to decide where the pathogen lies. This brings up one of the issues > I have had with some approaches to dermatology. Before I continue this is > just my personal observation, and AM not saying I am better than anyone, I > am not saying that these other system¡¯s don¡¯t work, just a simple > observation, hopefully people don¡¯t get into a tizzy¡ > > > > To continue, some people do not spend enough time understanding the internal > dynamics and pathomechanism and focus mostly on the way the skin looks. This > latter issue is of course important, but sometimes is emphasized over the > internal. Just something to think about. > > > > But this case shows that understanding the mechanism is most important. Many > times formulas (or treatment strategies) that do one thing can be used for > opposite problem. For example many times a formula used for diarrhea can be > used for constipation and vice versa. Here a formula that normally treats > sweating can treat a lack of sweating. One can resolve sweating or promote > sweating by harmonizing the nutritive and defensive, this promotes the > normal flow of qi in muscle layer and the removal of stagnation which > eliminates the ¡®heat signs¡¯. It is a fascinating case that I have > contemplated for some time now¡ > > > > Hope that helps¡ > > > > - > > > > > > Editors comments: In this case there is no sweat, since childhood and there > was no history of external contraction of wind-cold. Moreover there was no > aversion to cold, floating pulse seen. It is a mistake (?? not to see that > This is not to think that this is a wind-cold exterior excess pattern of > construction and defensive stagnation(???). It is still " weak construction > and strong defensive " are gui zhi patterns. If there is construction qi > internal weakness not aiding defensive yang then defensive qi not > construction(???) stagnation in the mysterious mansion (sweat pore) giving > free reign to the influence of " strength in the defensive [qi] " > > > > if there is construction qi internal weakness, blockage of the pores, then > you will see no sweat, defensive qi " external strength " stagnation in the > interstices and seeing red skin, itching, and when extreme oozing blood and > scabbing, dryness, floating rapid pulse are heat signs in 1 school of > thought. But, this after all has a different intrinsic quality than excess > internal heat with thirst with intake of fluids, red urine, bound stool???, > be sure not to bitter cold directly break???, this will (??) damage the > construction and . Also one should avoid ma huang opening the interstices, > because this will damage the construction and defensive. Only suitable to > give gui zhi tang to promote a sweat and resolve the flesh, aid the > construction and smooth the defensive. When you deal with the construction > and defensive which mutually aid (one another)??? each performs its own > functions, then sweat ensues and flesh is uninhibited, heat vexation > spontaneously resolves. Honestly gui zhi tang's success in promoting sweat > resides in resolving the flesh and harmonizing the ying and defensive.??? > > > > base: 270.11.53/2054 - Release 04/11/09 10:51:00 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hi Gabe, Nice Find! I will check it out when I find some time… Thanks, -Jason On Behalf Of Gabriel Fuentes Friday, April 17, 2009 8:36 AM RE: GZT Case study Hi Jason You can find most of these case studies at http://www.shanghan.com/bbs/archiver/tid-19940.html Gabe --- On Thu, 4/16/09, < <%40Chinese Medicine> > wrote: < <%40Chinese Medicine> > RE: GZT Case study <%40> Thursday, April 16, 2009, 6:10 PM Yes Stephan this is from fairly famous SHL case study book from China. I unfortunately do that have the book here, and haven’t look at the case in maybe years, hence am a bit hesitant to comment too much from memory. Maybe someone out there has a copy and could help us out. I think it is from 伤寒 å医验案精选. But I remember it talking about the line in the SHL that " strength in the defensive " – and how this applies. Since there are multiple explanations of what this means, this at least ties it to a real case and how it applies clinically. Basically the ‘strength’ is seen by all the obvious skin manifestations, hence pathogenic factors, it is stagnation. Basically the author’s point is that there is nutritive qi weakness not supporting the defensive yang – this ‘strength’ of course it not good and blocks the pores, this is why there is no sweat. It is clear there is no internal heat because there is lack of internal signs of heat (thirst, bowels, urine etc). This is a common theme in SHL thinking to decide where the pathogen lies. This brings up one of the issues I have had with some approaches to dermatology. Before I continue this is just my personal observation, and AM not saying I am better than anyone, I am not saying that these other system’s don’t work, just a simple observation, hopefully people don’t get into a tizzy… To continue, some people do not spend enough time understanding the internal dynamics and pathomechanism and focus mostly on the way the skin looks. This latter issue is of course important, but sometimes is emphasized over the internal. Just something to think about. But this case shows that understanding the mechanism is most important. Many times formulas (or treatment strategies) that do one thing can be used for opposite problem. For example many times a formula used for diarrhea can be used for constipation and vice versa. Here a formula that normally treats sweating can treat a lack of sweating. One can resolve sweating or promote sweating by harmonizing the nutritive and defensive, this promotes the normal flow of qi in muscle layer and the removal of stagnation which eliminates the ‘heat signs’. It is a fascinating case that I have contemplated for some time now… Hope that helps… - Editors comments: In this case there is no sweat, since childhood and there was no history of external contraction of wind-cold. Moreover there was no aversion to cold, floating pulse seen. It is a mistake (?? not to see that This is not to think that this is a wind-cold exterior excess pattern of construction and defensive stagnation(? ??). It is still " weak construction and strong defensive " are gui zhi patterns. If there is construction qi internal weakness not aiding defensive yang then defensive qi not construction( ???) stagnation in the mysterious mansion (sweat pore) giving free reign to the influence of " strength in the defensive [qi] " if there is construction qi internal weakness, blockage of the pores, then you will see no sweat, defensive qi " external strength " stagnation in the interstices and seeing red skin, itching, and when extreme oozing blood and scabbing, dryness, floating rapid pulse are heat signs in 1 school of thought. But, this after all has a different intrinsic quality than excess internal heat with thirst with intake of fluids, red urine, bound stool???, be sure not to bitter cold directly break???, this will (??) damage the construction and . Also one should avoid ma huang opening the interstices, because this will damage the construction and defensive. Only suitable to give gui zhi tang to promote a sweat and resolve the flesh, aid the construction and smooth the defensive. When you deal with the construction and defensive which mutually aid (one another)??? each performs its own functions, then sweat ensues and flesh is uninhibited, heat vexation spontaneously resolves. Honestly gui zhi tang's success in promoting sweat resides in resolving the flesh and harmonizing the ying and defensive.?? ? base: 270.11.53/2054 - Release 04/11/09 10:51:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 From what I understand, Mazin has been working on his derm textbook for probably the past ten years. He is such a total perfectionist and does not want to publish anything less the that. Everytime I bring it up with him he declares it should be done in the next 6 months or so..... that has been going on for the past few years and others have told me he has been saying that for a long time before me:-) The text will probably be expensive but well worth it. I imagine it will cover most of the common skin problems with very detailed colour photos, differential diagnosis- ie how to tell lichen planus from psoriasis or lichen simplex, etc. The different manifestations of one particular skin disorder, ie photos of psoriasis due to blood heat with wind, blood heat with fire toxin, damp heat, blood stasis, Yin vacuity, etc. And I am most certain that it will be chalk full of his case studies, which is where the real learning takes place. Mazin tends to theorize only on topics that he himself has gained good clinical success with. Meaning, he lets his work speak for itself. Because of this, his book will be a very valuable resource indeed. Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hi Jason, I think it is not too difficult to understand how Ying/Wei disharmony patho-mechanisms could give rise to the symptoms of this case - especially severe itching with no sweat. What I don't understand, from what you wrote of the intake, is what lead the doctor to know that, in this case, Ying/Wei disharmony was the root disharmony. I know this question may not be answerable given that you don't have the text with you (if you remember what book it was or who the doctor is, maybe I have it and could find it?) Given that the key signs for Gui Zhi Tang pattern are often floating moderate pulse, sweating, aversion to wind etc. it is curious to consider how this doctor knew that the root was a Ying/Wei disharmony. Perhaps it was the body type of the child? Is there something else not mentioned? The details of the intake you gave do not shed any light on this for me. Am I missing something? After a formula works, we can describe the patho-mechanisms to explain why it worked. What may be more helpful is to see how the doctor got to the formula BEFORE he gave it to the patient as opposed to how he explained it after it worked. This would make this case a learning tool. I would love to learn, as I'm sure others would, how to get to the same diagnosis- but as the case stands, I can only see that sometimes Gui Zhi Tang may be effective for pediatric itching but I don't know under what circumstances it would be the right choice. I would guess that this doctor doesn't use Gui Zhi Tang for all cases of pediatric itching - so what made him go there with this case? Any thoughts? I know that the point of the discussion was just to show that small doses of unmodified classic formulas can work exceptionally well for all kinds of problems for which we might normally want to bring out bigger formulas. This case is a good example of that for sure. Yet, when an amazing doctor has an amazing case, the results are, most likely, not mystical. They are because the doctor has a reason for giving the formula. Sometimes the cases don't reveal the actual reason so the results seem mystical and beyond the grasp of us ordinary practitioners. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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论,çµæ´»ç”¨è¯ï¼Œä¸å¿…拘泥。   åä¹ã€ç›®ç›²   å½å±¥æ ·åŒ»æ¡ˆï¼šæŸç”·ï¼Œ20å²ã€‚åˆæ‚£çœ¼ç—…,红肿疼痛。ç»è¥¿åŒ»æ²»ç\ –—肿痛消退,但é€æ¸å¼±è§†å¤±æ˜Žï¼Œè€Œå¤–观åŒç›®åœ†çï¼Œæ¯«æ— å¼‚æ„Ÿï¼Œ\ èº«æ— ä¸é€‚,ç»ä¹…ä¸æ„ˆã€‚查以å‰æ‰€æœæ–¹è¯ï¼Œå‡ä»¥â€œç›®ä¸ºç«æˆ·â€ä½\ œä¾æ®ï¼Œå¤šç³»æ¸…çƒæ³»ç«ä¹‹å‰‚。分æžå…¶åˆç—…时目虽红肿疼痛,尚è\ ƒ½è§†ç‰©å¦‚常。肿痛消失å而ä¸æ˜Žï¼Œæ„ˆæ²»è€Œè§†åŠ›æ„ˆå¼±ï¼Œæ¤å¿…苦寒\ 阴柔过剂,æŸä¼¤ä¸æ°”,以致è¥å«ç´Šä¹±ï¼Œç²¾è¡€ä¸èƒ½ä¸Šè£äºŽç›®ï¼Œæ•\ …目盲ä¸èƒ½è§†ç‰©ï¼Œæ¤åŒ»è¯ä¸å½“,éžç›®ç–—所为。拟以调和è¥å«ä¹‹æ\ ³•ï¼Œå¤„以桂æžæ±¤å…¨æ–¹ï¼š   桂æž9克,白èŠ9克,生姜9克,大枣18克,甘è‰9克,6剂。   æœ3剂åŽï¼Œç›®æœ‰å…‰ï¼Œæ¨¡ç³Šèƒ½è§†ç‰©ã€‚6剂æœå®Œï¼Œè§†ç‰©æ¯”较清楚,å\ ®ˆä¸Šæ–¹ï¼Œå†æœ6剂。åŠæœˆåŽæ¥è¯Šï¼Œè¯¢åŠç›®åŠ›ï¼Œå·²èƒ½çœ‹å—读报,ä¸\ €å¹´æ˜¯éšè®¿ï¼Œæœªå¤å‘。   按è¯ï¼›ã€Šçµæž¢Â·å¤§æƒ‘论》云:“五è„å…腑之精气皆上注于目ã\ €‚æœ¬æ¡ˆç›®ç–¾ï¼Œè¯¯æ²»æ‰€ä¸ºï¼Œå› å±¡ç”¨è‹¦å¯’ï¼ŒæŸä¼¤è„¾èƒƒï¼ŒåŒ–æºä¸å……,\ è¥å«å¤±è°ƒç²¾æ°”ä¸èƒ½ä¸Šæ³¨äºŽç›®ï¼Œæ¸è‡³ç›®è§†ä¸æ˜Žã€‚投桂æžæ±¤åˆ™ä½¿è„\ ¾èƒƒå¾—补,è¥å«èŽ·å……,精气上注,而目æ¸å…‰æ˜Žã€‚ --- On Fri, 4/17/09, swzoe2000 <sweiz wrote: swzoe2000 <sweiz Re: GZT Case study Friday, April 17, 2009, 9:14 AM Hi Jason, I think it is not too difficult to understand how Ying/Wei disharmony patho-mechanisms could give rise to the symptoms of this case - especially severe itching with no sweat. What I don't understand, from what you wrote of the intake, is what lead the doctor to know that, in this case, Ying/Wei disharmony was the root disharmony. I know this question may not be answerable given that you don't have the text with you (if you remember what book it was or who the doctor is, maybe I have it and could find it?) Given that the key signs for Gui Zhi Tang pattern are often floating moderate pulse, sweating, aversion to wind etc. it is curious to consider how this doctor knew that the root was a Ying/Wei disharmony. Perhaps it was the body type of the child? Is there something else not mentioned? The details of the intake you gave do not shed any light on this for me. Am I missing something? After a formula works, we can describe the patho-mechanisms to explain why it worked. What may be more helpful is to see how the doctor got to the formula BEFORE he gave it to the patient as opposed to how he explained it after it worked. This would make this case a learning tool. I would love to learn, as I'm sure others would, how to get to the same diagnosis- but as the case stands, I can only see that sometimes Gui Zhi Tang may be effective for pediatric itching but I don't know under what circumstances it would be the right choice. I would guess that this doctor doesn't use Gui Zhi Tang for all cases of pediatric itching - so what made him go there with this case? Any thoughts? I know that the point of the discussion was just to show that small doses of unmodified classic formulas can work exceptionally well for all kinds of problems for which we might normally want to bring out bigger formulas. This case is a good example of that for sure. Yet, when an amazing doctor has an amazing case, the results are, most likely, not mystical. They are because the doctor has a reason for giving the formula. Sometimes the cases don't reveal the actual reason so the results seem mystical and beyond the grasp of us ordinary practitioners. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Even in the Beijing Dermatology department Mazin was a bit of a legend and this was several years ago. The doctors there told me about this Westerner (!) who spent hours and hours in the Nanjing (?) library doing research. The final complement was that Chinese doctors would ask his advice. Having spent some time studying the subject and having worked with some colleagues specializing in it I look forward to seeing what he has put together. Doug , " Trevor Erikson " <trevor_erikson wrote: > > From what I understand, Mazin has been working on his derm textbook for probably the past ten years. He is such a total perfectionist and does not want to publish anything less the that. Everytime I bring it up with him he declares it should be done in the next 6 months or so..... that has been going on for the past few years and others have told me he has been saying that for a long time before me:-) > > The text will probably be expensive but well worth it. I imagine it will cover most of the common skin problems with very detailed colour photos, differential diagnosis- ie how to tell lichen planus from psoriasis or lichen simplex, etc. The different manifestations of one particular skin disorder, ie photos of psoriasis due to blood heat with wind, blood heat with fire toxin, damp heat, blood stasis, Yin vacuity, etc. And I am most certain that it will be chalk full of his case studies, which is where the real learning takes place. > > Mazin tends to theorize only on topics that he himself has gained good clinical success with. Meaning, he lets his work speak for itself. Because of this, his book will be a very valuable resource indeed. > > Trevor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hi Jason Thanks for the addition of the editor’s comments! – nice touch Yeah, the way that I was taught was that this kind of manifestation was akin to yang deficiency being too weak to open the pores so the condition becomes lodged in the interstices. But in that situation, I learned that it was due to a lack of shaoyin warmth so that only the growing of yang in Nature during summer could bring this problem to the surface and thus the rash in summer…but the treatment had to warm shaoyin with something like fuzi added to the guizhi tang. Was it that kids are so yang that, at 9 years, guizhi tang alone was enough? This would be similar to the thinking of the author of Liuwei Dihuang Wan – Qian Yi, who wrote: " Derived from Zhongjing's original intention of yang (engendering), but for children with abundant yang qi, I created this pill by eliminating Guizhi and Fuzi, which is now a specific medicinal for kidney supplementation for children. " If so, we have to chalk it up to the doctor’s experience – even though the signs and symptoms that would allow us to see this aren’t presented in the case Still, it’s interesting and a great example of the thinking of Shang Han Lun style practitioners Thanks Stephen Woodley LAc -- www.shanghanlunseminars.com -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sounds like Mazin. He visits China quite regularly and usually sits in with the different Docs there. He graduated from the University in Nanjing back in the early 80's. Just to let everyone know, Mazin will be lecturing in North America in the fall. It will be a great opportunity, as he rarely comes here. (I had to fly to London England many times to do my studies with him). I believe he is in Seattle and Vancouver, teaching different topics each place. I plan on being at both. The link for the Vancouver lecture is here: http://www.prodseminars.net/store/allergic-and-autoimmune-diseases-3-day-seminar Trevor , " " wrote: > > Even in the Beijing Dermatology department Mazin was a bit of a legend and this was several years ago. The doctors there told me about this Westerner (!) who spent hours and hours in the Nanjing (?) library doing research. The final complement was that Chinese doctors would ask his advice. > Having spent some time studying the subject and having worked with some colleagues specializing in it I look forward to seeing what he has put together. > Doug > > > > , " Trevor Erikson " <trevor_erikson@> wrote: > > > > From what I understand, Mazin has been working on his derm textbook for probably the past ten years. He is such a total perfectionist and does not want to publish anything less the that. Everytime I bring it up with him he declares it should be done in the next 6 months or so..... that has been going on for the past few years and others have told me he has been saying that for a long time before me:-) > > > > The text will probably be expensive but well worth it. I imagine it will cover most of the common skin problems with very detailed colour photos, differential diagnosis- ie how to tell lichen planus from psoriasis or lichen simplex, etc. The different manifestations of one particular skin disorder, ie photos of psoriasis due to blood heat with wind, blood heat with fire toxin, damp heat, blood stasis, Yin vacuity, etc. And I am most certain that it will be chalk full of his case studies, which is where the real learning takes place. > > > > Mazin tends to theorize only on topics that he himself has gained good clinical success with. Meaning, he lets his work speak for itself. Because of this, his book will be a very valuable resource indeed. > > > > Trevor > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thanks Gabe, The Chinese came out all gobly gook in the message but the link worked and I found the case. What stands out to me about the case notes is the fact that the tongue was pale red. For something as mean and red and even bloody as this boy's skin irritation, if it was true heat, would not the tongue be red? The floating pulse put the issue on the surface. I wonder if this, maybe along with the body type of the boy, were the keys that pointed to Gui Zhi Tang. It would make sense to me. With the pale red tongue, he knew that the heat was heat due to stagnation as opposed to true heat. Just thoughts. Thanks for the link! Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Trevor, Do you have information or a link for the Seattle dates? -Jason On Behalf Of Trevor Erikson Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:03 AM Re: GZT Case study Sounds like Mazin. He visits China quite regularly and usually sits in with the different Docs there. He graduated from the University in Nanjing back in the early 80's. Just to let everyone know, Mazin will be lecturing in North America in the fall. It will be a great opportunity, as he rarely comes here. (I had to fly to London England many times to do my studies with him). I believe he is in Seattle and Vancouver, teaching different topics each place. I plan on being at both. The link for the Vancouver lecture is here: http://www.prodseminars.net/store/allergic-and-autoimmune-diseases-3-day-sem inar Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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