Prescription for swine flu (North America Flu2009)

[Guest guest]

1 Only humans is affected, no report of swine death, should not be called swine

flu;

 

2 It resembles to H1N1 flu (mutated from it); but no matters if it is H5N1 bird

flu, or any other combinations, Chinese medicine has predominately advantages

treating virus;

 

3 This epedimic outbreak in Mexico City is very similar to the outbreak of SARS

in Hong Kong 2003. Two hundred plus were dead due to improper/delayed treatment.

Before they located the source of disease, infected patients were treated with

cortisone and antibiotic, some survivors still suffer the consequences of

prolonged dosage of cortisones. After segregations were practised, less and less

people were infected and the epedimic was not spreading and under control.

However, it is the Chinese medicine that helped to cure the survivors. For the

first time, Chinese medicine doctors (2 from Mainland China) were consulted and

made treatment in the public hospitals. No casualties were reported since the

introduction of Chinese medicine.

 

4 Epedimics can be properly controlled by Chinese medicine, especially the

school and formulas of warm disease.

 

5 In this case, the virus is not particular harsh so Tamiflu can control it. In

accordance to the symptoms reported from the media in Mexico and States, they

are headache, heat effusion, generalized pain,fatigue, etc. Although we do not

have the chance to meet any patients in face, hospitals in Guangdong Province,

China has offered free decoction to general public as preventive treatment. This

is exactly what Jin Gui Yao Lue preaches, treating disease before it arises.

 

6 I have been to Mexico and really like the people there, they are really

friendly and I know some amigos there. I really want to help and recommend the

following prescriptions to TCM practitioners in Mexico and States and other part

of the world (for your references).

 

Gan cao(licorice), jin yin hua(lonicerae), da qing ye (isatis leaf), ge gen

(pueraria), yi yi ren (coix), lian qiao(forsythia),ban lan gen(isatis root) all

30g; one can use a large pot to decoct for dozens of patients.

 

My best wishes to the people in Mexico and those are infected wherever you are.

Feel free to contact me if I can be more helpful.

I hope Chinese medicine profession can take this opportunity to contribute more

to the world of medical profession.

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming

PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong)

[Guest guest]

Very important points. Dr. Sung.

 

Rey Tiquia has translated several articles on pattern differentiation

and treatment of the SARS epidemic. Try googling them. Chinese

medicine has tremendous resources for such epidemics, but only if we

use the tools as they were designed, not as a 'one size fits all'

approach.

 

 

On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:34 AM, sxm2649 wrote:

 

>

>

> 1 Only humans is affected, no report of swine death, should not be

> called swine flu;

>

> 2 It resembles to H1N1 flu (mutated from it); but no matters if it

> is H5N1 bird flu, or any other combinations, Chinese medicine has

> predominately advantages treating virus;

>

> 3 This epedimic outbreak in Mexico City is very similar to the

> outbreak of SARS in Hong Kong 2003. Two hundred plus were dead due

> to improper/delayed treatment. Before they located the source of

> disease, infected patients were treated with cortisone and

> antibiotic, some survivors still suffer the consequences of

> prolonged dosage of cortisones. After segregations were practised,

> less and less people were infected and the epedimic was not

> spreading and under control. However, it is the Chinese medicine

> that helped to cure the survivors. For the first time, Chinese

> medicine doctors (2 from Mainland China) were consulted and made

> treatment in the public hospitals. No casualties were reported since

> the introduction of Chinese medicine.

>

> 4 Epedimics can be properly controlled by Chinese medicine,

> especially the school and formulas of warm disease.

>

> 5 In this case, the virus is not particular harsh so Tamiflu can

> control it. In accordance to the symptoms reported from the media in

> Mexico and States, they are headache, heat effusion, generalized

> pain,fatigue, etc. Although we do not have the chance to meet any

> patients in face, hospitals in Guangdong Province, China has offered

> free decoction to general public as preventive treatment. This is

> exactly what Jin Gui Yao Lue preaches, treating disease before it

> arises.

>

> 6 I have been to Mexico and really like the people there, they are

> really friendly and I know some amigos there. I really want to help

> and recommend the following prescriptions to TCM practitioners in

> Mexico and States and other part of the world (for your references).

>

> Gan cao(licorice), jin yin hua(lonicerae), da qing ye (isatis leaf),

> ge gen (pueraria), yi yi ren (coix), lian qiao(forsythia),ban lan

> gen(isatis root) all 30g; one can use a large pot to decoct for

> dozens of patients.

>

> My best wishes to the people in Mexico and those are infected

> wherever you are. Feel free to contact me if I can be more helpful.

> I hope Chinese medicine profession can take this opportunity to

> contribute more to the world of medical profession.

>

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

> PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong)

>

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

To Mr Rosenberg and all,

 

I cannot agree with you more about the importance of pattern identification,

which is emphasized throughout the book of Jin Gui Yao Lue. As a matter of fact,

the whole protocol of controlling epidemics rests upon these two principles:

treating disease before it arises (segregation) and pattern identifications.

 

As what I discussed is about the prevention of the spread of this H1N1 epidemics

prevailing in Mexico City and scarcely spread in States, the mentioned

ingredients should help to prevent the contraction of this flu by frontline

paramedic and medical professionals. For symptoms associated with other stages

require modifications by local TCM doctors. They may either address more upon

the damp evil or qi and yin deficiency aspects. As you fellow TCM doctors are in

proximity of Mexico, especially those in California next to the border are best

qualified to supply formulas according to the principle of pattern

identification.

 

As far as the articles you suggest, I took a glimpse at the link posted by

Andrea Beth, they are all the standard teachings of Warm Disease (as a subject

curriculum). All these formulas are standard heat-draining formulas such as

White-Tiger Decoction or damp-dispelling formulas. It is excellent if more TCM

schools can include them in the curriculum. With this knowledge in hands, I am

sure all TCM doctors in States or other South American neighbors are better

equipped in the combat with all kinds of epidemics.

 

Since we discuss warm disease, it rings the bell that some interesting findings

about pattern identification in epidemics in the history of China. In 1956-57,

epidemic Japanese encephalitis was spread in Chengdu, Sichuan Province and a

fraction of a million were dead. A famous local TCM doctor, PU, Fuzhou (he had

two case study books published and was transferred to Beijing as the doctor for

the highest officials afterwards) applied White Tiger Decoction and controlled

the epidemic. Next year in the north of China, a few hundred miles from Beijing,

there was an outbreak of epidemic. 90% patients treated with the same formula

died. Dr PU was consulted and after investigations, the etiology was closely

associated with damp evil, a base formula of san ren tang (Three Kernels

Decoction) was prescribed and worked.

 

My point is, the prevailing climate in Mexico should be considered when making

formulas for the epidemic. Some local exchange students returning from Mexico

City recently mentioned that it is really hot and air is polluted there. These

may account for the outbreak of epidemic there. The solstice of this year and

last year should be taken into considerations.

 

My 2 cents,

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming

Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong)

[Guest guest]

Dr. Sung,

It is absolutely essential to consider the climate, as you point

out, in terms of the development of epidemic evils. In addition, the

season in which the epidemic appears. Seasonally, it appears we may

be dealing with a spring warmth epidemic with latent evil heat, but I

haven't yet seen a detailed description of the symptoms (and no one

has come forth with tongue and pulse images at this point).

 

 

On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:01 PM, sxm2649 wrote:

 

>

>

> To Mr Rosenberg and all,

>

> I cannot agree with you more about the importance of pattern

> identification, which is emphasized throughout the book of Jin Gui

> Yao Lue. As a matter of fact, the whole protocol of controlling

> epidemics rests upon these two principles: treating disease before

> it arises (segregation) and pattern identifications.

>

> As what I discussed is about the prevention of the spread of this

> H1N1 epidemics prevailing in Mexico City and scarcely spread in

> States, the mentioned ingredients should help to prevent the

> contraction of this flu by frontline paramedic and medical

> professionals. For symptoms associated with other stages require

> modifications by local TCM doctors. They may either address more

> upon the damp evil or qi and yin deficiency aspects. As you fellow

> TCM doctors are in proximity of Mexico, especially those in

> California next to the border are best qualified to supply formulas

> according to the principle of pattern identification.

>

> As far as the articles you suggest, I took a glimpse at the link

> posted by Andrea Beth, they are all the standard teachings of Warm

> Disease (as a subject curriculum). All these formulas are standard

> heat-draining formulas such as White-Tiger Decoction or damp-

> dispelling formulas. It is excellent if more TCM schools can include

> them in the curriculum. With this knowledge in hands, I am sure all

> TCM doctors in States or other South American neighbors are better

> equipped in the combat with all kinds of epidemics.

>

> Since we discuss warm disease, it rings the bell that some

> interesting findings about pattern identification in epidemics in

> the history of China. In 1956-57, epidemic Japanese encephalitis was

> spread in Chengdu, Sichuan Province and a fraction of a million were

> dead. A famous local TCM doctor, PU, Fuzhou (he had two case study

> books published and was transferred to Beijing as the doctor for the

> highest officials afterwards) applied White Tiger Decoction and

> controlled the epidemic. Next year in the north of China, a few

> hundred miles from Beijing, there was an outbreak of epidemic. 90%

> patients treated with the same formula died. Dr PU was consulted and

> after investigations, the etiology was closely associated with damp

> evil, a base formula of san ren tang (Three Kernels Decoction) was

> prescribed and worked.

>

> My point is, the prevailing climate in Mexico should be considered

> when making formulas for the epidemic. Some local exchange students

> returning from Mexico City recently mentioned that it is really hot

> and air is polluted there. These may account for the outbreak of

> epidemic there. The solstice of this year and last year should be

> taken into considerations.

>

> My 2 cents,

>

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

> Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong)

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 I have looked into this 1st wwar pandemic, and I've seen the pros and cons, but

I am convinced it was a dirty overcrowded swine farm, hit by unseasonal cold

showers, and the pigs got sick, and a farmboy sent to europe was the vector. So,

yes, climacteric influences played a big part. Back then, there was little

access to herbs. Now we Know better. We could handle simple things like that, no

problem. Ebola yes, better than the virus hunters of the cdc.  

,.

--- On Fri, 5/1/09, <zrosenbe wrote:

 

<zrosenbe

Re: Re: Prescription for swine flu (North America Flu2009)

 

Friday, May 1, 2009, 1:51 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Sung,

 

It is absolutely essential to consider the climate, as you point

 

out, in terms of the development of epidemic evils. In addition, the

 

season in which the epidemic appears. Seasonally, it appears we may

 

be dealing with a spring warmth epidemic with latent evil heat, but I

 

haven't yet seen a detailed description of the symptoms (and no one

 

has come forth with tongue and pulse images at this point).

 

 

 

 

 

On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:01 PM, sxm2649 wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

>

 

> To Mr Rosenberg and all,

 

>

 

> I cannot agree with you more about the importance of pattern

 

> identification, which is emphasized throughout the book of Jin Gui

 

> Yao Lue. As a matter of fact, the whole protocol of controlling

 

> epidemics rests upon these two principles: treating disease before

 

> it arises (segregation) and pattern identifications.

 

>

 

> As what I discussed is about the prevention of the spread of this

 

> H1N1 epidemics prevailing in Mexico City and scarcely spread in

 

> States, the mentioned ingredients should help to prevent the

 

> contraction of this flu by frontline paramedic and medical

 

> professionals. For symptoms associated with other stages require

 

> modifications by local TCM doctors. They may either address more

 

> upon the damp evil or qi and yin deficiency aspects. As you fellow

 

> TCM doctors are in proximity of Mexico, especially those in

 

> California next to the border are best qualified to supply formulas

 

> according to the principle of pattern identification.

 

>

 

> As far as the articles you suggest, I took a glimpse at the link

 

> posted by Andrea Beth, they are all the standard teachings of Warm

 

> Disease (as a subject curriculum). All these formulas are standard

 

> heat-draining formulas such as White-Tiger Decoction or damp-

 

> dispelling formulas. It is excellent if more TCM schools can include

 

> them in the curriculum. With this knowledge in hands, I am sure all

 

> TCM doctors in States or other South American neighbors are better

 

> equipped in the combat with all kinds of epidemics.

 

>

 

> Since we discuss warm disease, it rings the bell that some

 

> interesting findings about pattern identification in epidemics in

 

> the history of China. In 1956-57, epidemic Japanese encephalitis was

 

> spread in Chengdu, Sichuan Province and a fraction of a million were

 

> dead. A famous local TCM doctor, PU, Fuzhou (he had two case study

 

> books published and was transferred to Beijing as the doctor for the

 

> highest officials afterwards) applied White Tiger Decoction and

 

> controlled the epidemic. Next year in the north of China, a few

 

> hundred miles from Beijing, there was an outbreak of epidemic. 90%

 

> patients treated with the same formula died. Dr PU was consulted and

 

> after investigations, the etiology was closely associated with damp

 

> evil, a base formula of san ren tang (Three Kernels Decoction) was

 

> prescribed and worked.

 

>

 

> My point is, the prevailing climate in Mexico should be considered

 

> when making formulas for the epidemic. Some local exchange students

 

> returning from Mexico City recently mentioned that it is really hot

 

> and air is polluted there. These may account for the outbreak of

 

> epidemic there. The solstice of this year and last year should be

 

> taken into considerations.

 

>

 

> My 2 cents,

 

>

 

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

 

> Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong)

 

>

 

>

 

 

 

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

 

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

 

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Z'ev,

 

 

 

I am curious why you think this swine flu is presenting as a lurking heat

pathogen?

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of

Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:52 PM

 

Re: Re: Prescription for swine flu (North America Flu2009)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Sung,

It is absolutely essential to consider the climate, as you point

out, in terms of the development of epidemic evils. In addition, the

season in which the epidemic appears. Seasonally, it appears we may

be dealing with a spring warmth epidemic with latent evil heat, but I

haven't yet seen a detailed description of the symptoms (and no one

has come forth with tongue and pulse images at this point).

 

 

On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:01 PM, sxm2649 wrote:

 

>

>

> To Mr Rosenberg and all,

>

> I cannot agree with you more about the importance of pattern

> identification, which is emphasized throughout the book of Jin Gui

> Yao Lue. As a matter of fact, the whole protocol of controlling

> epidemics rests upon these two principles: treating disease before

> it arises (segregation) and pattern identifications.

>

> As what I discussed is about the prevention of the spread of this

> H1N1 epidemics prevailing in Mexico City and scarcely spread in

> States, the mentioned ingredients should help to prevent the

> contraction of this flu by frontline paramedic and medical

> professionals. For symptoms associated with other stages require

> modifications by local TCM doctors. They may either address more

> upon the damp evil or qi and yin deficiency aspects. As you fellow

> TCM doctors are in proximity of Mexico, especially those in

> California next to the border are best qualified to supply formulas

> according to the principle of pattern identification.

>

> As far as the articles you suggest, I took a glimpse at the link

> posted by Andrea Beth, they are all the standard teachings of Warm

> Disease (as a subject curriculum). All these formulas are standard

> heat-draining formulas such as White-Tiger Decoction or damp-

> dispelling formulas. It is excellent if more TCM schools can include

> them in the curriculum. With this knowledge in hands, I am sure all

> TCM doctors in States or other South American neighbors are better

> equipped in the combat with all kinds of epidemics.

>

> Since we discuss warm disease, it rings the bell that some

> interesting findings about pattern identification in epidemics in

> the history of China. In 1956-57, epidemic Japanese encephalitis was

> spread in Chengdu, Sichuan Province and a fraction of a million were

> dead. A famous local TCM doctor, PU, Fuzhou (he had two case study

> books published and was transferred to Beijing as the doctor for the

> highest officials afterwards) applied White Tiger Decoction and

> controlled the epidemic. Next year in the north of China, a few

> hundred miles from Beijing, there was an outbreak of epidemic. 90%

> patients treated with the same formula died. Dr PU was consulted and

> after investigations, the etiology was closely associated with damp

> evil, a base formula of san ren tang (Three Kernels Decoction) was

> prescribed and worked.

>

> My point is, the prevailing climate in Mexico should be considered

> when making formulas for the epidemic. Some local exchange students

> returning from Mexico City recently mentioned that it is really hot

> and air is polluted there. These may account for the outbreak of

> epidemic there. The solstice of this year and last year should be

> taken into considerations.

>

> My 2 cents,

>

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

> Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong)

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

[Guest guest]

A few points. There was still an herbal tradition in America and

Europe at the time, and if you examine the teachings of the Eclectic

herbalists (as well as, of course, homeopathy) you'll find some

interesting influenza remedies. Complicating factors today including

the vast, mass mega-farms, miles of pigs, all raised with antibiotics

and steroids. They are ideal breeding grounds for resistant,

recombinant viral strains.

 

 

On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:14 PM, mystir wrote:

 

> I have looked into this 1st wwar pandemic, and I've seen the pros

> and cons, but I am convinced it was a dirty overcrowded swine farm,

> hit by unseasonal cold showers, and the pigs got sick, and a farmboy

> sent to europe was the vector. So, yes, climacteric influences

> played a big part. Back then, there was little access to herbs. Now

> we Know better. We could handle simple things like that, no problem.

> Ebola yes, better than the virus hunters of the cdc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jason,

Only conjecture, thinking out loud. I cannot say definitively

without detailed cases and symptoms (as I mentioned in my post). If

there were signs of internal heat, such as stubborn fever, dark yellow

urine, severe body aches, I might consider this possibility.

 

 

On May 1, 2009, at 6:24 AM, wrote:

 

>

>

> Z'ev,

>

> I am curious why you think this swine flu is presenting as a lurking

> heat

> pathogen?

>

> -Jason

>

>

> On Behalf Of Z'ev

> Rosenberg

> Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:52 PM

>

> Re: Re: Prescription for swine flu (North America

> Flu2009)

>

> Dr. Sung,

> It is absolutely essential to consider the climate, as you point

> out, in terms of the development of epidemic evils. In addition, the

> season in which the epidemic appears. Seasonally, it appears we may

> be dealing with a spring warmth epidemic with latent evil heat, but I

> haven't yet seen a detailed description of the symptoms (and no one

> has come forth with tongue and pulse images at this point).

>

>

> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:01 PM, sxm2649 wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > To Mr Rosenberg and all,

> >

> > I cannot agree with you more about the importance of pattern

> > identification, which is emphasized throughout the book of Jin Gui

> > Yao Lue. As a matter of fact, the whole protocol of controlling

> > epidemics rests upon these two principles: treating disease before

> > it arises (segregation) and pattern identifications.

> >

> > As what I discussed is about the prevention of the spread of this

> > H1N1 epidemics prevailing in Mexico City and scarcely spread in

> > States, the mentioned ingredients should help to prevent the

> > contraction of this flu by frontline paramedic and medical

> > professionals. For symptoms associated with other stages require

> > modifications by local TCM doctors. They may either address more

> > upon the damp evil or qi and yin deficiency aspects. As you fellow

> > TCM doctors are in proximity of Mexico, especially those in

> > California next to the border are best qualified to supply formulas

> > according to the principle of pattern identification.

> >

> > As far as the articles you suggest, I took a glimpse at the link

> > posted by Andrea Beth, they are all the standard teachings of Warm

> > Disease (as a subject curriculum). All these formulas are standard

> > heat-draining formulas such as White-Tiger Decoction or damp-

> > dispelling formulas. It is excellent if more TCM schools can include

> > them in the curriculum. With this knowledge in hands, I am sure all

> > TCM doctors in States or other South American neighbors are better

> > equipped in the combat with all kinds of epidemics.

> >

> > Since we discuss warm disease, it rings the bell that some

> > interesting findings about pattern identification in epidemics in

> > the history of China. In 1956-57, epidemic Japanese encephalitis was

> > spread in Chengdu, Sichuan Province and a fraction of a million were

> > dead. A famous local TCM doctor, PU, Fuzhou (he had two case study

> > books published and was transferred to Beijing as the doctor for the

> > highest officials afterwards) applied White Tiger Decoction and

> > controlled the epidemic. Next year in the north of China, a few

> > hundred miles from Beijing, there was an outbreak of epidemic. 90%

> > patients treated with the same formula died. Dr PU was consulted and

> > after investigations, the etiology was closely associated with damp

> > evil, a base formula of san ren tang (Three Kernels Decoction) was

> > prescribed and worked.

> >

> > My point is, the prevailing climate in Mexico should be considered

> > when making formulas for the epidemic. Some local exchange students

> > returning from Mexico City recently mentioned that it is really hot

> > and air is polluted there. These may account for the outbreak of

> > epidemic there. The solstice of this year and last year should be

> > taken into considerations.

> >

> > My 2 cents,

> >

> > SUNG, Yuk-ming

> > Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong)

> >

> >

>

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a treatise on the pandemic of the WW1 era pandemic and impending

pandemics from the recently deceased and particularly erudite Michael Moore that

addresses what Z'ev is talking about. For those of you not familiar with MM,

this bit really encompasses his energy, intelligence, and humor.

 

For those who would like more info about the Eclectic's

-www.henriettesherbal.com - check out King's American Dispensatory

 

www.SWSBM.com is MM's sight and has quite a bit of digitized material from

various American herbal groups of yesteryear.

 

 

 

Goldenseal is energetically inappropriate. Several of the alkaloids

>(hydrastine particularly) are excreted in the mucus, stimulating the

>mucosa

>in the process. In the early stages of any respiratory viral infection

>(avian flu is simply one more) the mucosa are hot and irritated...don't

>need goldenseal. It is of value on the way down an infection IF the

>mucosa

>becomes congested, edemic and sluggish. Barberry/Oregon Grape does

>not have

>this mucosal effect, even though all of them have some alkaloids in

>common.

>Goldthread is sort of in the middle.

>

>It is my opinion that Echinacea is ALWAYS of use in respiratory viruses,

>including the " avian flu " (a relative of the original influenza - with

>perhaps a dash of pork - or is it the other way around?)

>

>When influenza hit Nevada and New Mexico (1920-22) it wiped out whole

>villages of tough Shoshone and New Mexican mountain folks. After some

>experimenting, in Nevada and eastern Oregon, the herb of choice, from

>Oregan Trailers to Jack Mormons to Shoshone, was Leptotaenia Root (Now

>called Lomatium dissectum), and Great Basin pharmacies widely sold the

>tincture and Indians and settlers and ranchers and cowbows passed the

>dried

>root around. The plant was used in the dry form. The fresh is a bit more

>active, but, in really reactive, sudden onset infections, the fresh

>preparations can cause hives. (ask Henriette!)

>

>In Northern New Mexico and the San Luis Valley the New Mexican Spanish

>tried Osha (Ligusticum porteri) and Osha del Campo (Ligusticum

>officinale)

>and Sagebrush...to little effect. The only agreement seemed to be that

>Altamisa worked best (Artemisia franserioides, Mountain Mugwort, a

>native

>4-corners high mountain plant, with a distribution map and a couple of

>pictures on my website)

>

>Those are the only two plants from that time in my area (the

>southwestern

>U.S.) that were of some substantive value in the Influenza Epidemic.

>Both

>the Shoshone and the New Mexican Spanish had rich herbal traditions

>to draw

>from experimentally.

>

>The Tarahumara of Northern Mexico would be another resource, as will

>as the

>herberas in Oaxaca and Guerrero states in Mexico, but I can fine no

>documentation on how THEY dealt with that scourge. All three have

>herb-rich

>traditions...they are the ones that experimented with their existing

>herbs

>in the 1960s and 70s and came up with some very effective diabetes

>remedies

>when faced with an explosion of this new disease, Type II diabetes. I'm

>sure they found some local answers to the Influenza epidemic.

>

>And let's not confuse Influenza with " the flu " . Ever since the end of

>WWI

>folks get some bad respiratory virus and call it the flu. I had the

>Asian

>flu in 1971. It took me three weeks before I even remembered what my

>toes

>for good for...three more days to be able to count them. I have,

>otherwise,

>been a sthenic individual that gets through most everything in a

>couple of

>operatic days.

>

>Slow, aggressive and evil, influenza that has gained virulence in an

>epidemic or pandemic has TEETH! BTW: Echinacea helped a lot.

>

>---snip---

>

>What I'm getting at is, we need to research what was done

>by savy traditionals back in the first epidemic...it lasted 4-5 years

>and is

>supposed to have gone around the world 3 times...that's a lot of time

>for a

>skillful Argentinian medica to find out what, of her materia medica,

>worked. Amish? Shaker? Appalachian healers (before TVA)? Cherokee?

>Tibetan?

>All the traditional folks that were herb-rich, with clever lay

>professionals trying to solve what amounted to a life or death

>circumstance, as they have in recent years with Type-II Diabetes.

>

>To me, these should be primary resources. That may take digging...my

>first

>discovery of Lomatium (Leptotaenia) and its use in the Great Epidemic

>was

>reading a hand-written medicine book by one of the later Oregon

>homesteaders in some little museum along the Oregon Trail. One of the

>later

>entries dealt with this Indian Herb that everyone was trading,

>because it

>kept a lot more folks alive that caught the flu. The writer called it

>Biscuit Root, and later on came up with the latin name because a local

>pharmacist had started to sell it and had it properly labeled. Once

>I had

>the name, I then found dozens of references to the plant. I hadn't

>heard of

>it before.

>

>Influenza didn't hit everywhere: where was it the worst, what

>traditionalists with strong herbal knowledge lived in those areas,

>what is

>known of their succesful treatments.

>

>This may be difficult, what with White Man's Burden and Empire going

>down

>in flames in Europe; Caucasian sensibilities were always dominant in

>ethnobotany of the time...and Caucasians were killing themselves and

>dying

>of the flu all at the same time.

>

>If I can come up with a couple of known remedies in my corner of the

>world

>(through casual but constant observation...having seen old mountain

>graveyards with 30% of all the legable headstones dated 1922-23 which

>prompted me to start asking questions and checking out old newspapers

>and

>diaries in the museum), there MUST be others out there.

>

>Yes, we have science, vaccinations and antivirals, but we all know

>more is

>needed. The vaccinations will always be late, the antivirals are already

>starting to work less effectively, and the U.S. government seems to be

>slowly grinding to a disfunctional wheeze. You KNOW it will be the same

>story every time. The once sometimes breathtaking ability of

>Americans to

>adapt to disaster has been reduced to " only in my district, and only

>if my

>family can get some porky jobs " . The Spark, both callous and

>humanistic at

>the same time, is fading in the U.S., being replaced by lumpen,

>self-serving political/corporate-driven agencies. (don't get me

>STARTED).

>

>SO: Who knows some of this stuff? Who knows where to dig it out?

>There can

>be no substitute for real-time experience, under the gun, and folks back

>then REALLY had their ass in a sling. Between 40 and 100 million

>deaths, in

>a world with a third the population as present, with ONLY tramp steamers

>and a World War to spread it around.

>

>We should attempt to gather this together. I'm afraid that energetics

>don't

>help much when an elephant falls out of a sprung bay door in an airplane

>and falls on your head. It would be good to assemble what we can find

>and

>disseminate it.

>

>It may be needed.

>

>

>Michael

 

 

 

 

zrosenbe

Fri, 1 May 2009 07:50:49 -0700

Re: Re: Prescription for swine flu (North America Flu2009)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few points. There was still an herbal tradition in America and

Europe at the time, and if you examine the teachings of the Eclectic

herbalists (as well as, of course, homeopathy) you'll find some

interesting influenza remedies. Complicating factors today including

the vast, mass mega-farms, miles of pigs, all raised with antibiotics

and steroids. They are ideal breeding grounds for resistant,

recombinant viral strains.

 

 

On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:14 PM, mystir wrote:

 

> I have looked into this 1st wwar pandemic, and I've seen the pros

> and cons, but I am convinced it was a dirty overcrowded swine farm,

> hit by unseasonal cold showers, and the pigs got sick, and a farmboy

> sent to europe was the vector. So, yes, climacteric influences

> played a big part. Back then, there was little access to herbs. Now

> we Know better. We could handle simple things like that, no problem.

> Ebola yes, better than the virus hunters of the cdc.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The principle of pattern discrimination and customized treatments for

patients are certainly very important and should be adhered to

whenever circumstances allow.

 

However, in a situation where hundreds, maybe thousands or even ten of

thousands of sick people are at the door needing help, perhaps more

general treatments are in order.

 

Sometimes a fairly effective treatment for many people is better than

the most excellent treatments for a few.

 

--

Duncan E

 

 

" We are here to help each other get though this thing, whatever it is. "

-Mark Vonnegut

[Guest guest]

how many of us are betting on thousands??

just wondering.

From what I'm hearing, we'll have to see what happens to the virus

when it gets to South America at the start now of their flu season.

That might give a hint of what to expect from it for fall here.

Meantime, go outside and get some sun.

ann

 

On May 2, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Duncan E wrote:

 

>

>

> The principle of pattern discrimination and customized treatments for

> patients are certainly very important and should be adhered to

> whenever circumstances allow.

>

> However, in a situation where hundreds, maybe thousands or even ten of

> thousands of sick people are at the door needing help, perhaps more

> general treatments are in order.

>

> Sometimes a fairly effective treatment for many people is better than

> the most excellent treatments for a few.

>

> --

> Duncan E

>

> " We are here to help each other get though this thing, whatever it

> is. "

> -Mark Vonnegut

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Duncan and all,

 

Seems to me that Duncan not familiar with how mass treatment are conducted in

Chinese medicine. For general preventive treatment, herbal are decocted in large

containers and give away like soups are given away by soup kitchen or in canteen

setting. Everyone gets a bowl of decoction.

 

For those infected or hospitalized, decoctions are prepared according to 3 or 4

different patterns identifications. Patients are diagnosed and classified as

which type they belong to and are given the decoctions accordingly. A team of

experienced Chinese medicine medical staff, for example, 3 to 6 can handle

hundreds.

 

Even today, some medicinal beverage (decoctions) with Chinese herbal ingredients

are prepared in the central kitchen system and are distributed to various shops

for consumers on daily basis. There are a variety of choices: from fighting off

fever to nailing down pimples. It is a matter of Chinese culture and are usual

secnery for visitors to Hong Kong, Southern China, and Taiwan.

 

For your information, it is not uncommon that some busiest and most sought-after

Chinese medicine doctors in China can see 60 to 90 patients in half day; some

are on Mon to Fri basis. I don't see any reasons why can't TCM doctors do that

under similar circumstances.

 

I also recalled that when I had my acu. training in the acupuncture dept at a

teaching hopsital in the capital city of Hebei Province, China, some acupuncture

doctor told me that they treated a hundred plus paralysed patients per day after

the earthquake in 1976. As the earthquake stroke in midnight, causalties reached

one-third of millions and hundreds and thousands were paralysed as a result(most

buildings were 2-storey wood-made materials).

 

The only obstacle, I think is how the western medicine professional take it.

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming

[Guest guest]

Sung,

 

 

 

I would like to hear more about the herb formula below:

 

 

 

1) Did you come up with this?

 

2) Can you explain the rationale for each herb choice, and why some

others were not picked.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

Gan cao(licorice), jin yin hua(lonicerae), da qing ye (isatis leaf), ge gen

(pueraria), yi yi ren (coix), lian qiao(forsythia),ban lan gen(isatis root)

all 30g; one can use a large pot to decoct for dozens of patients.

 

My best wishes to the people in Mexico and those are infected wherever you

are. Feel free to contact me if I can be more helpful.

I hope Chinese medicine profession can take this opportunity to contribute

more to the world of medical profession.

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming

PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

According to Dr. Sung's formula,

 

there is a prepared granule that is very similar.

I have found this formula very effective for the flu

(fever, coughing, sore throat, body aches, esp around the neck and

shoulders).

 

In a few people's experience, this has been more effective than

Bai hu tang, Yin qiao, Gan mao or Ge gen tang for symptomatic relief.

 

Compare Dr. Sung's ingredients with the one in this prepared granule:

http://www.mayway.com/store/product.do?productId=3280

 

It's a very cold formula, which will make you sweat within 30 minutes, then

you feel much much better.

K

 

 

 

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:23 AM, <

> wrote:

 

>

>

> Sung,

>

> I would like to hear more about the herb formula below:

>

> 1) Did you come up with this?

>

> 2) Can you explain the rationale for each herb choice, and why some

> others were not picked.

>

> Thanks,

>

> -Jason

>

>

> Gan cao(licorice), jin yin hua(lonicerae), da qing ye (isatis leaf), ge gen

> (pueraria), yi yi ren (coix), lian qiao(forsythia),ban lan gen(isatis root)

> all 30g; one can use a large pot to decoct for dozens of patients.

>

> My best wishes to the people in Mexico and those are infected wherever you

> are. Feel free to contact me if I can be more helpful.

> I hope Chinese medicine profession can take this opportunity to contribute

> more to the world of medical profession.

>

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

> PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong)

>

>

[Guest guest]

I did receive this preventive formula, similar to the one below

from the University of TCM Guangzhou

 

sang ye 12g & #12289;ju hua 12g & #12289;xing ren 10g & #12289;pi pa ye 12g & #12289;ge

gen 15g & #12289;yi yi ren 15g & #12289;

lu gen 15g & #12289;jie geng 12g & #12289;lian qiao 12g & #12289;da qing ye

15g & #12289;jin ying hua 12g & #12289;

gan cao 6g. Decocted with water for 15 mins with a strong fire.

 

Gaal

>

>

>

> I would like to hear more about the herb formula below:

>

>

>

> 1) Did you come up with this?

>

> 2) Can you explain the rationale for each herb choice, and why some

> others were not picked.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> -Jason

>

>

>

> Gan cao(licorice), jin yin hua(lonicerae), da qing ye (isatis leaf), ge gen

> (pueraria), yi yi ren (coix), lian qiao(forsythia),ban lan gen(isatis root)

> all 30g; one can use a large pot to decoct for dozens of patients.

>

> My best wishes to the people in Mexico and those are infected wherever you

> are. Feel free to contact me if I can be more helpful.

> I hope Chinese medicine profession can take this opportunity to contribute

> more to the world of medical profession.

>

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

> PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong)

>

 

[Guest guest]

To Sung Yuk-ming in particular,

 

Thank you very much for your explanation, very interesting indeed.

The approach taken in China sounds quite effective.

 

Have you ever been involved in using this approach outside of China?

 

I would be very interested to hear if any practitioners here in the

West have ever been involved in the treatment of an epidemic which was

conducted in the manner Sung Yuk-Ming describes.

 

In fact, if anyone has been involved in using decoctions to treat a

large number of patients under emergency conditions, I , for one,

would love to learn the details.(i.e. the nitty gritty of how to

organize and execute this under stressful circumstances)

 

I certainly agree that there could be a variety of " ready-made "

formulas that could be applied quickly allowing for some extra pattern

discrimination.

 

--

Duncan E

 

 

" We are here to help each other get though this thing, whatever it is. "

-Mark Vonnegut

[Guest guest]

I guess it is pointless to discuss prescriptions for swine flu as we don¡¦t have

first hand data of these patients or data from CDC, based upon which we come up

with diagnosis, treatment principles, and selection of medicinals. Despite that,

when we discuss the protocol for this flu, there are some footsteps we can

follow.

 

Firstly, the experiences we learnt from the outbreak of SARS in Hong Kong. There

are 200 something casualties before the involvement of Chinese medicine. I am

sure the experiences of applying Chinese medicine from that pandemic can largely

apply in this swine flu, plus pattern identification.

 

Besides, as I mentioned before, the climate factor should be taken into

considerations. My search of temp and humidity in San Luis Potosi (first

casualty in Mexico) are 19 degree and 46% respectively, probably similar to that

in Texas or California, or Kansas. As I am not familiar with the climate there

(except the state of Texas), there may be some clues to explain the origin of

this flu. It is said that CDC had identified this flu back in 2005 and suspected

that there was casualty in States earlier than her neighbor (not confirmed). Flu

is so common that it kills a few every year in any city and may be easily

overlooked.

 

Moreover, understanding the symptoms help us a lot. A CBS interview of a family

contracted of this type A H1N1 flu from Cibolo, Tx. suggested that the symptoms

they carried include body ache, fever, fatigue, chills, running nose. Like any

other flu contractions, the symptoms are slight initially but highly contagious.

What makes this flu unique is it is a blend of new genes of various viruses,

combinations of avian virus of N. America, swine virus fr NA, and swine virus

from Asia, etc. According to an epidemiologist from Cornell U, it hits the young

adults mostly due to cytokine storm, overreacting of his or her own immune

system, causing suffocation.

 

About the treatment. I am interested in the treatment of those hospitalized and

those in acute conditions due to this flu. Tamiful and Relenza can handle the

current stage of virus so far (before mutation). However, the SARS experiences

of Hong Kong were far from desirable. Patients were given high dosage of

cortisones and antibiotics up to 1000m per day in a row before the virus was

identified plus the introduction of Chinese medicine. The surviving patients

have still suffered from the severe bone withering along with other side effects

for the rest of their lives. I guess the involvement of Chinese medicine can

heavily relieve the undesirable symptoms of cortisones.

 

Most formulas we use in Warm Diseases have been taught in school. For example,

White Tiger Decoction, Ge Gen Decoction is from the book of Jin Gui Yao Lue and

Shang Han Lan. Others such as Yin Qian San, Huo Xiang Zheng Qi San, Qing Ying

Tang, etc can also be used depending whether the evils are in wei, qi, ying, xu

aspects. We do also utilize our clinical knowledge to select the appropriate

medicinals to treat other secondary symptoms. That is also what Chinese medicine

can edge over the western drugs. It is also available now without waiting for

the upcoming vaccination or H1N1.

 

With the application of Chinese medicine, hopefully we can cut down the

casualties and early withdrawal of cortisone. Although I am not affiliated with

any higher institutions of Chinese medicine and I am very busy writing books, I

can make time to help. If someone are in such condition whether in Mexico city

or other part of those countries with confirmed infection of the flu, I am

willing to help though I cannot promise anything.

 

My 2 cents,

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming

PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong)

[Guest guest]

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:03 AM, sxm2649 <sxm2649 wrote:

 

>

>

> My search of temp and humidity in San Luis Potosi (first casualty in

> Mexico) are 19 degree and 46% respectively, probably similar to that in

> Texas or California, or Kansas.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cases of confirmed H1N1 flu are not strictly favoring geographical

regions. Here's a neat tool thanks to google

maps<http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en & q=San+Luis+Potosi,+Mexico & um=1 & ie=UTF-8 & s\

plit=0 & gl=us>.

I'm not sure how important the local climate is to the actual pathogen or

its presentation.

 

According to an epidemiologist from Cornell U, it hits the young adults

> mostly due to cytokine storm, overreacting of his or her own immune system,

> causing suffocation.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the Western mechanism that reminds me of the interaction

between interferon

and chai hu <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8821988> where the immune

system overreacts and causes breathing problems.

 

More important to me than the external climate of these cases is the

internal climate. The fatal cases of this flu is favoring young adults who

are full of yang qi. Young adults walk around in cold weather wearing little

more than a t-shirt and shorts because they're running so warm on the

inside. Add a heat pathogen and you've got a severe, acute problem. While

we're clearing heat from wherever it presents, we should remain cognizant of

the cytokine boosting herbs. (Doing a quick search for herbs that have those

functions wasn't espeically fruitful.)

 

While I was looking for the chai hu/interferon research, I came across

another study that suggests Chai Hu might aggravate an excessive response of

cytokiines. The research <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12546721> on

this is not especially clear on the effects in a real patient, but something

to consider.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

With the recent H1N1 infuenza news , I am again rethinking my approach to

seasonal and possible pandemic flu in the fall and beyond. My long standing

patients do not get very sick over all, as they know how to use a few simple

formulas to head off colds and flu, and to come in for treatment and get other

herbs for any sequelea which we are able to abate in short order.

 

This being said, I must admit that I do not have a lot of experience with acute

viral illness that is relatively severe. Most folks go to the doctor for that

and dont think of going to an acupuncturist/herbalist.

 

That may change in short order if docs are overwhelmed and not being succesfull

with the current antivirals.

 

Which brings me to the question- has anyone thought out a relatively easy to

implement flu kit with certain formulas for patients to have on hand?I have

revisited this idea over and over in the last few years since SARS.

 

Jake Fratkin has written several good articles on this subject and the

following ones

are what he recommends:

 

1)Yinchiao

2)Gan mao ling

3)Zhong gan ling

4)Chuan xin lian

5)Wu wei xiao du yin

6)Pu ji xiao du yin

7)Sang ju yin

 

I know that we are not able to predict what symtoms a pandemic flu will

present,and of course if we are able to see the patient we will do a pattern

discrimination--but I am thinking of distributing these to patients to have at

home and if need be, keep in touch over the phone re: symptoms and indications

for use, etc.

But these are a good start for viral issues generally.

Has anyone had much experience with these?

I have to say I have only used and sold the first two, and #7

 

I would appreciate any feedback.

thanks,

R.Cooper