mu xiang causing abdominal cramping, borborygmus, diarrhea?

May 27, 2009

I'm treating a client with a modified Wu Ling San for watery shan qi

(hydrocele). The formula is:

fu ling 25

bai zhu 15

ju he 15

ze xie 12

gui zhi 9

mu xiang 9

He immediately reacted with abdominal cramping, diarrhea and borborygmus. I

suspect the mu xiang is the culprit and that his Spleen qi is more empty than I

had thought. What to do next?

In Jiao shu-de's Medicinals book, he recommends a procedure for preparing wei mu

xiang for more strengthening, less qi moving effects. It seems it would remove

the oils, not really roast it.

I could strengthen his spleen more, lower the dose of mu xiang ... Anyone have a

recommendation?

Client is 63, has a hydrocele with no local heat or pain, just swelling. His

tongue has a yellow coat from back to middle, which is thinner and less greasy

than before a week on the formula, though still quite yellow. Midline pronounced

crack, red tip. His pulse:

H irreg, choppy, sl superficial

LV taut, sl empty

K empty

L moderate

SP full, deep

K sl empty

May 27, 2009

Hi Marian,

It sounds like you're using raw herbs, so what I have to add may not apply.

With my extract powders, I find that I need to lower the dosage a bit of the

Mu Xiang because it has a strong taste that otherwise dominates the formula.

Of course, all these complaints that your patient reports is exactly what Mu

Xiang is supposed to treat too. However, if the response was immediate,

perhaps he's reacting to the strength of the taste rather than its effect on

the intestines.

This problem may be what I would call a " lower intestinal gag " . Intestinal

peristalsis is very sensitive to stress and emotions. The human body is good

at identifying noxious substances that cause us to be nauseated by a given

taste when we try it again. I can theorize that something that tastes really

bad could easily generate some lower abdominal problems.

Just a few thoughts.

I'd be interested in hearing how his vericosele responds.

-al.

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO <

chinesemed wrote:

>

> I'm treating a client with a modified Wu Ling San for watery shan qi

> (hydrocele). The formula is:

> fu ling 25

> bai zhu 15

> ju he 15

> ze xie 12

> gui zhi 9

> mu xiang 9

>

> He immediately reacted with abdominal cramping, diarrhea and borborygmus. I

> suspect the mu xiang is the culprit and that his Spleen qi is more empty

> than I had thought. What to do next?

>

> In Jiao shu-de's Medicinals book, he recommends a procedure for preparing

> wei mu xiang for more strengthening, less qi moving effects. It seems it

> would remove the oils, not really roast it.

>

> I could strengthen his spleen more, lower the dose of mu xiang ... Anyone

> have a recommendation?

>

> Client is 63, has a hydrocele with no local heat or pain, just swelling.

> His tongue has a yellow coat from back to middle, which is thinner and less

> greasy than before a week on the formula, though still quite yellow. Midline

> pronounced crack, red tip. His pulse:

> H irreg, choppy, sl superficial

> LV taut, sl empty

> K empty

> L moderate

> SP full, deep

> K sl empty

>

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

May 27, 2009

Dear Marian,

Those are pretty high dosages for a Westerner, particularly of Bai Zhu, Ju He

and Mu Xiang, and particularly, for, as I suspect, someone who hasn't taken

herbs before. You're right, Mu Xiang is THE herb to promote peristalsis, but

what your formula has done is hyperstimulated the musculature. Try lowering the

doses and add other herbs to balance the aggresive nature of the one's in your