Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 - Feedback on effective formula for altitude sickness - My wife and I just returned from 2 weeks in Peru - We were hiking at altitudes up to 12,000 feet - We had purchased a product called Altigen (www.getaltigen.com) - The ingredients as listed are: Rhodiola crenulata American ginseng Angelica sinensis Panax noto-ginseng Potentilla anserina Brown's lilly bulb - We were taking 2 tablet (500mg) up to 3 times per day and found it amazingly effective - If the pills are crunched and washed down with water, they provide immediate relief within a couple of minutes Best Regards John F. ________________ Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 thanks for the input! Cara O. Frank, R. OM Six Fishes China Herb Company Chinese Herb Department Tai Sophia Institute www.carafrank.com 215-772-0770 On Jul 9, 2009, at 10:56 PM, John Freeman wrote: > > > - Feedback on effective formula for altitude sickness > - My wife and I just returned from 2 weeks in Peru > - We were hiking at altitudes up to 12,000 feet > - We had purchased a product called Altigen (www.getaltigen.com) > - The ingredients as listed are: > Rhodiola crenulata > American ginseng > Angelica sinensis > Panax noto-ginseng > Potentilla anserina > Brown's lilly bulb > - We were taking 2 tablet (500mg) up to 3 times per day and found > it amazingly effective > - If the pills are crunched and washed down with water, they provide > immediate relief > within a couple of minutes > Best Regards John F. > > ________ > Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark > your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Sorry quick correction, I should have written " in the wake of diseases that have led to blood vacuity " and " engenders liquid " Sorry, I typed that after a long day and was trying to focus on several different things at the same time According to the Flora of China it grows in " Meadows, grasslands on mountain slopes, river and ditch banks, wet places, roadsides; 500--4100 m. Gansu, Hebei, Heilongjiang, Jilin, Liaoning, Nei Mongol, Ningxia, Qinghai, Shaanxi, Shanxi, Sichuan, Xinjiang, Xizang, Yunnan [Asia, Australia (Tasmania), Europe, North America, Pacific Islands (New Zealand), South America (Chile)]. " This is also a relatively common cultivar and if you Google it there are abundant references. It is also used in Western herbal medicine, but I only know it as an astringent like most of the other Potentillas, which are NOT related to the bai tou weng (白头ç¿) " Pusatilla chinensis " NOT Potentilla! These plant are VERY different, the later being a member of the Ranuculacea family (Think fuzi) and the former being in the Rosacea family (think mei gui hua). And someone suggested that botany is unimportant to practitioners of Chinese medicine....hmmm? Thomas P.S. You can see my blog entry on Pulsatilla to learn more about botany issues concerning that plant. NOTE: I have not had access to my blog for over a month now so there have been no new up-dates recently, however there are several blogs folks here may be interested in. Beijing, China Author of " Western Herbs According to Traditional : A Practitioners Guide " Check out my blog: sourcepointherbs.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Hello Group I would like to add a short comment about that altitude sickness formula and potentilla anserina/jue ma: Looking at that formula it seems to me simple grouping together of all the plants that are known in chinese herbalism to be effective to a certain degree in altitude sickness, nothing more. No other reasoning in terms of herbs fitting together well or so visible to me. And juema belongs to this group. It is the little sweet brown root, that is served with a lot of sugar as a dessert in tibetan hostels and that is sold on the markets in the highlands. Nina Zhao-Seiler Praxis für Traditionelle Chinesische Medizin Wilfriedstrasse 8 CH-8032 Zürich Tel: +41 44 251 1331 Fax: +41 43 243 6990 ninaseiler www.tongentangpraxis.org www.tcmherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Hi Nina, Thanks for that info. The point that Bob brought up about the legality of prescribing herbs we're not formally trained with or familiar herbs used in ways different than what's in the " standard " materia medica texts still seems like an uncomfortable grey area for me. For example, let's say I prescribed this altitude sickness formula (but it could be yunan bai yao or another formula with an unfamiliar ingredient) to a patient climbing to Maccu piccu and along the way they ate some unfamiliar food that caused them to have severe diarrhea. The patient then sued me saying the herbs caused the diarrhea. Would I be able to defend myself in court as a licensed TCM practitioner for using a product with one ingredient I was unfamiliar with? I'm not sure where the legal line is drawn. -Danny On Jul 14, 2009, at 2:30 AM, Nina Zhao-Seiler wrote: > > >> Hello Group >> >> I would like to add a short comment about that altitude sickness >> formula and potentilla anserina/jue ma: >> Looking at that formula it seems to me simple grouping together of >> all the plants that are known in chinese herbalism to be effective to >> a certain degree in altitude sickness, nothing more. No other >> reasoning in terms of herbs fitting together well or so visible to >> me. And juema belongs to this group. It is the little sweet brown >> root, that is served with a lot of sugar as a dessert in tibetan >> hostels and that is sold on the markets in the highlands. >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Nina, Thanks. Knowing that the herb is sweet enough to be used as a desert helps a long way in understanding this medicinal. Is there some possibility of the Latin species identification for this plant being wrong? Most sources I found on-line talk about this medicinal (Potentilla anserina) being astringent, which is not a quality I normally associate with sweetness. As with Potentilla chinensis (Bai Tou Weng), I've also been assuming it's bitter and cold, again based on the medicinal indications I found on-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Bob, Thomas already pointed this out that Bai Tou Weng is is Pulsatilla chinensis which is in the Ranunculaceae family while Potentilla are in the Rosaceae. In thinking of sweet and astringent, the rose family is loaded with examples of this although the two flavors don't necessarily exist in the same part of the plant. Fu Pen Zi, Chinese raspberry is Sweet, sour, slightly warm while Jin Ying Zi is Sour, astringent; balanced. I'm willing to bet if you brewed up a cup of Jin Ying Zi tea as a infusion, not decoction, a lot of sweetness would come out. A strong possibility is that the plant part that is made as a tea is not that which is used medicinally. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hello Bob, hello All, As has been mentioned, Juema/Potentilla Anserina botanically belongs to the rosacea family (family of rose-like plants), like apples, rasberries and hawthorn for example. Though I am convinced that Juema actually belongs to that family and also to the potentillas within than family, I am not so sure if it is really the same kind of potentilla anserina that we know from europe, since I hav'nt found any mentioning at all in european literature of those little tubers, that the plant makes in China in its underground parts. This might be due to difference in soil, but it might also be a different species of Potentilla. I hav'nt found literature on that difference in chinese sources either, where Juema is said to be Potentilla anserina. I am going to try to find out about that this summer. In general plants of the rose family are not toxic neither are the potentillas in particular (in Europe several of the potentillas are used to astringe, to stop bleeding and inflammation of mucosal membranes and the skin, but only the herb is used, not the root) Personally I dont think making " herbal cocktails " by mixing all kinds of herbs just because they have been found effective at some point regarding one type of situation, regardless of them matching well or not. I think that we can do better with are knowledge of how to combine herbs according to their complex qualities (qi +wei + organsystems + specific function) So, when wanting to integrate a " new " herb, I think one should find out as much as possible about traditional uses of it. Greetings Nina Nina Zhao-Seiler Praxis für Traditionelle Chinesische Medizin Wilfriedstrasse 8 CH-8032 Zürich Tel: +41 44 251 1331 Fax: +41 43 243 6990 ninaseiler www.tongentangpraxis.org www.tcmherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Just back from East Coast. Ha! Don't know how I could've mistaken Potentilla for Pulsatilla, especially since we have Potentilla growing all around our house. No wonder I retired last Fall. Please excuse my senior moment(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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