Tong Qi San

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

Has anyone used Tong Qi San (Powder for Moving Qi) from Yi Zong Jin

Jian (The Golden Mirror of Medicine) for acute lower back strain?

Dr. Wei Chieh Young mentions it in his book (Lectures on Tungs

Acupuncture: Therapeutic Systems) with the ingredients as:

Mu Xiang

Chuan Shan Jia

Chen Pi

Gan Cao

Xiao Hui Xiang

Zhi Gan Cao

Hei Chou (Qian Niu Zi)

Yuan Hu So

etc...

The etcetera part and lack of dosages is a bit disconcerting since I

can't find this formula written in any of my books. The Tong Qi San

in Bensky is a completely different formula for a different pattern.

If anyone has any info on this formula I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thank you,

David Russell, L.Ac.

 

Russell Family Acupuncture

134 Howard Street

Petaluma, CA 94952

707.773.3375

 

http://www.acuherbal.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

David,

 

My copy of the Yi Zong Jin Jian is packed up for moving this week. So I can't

look it up for you. However, the " etc. " may actually not mean that. That

character is often used at the end of a string of things. In that case, it acts

like a generic plural number word. So the list of ingredients may be complete

and it may only be a faulty translation.

 

If you don't have an answer to this question by the beginning of September,

shoot me a PM at bob and I'll look it up for you. Why September

and not August? As soon as my office is moved next week, I go on retreat till

Aug. 31 down in Pagosa Springs.

[Guest guest]

, " David Russell, L.Ac. " <dave

wrote:

>

> Hello everyone,

> Has anyone used Tong Qi San (Powder for Moving Qi) from Yi Zong Jin

> Jian (The Golden Mirror of Medicine) for acute lower back strain?

> Dr. Wei Chieh Young mentions it in his book (Lectures on Tungs

> Acupuncture: Therapeutic Systems) with the ingredients as:

> Mu Xiang

> Chuan Shan Jia

> Chen Pi

> Gan Cao

> Xiao Hui Xiang

> Zhi Gan Cao

> Hei Chou (Qian Niu Zi)

> Yuan Hu So

 

Bob is correct about the etc note.

 

There are several formulas in the literature that have this name. The closest

one I see to the one you named comes from the book Qi Xiao Liang Fang

(Exceptionally Effective Formulas).

 

It has: (most likely Xiao) Hui Xiang, Mu Xiang, Quan Xie, Yan Hu Suo, Shi Chang

Pu, and Chen Pi (all 3g each), plus Qiang Huo, Jiang Can, Chuan Xiong, and Chan

Tui (1.5g each). Chuan Shan Jia 6g, and Gan Cao 4.5 g.

 

Don't know if that is the formula you are looking for. I didn't get any hits

from the Yi Zong Jin Jian, but that could just be a computer problem.

 

Eric Brand

Blog: http://bluepoppy.com/blog/blogs/index.php

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Here's the Yi Zong Jin Jian and specifically the chapter on lumbar pain

http://www.tcm100.com/user/yzjj/zzbook105.htm There are five types of

lumbar pain formulas presented. The fourth one is listed as

 

ͨÆøÉ¢ »îÂ絤

4¡£ÆøÖÍÉÁ´ìͨÆøÉ¢£¬Ä¾³Â´©Ë÷²ÝÜîÇ££¬Ñªðö²»ÒÆÈç׶´Ì£¬ÈÕÇáÒ¹ÖØ»îÂ絤¡£

¡¾×¢¡¿Í¨ÆøÉ¢£¬¼´Ä¾Ï㣬³ÂƤ£¬´©É½¼×£¬ÔªºúË÷£¬¸Ê²Ý£¬Ð¡ÜîÏ㣬°×ǣţҲ¡£»îÂ絤£¬¼´´¨\

ÎÚ£¬²ÝÎÚ£¬ÄÏÐÇ£¬µØÁú£¬ÈéÏ㣬ûҩ¡£

 

Tong Qi San Huo Luo Dan

4. qi stagnation wrenching and contusion qi freeing powder, mu chen chuan

suo cao hui qian, blood stasis not moving like the piercing of an awl,

daytime better nighttime worse huo luo dan.

 

Like Eric said, there are many formulas with this name, some with completely

different herbs and others being variations similar to the one you

provided. The version below, called Origin-Restoring Qi-Freeing Powder,

comes from the Tai Ping Hui Min He Ji Ju Fang

http://www.0514zx.com/zyzt/zyfj/FANGJIf/200907/zyzt_503782.html, has the

same herbs listed as the Yi Zong Jin Jian version (except YZJJ lists xiao

hui xiang which is Foeniculi Fructus aka fennel, and this one below lists bo

shang hui xiang which is Anisi Stellati Fructus aka star anise) and includes

dosages and some pao zhi notes.

 

¡¾´¦·½¡¿²°ÉÏÜîÏ㣨³´£©¡¢´©É½¼×£¨¸ò·Û³´.È¥·Û£©£¬¸÷¶þÁ½£»ÄÏľÏ㣨²»¼û»ð£©Ò»Á½°ë£¬Ñ\

ÓºúË÷£¨²ÁȥƤ£©¡¢°×ǣţ£¨³´.È¡Ä©£©¡¢³ÂƤ£¨È¥°×£©¡¢¸Ê²Ý£¨³´£©£¬¸÷Ò»Á½¡£

 

bo shang hui xiang (fried), chuan shan jia (Concha Cyclinae stir-fried), two

liang each; southern mu xiang (do not expose to heat) one and a half liang;

yan hu suo (rub off skin), bai qian niu [qian niu zi] (fried, powdered),

chen pi (get rid of white), gan cao (fried), each one liang.

 

One dose is a large qian mixed into warm wine, for illness in upper body

take before food, for illness in lower body take before food. For people

not drinking wine, take with a decoction of the southern mu xiang.

 

Charlie

 

(this text seems to work encoded at Simplified GB 18030 - Doug)

[Guest guest]

......noticed that the last bit should read:

 

....for illness in upper body take *after* food...

 

Charlie

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bob, Eric and Charlie for replying to my post on Tong Qi

San for low back pain.

It's interesting to see the ingredients as listed in the Tai Ping Hui

Min He Ji Ju Fang:

 

bo shang hui xiang (fried), chuan shan jia (Concha Cyclinae stir-

fried), two

liang each; southern mu xiang (do not expose to heat) one and a half

liang;

yan hu suo (rub off skin), bai qian niu [qian niu zi] (fried, powdered),

chen pi (get rid of white), gan cao (fried), each one liang.

 

The masterful use of pao zhi is inspiring.

 

Interesting to me too that Qian Niu Zi (morning glory seed) is in

this formula. It is not an herb I have ever used. Any thoughts on why

it would be included here?

 

David Russell, L.Ac., CMT

 

Russell Family Acupuncture

134 Howard Street

Petaluma, CA 94952

707.773.3375

 

http://www.acuherbal.com