Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Trevor, Can you send me a link for these creams? Thank you! Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Thu, 9/10/09, trevor_erikson <trevor_erikson wrote: trevor_erikson <trevor_erikson Re:Essential Oils Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:15 PM Thomas you wrote, " Are we to think the final word has been laid down about how to use herbs from China and how to use them to modify formulas? If so, the medicine is dead. Is that what we should believe? " This is an interesting thought you have, as many believe in Chinese medicine that it is not about trying to figure out endless extra ways that formulas may be modified and in some way " out smart " the ancients. Many believe that it is more about becoming efficient at diagnosis so that one knows how to " properly fit the key " , ie use the endless supply of herbs and formula that is available to us already. If the correct diagnosis and application of an herbal formula, that has been used for centuries in the same fashion, still works to alleviate and even cure certain suffering, then how can that be seen as a " dead " medicine? To me there is nothing wrong with incorporating western herbs into your chinese herbal recipes, even if it is purely based on empirical usage. I believe, as Bob mentioned, that it is just about communicating properly to your patients what you are doing. Is it something you made up? Is it something you learned from a teacher? Or read in a book? I always try to explain the actions of the herbal formula I give my patients. I tell them where I learned such styles of treatment, and whether it is " new " theory or if it is " traditional " . I even do this with acupuncture. For example, I tell all my IVF patients when they come in for acupuncture that what I am offering them is new and based on modern research studies. That the point combination showed good benefit according to the study, but they are not necessarily traditional in any sense, as we didn't have IVF 2000 years ago! When I use Mazin's creams for psoriasis (which work amazingly well), I tell them that they are the product of 25 years of experience using traditional Chinese herbal preparations combined with the best knowledge in modern western cream manufacturing. Communication is key. T , " " <tag.plantgeek@ ...> wrote: > > Will, > > That is an interesting story about the addition of Kava in to Chai Hu Mu Li Long Gu Tang in Taiwan. I will look for that information. Eric, have you seen anything around this. Kava is one of the herbs in the first volume of my book, so any information around how it is used in Taiwan would be very interesting and I would like to include it in the second volume as an addendum. > > Bob, Brian, et al, > > While I do not disagree with you that informed consent is an extremely important ethical matter, and I am not categorically opposed to telling my patients that I use Western herbs in my practice, I disagree that it is experimental. If this was true then everything that we do is experimental. Can you be absolutely sure that you have made the correct diagnosis and have prescribed the right formula with perfect modifications? > > When I use Western herbs in practice it is either as a simple/combination that is given separately as a tincture (sometime this is a combination of Western and Chinese herbs) or they are combined into a larger formula, based on a standard formula. Can you be sure that every combination of herbs you give has been given before and therefore you know any and all the possible outcomes? Are the human ecosystems of your patients the same as the patients of Yuan Dynasty China? > > The herbs I use have a long history of use. Most of them have abundant literature, often dating back well over a 1000 years. They are primarily used as modifications to address certain symptoms or symptom patterns. Over my years working in Michael Tierra's clinic, as well as with a number of other practitioners in Santa Cruz who use some Western herbs, along with studying with some very good Western herbal teachers such as Christopher Hobbs (who is also an L.Ac.) and David Hoffmann, combined with a fever for reading everything I can possibly find about these herbs (both historical and modern) lead me to feel very comfortable using these herbs in my practice. I feel like I know them as well as (or even better than) I know the " Chinese " herbs found in the Bensky et al. MM. Finally, the manuscript was read by a number of my colleagues who commented on and in some cases influenced the final product. > > So, I don't really consider the use of these herbs as experimental per se. What is experimental is the way I describe the herbs, the jargon of Chinese medicine. However, when you read the book, you will see me state very clearly that I consider this the next step, not the final word. In fact, this is true in Chinese medicine. Are we to think the the final word has been laid down about how to use herbs from China and how to use them to modify formulas? If so, the medicine is dead. Is that what we should believe? > > Also, when you read the book you see that, just like in a Chinese materia medica, an herb is described by its function and then by its indications. The function is, I will admit, somewhat experimental. However, the indications are not! These are the indications that can be found throughout the literature for these plants. The construction of the language of Chinese medicine, the jargon if you will, is used to teach, understand, and apply the system of Chinese medicine. This is, of course, extremely important. But, if you read several Chinese materia medicas you will see that there is not complete agreement about most herbs. So, to suggest that Chinese medicine and all its theories and therapies are absolutely agreed upon is, well, simply not true. > > Finally, again, if anyone has any specific comments or questions about what I have written feel free to contact me, either publicly or privately and I will do my best to address the comments or answer the questions. > > In Good Health, > Thomas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Hi Andrea, Mazin used to only sell to people he know had good training in Dermatology, as many of his creams are for very specific subtypes of skin disease. For example, I believe he has around 6 or more different ones just for psoriasis. Maybe 2 to 3 times that for eczema. He basically wanted to ensure that people know what cream to use and when. That was a of couple years ago and I am not sure what his policies are now. His website and contact is here if you want to investigate: http://www.avicenna.co.uk/herbal-dispensary/ All the best, Trevor , < wrote: > > Trevor, > > Can you send me a link for these creams? Thank you! > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Thu, 9/10/09, trevor_erikson <trevor_erikson wrote: > > trevor_erikson <trevor_erikson > Re:Essential Oils > > Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:15 PM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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