Pao Zhi of Reishi/ Ganoderma

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

It is mushroom time here in Oregon, and I have recently harvested a number of

Reishi mushrooms. I was wondering if anyone else out there gathers their own

Reishi, and how they prepare it. The traditional recipe (that I know) is to

make a jiao with it using brandy, and to ingest it as a tincture. A fellow

herbalist and I were talking and he thought the most appropriate way to get the

most chemical constituents out of Ganoderma was to use a water decoction. I

thought I would post and see what the group thought.

 

Sincerely,

 

L.Ac.

The Database

[Guest guest]

Hey Jonathan,

 

Years ago I apprenticed with a herbalist on Vancouver island who used to make

tinctures with the local Ganodermas that grew there using anywhere between

70-90% alcohol macerated for at least 3-4 weeks.  She also dried a bunch and had

it ground up to be used in water based preparations.  She ran a herb shop and

sold both and had lots of success through the years.  Having both at the shop

was more for patient convenience.

 

Also, I believe myco-medicinals has Reishi in capsule and extract form. 

 

Both seem to be fine. 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Eran

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, jonk2012 <jonk2012 wrote:

 

jonk2012 <jonk2012

Pao Zhi of Reishi/ Ganoderma

 

Received: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:49 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi All,

 

 

 

It is mushroom time here in Oregon, and I have recently harvested a number of

Reishi mushrooms. I was wondering if anyone else out there gathers their own

Reishi, and how they prepare it. The traditional recipe (that I know) is to

make a jiao with it using brandy, and to ingest it as a tincture. A fellow

herbalist and I were talking and he thought the most appropriate way to get the

most chemical constituents out of Ganoderma was to use a water decoction. I

thought I would post and see what the group thought.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

L.Ac.

 

The Database

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________

Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Mail:

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[Guest guest]

The mushrooms are ganoderma, but they are ganoderma applanati, which

are different from the ling zhi ganoderma in China. I don't think we

can assume that they have the same medicinal actions as their Chinese

cousins. . . but it's worth a try.

 

I harvested some ganoderma in New Mexico a few years ago on one of my

herb walks, but never prepared it. I just looked at it like a trophy

in my living room. Some people hunt moose, I hunt herbs. .

 

 

 

On Sep 21, 2009, at 4:49 PM, jonk2012 wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> It is mushroom time here in Oregon, and I have recently harvested a

> number of Reishi mushrooms. I was wondering if anyone else out there

> gathers their own Reishi, and how they prepare it. The traditional

> recipe (that I know) is to make a jiao with it using brandy, and to

> ingest it as a tincture. A fellow herbalist and I were talking and

> he thought the most appropriate way to get the most chemical

> constituents out of Ganoderma was to use a water decoction. I

> thought I would post and see what the group thought.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> L.Ac.

> The Database

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There are a number of Ganoderma species in Oregon.

 

Ganoderma oregonense:

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Ganoderma_oregonense.html

 

Ganoderma applanatum:

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Ganoderma_applanatum.html

 

Ganoderma tsugae:

http://www.messiah.edu/Oakes/fungi_on_wood/poroid%20fungi/species%20pages/Ganode\

rma%20tsugae.htm

 

They are all medicinal, but it's not known if all their properties are

equivalent to Reishi (Ling Zhi; Ganoderma lucidum). Probably not. There are both

water soluble and alcohol soluble constituents. I prefer the water extracts,

since that is the traditional method.

 

- Bill Schoenbart

 

 

, erany even <eranee wrote:

>

> Hey Jonathan,

>

> Years ago I apprenticed with a herbalist on Vancouver island who used to make

tinctures with the local Ganodermas that grew there using anywhere between

70-90% alcohol macerated for at least 3-4 weeks.  She also dried a bunch and had

it ground up to be used in water based preparations.  She ran a herb shop and

sold both and had lots of success through the years.  Having both at the shop

was more for patient convenience.

>

> Also, I believe myco-medicinals has Reishi in capsule and extract form. 

>

> Both seem to be fine. 

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Eran

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 9/21/09, jonk2012 <jonk2012 wrote:

>

> jonk2012 <jonk2012

> Pao Zhi of Reishi/ Ganoderma

>

> Received: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:49 PM

>

>

>

>

> Hi All,

>

>

>

> It is mushroom time here in Oregon, and I have recently harvested a number of

Reishi mushrooms. I was wondering if anyone else out there gathers their own

Reishi, and how they prepare it. The traditional recipe (that I know) is to

make a jiao with it using brandy, and to ingest it as a tincture. A fellow

herbalist and I were talking and he thought the most appropriate way to get the

most chemical constituents out of Ganoderma was to use a water decoction. I

thought I would post and see what the group thought.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> L.Ac.

>

> The Database

>

>

[Guest guest]

In my notes from studying Allergic Asthma with Mazin, I noticed that he likes to

use Ling Zhi at 24g with Huang Qi 30g for slow responders or with frequent

relapses. He uses the Ling Zhi in water based decoctions.

 

Mazin is actually a mushroom enthusiast himself and loves to wild craft them in

the UK and throughout Erupoe. I was hoping to take him on a hike through our

local mountains, here around Vancouver, when he comes to teach in November.

Unfortunately I think most of the mushrooms are going to be disintegrated by

then from the rains :-(

 

Trevor

 

 

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

The species that I have been gathering is definitely Ganoderma oregonense. I

have a picture if anyone wants it, of a Reishi that we found that was a foot

long and 6 inches wide. It was beautiful. We left it growing on its tree --

King of the Woods .

 

Thanks for your replies. It sounds like one can process it either way. My

colleague who I started this conversation with initially said that he had

processed it as a " wine, " but didn't think that he had extracted all of the

essential nutrients. So I will probably go the drying and powdering route.

 

Once again, thanks for the replies.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jonathan

 

P.S. I too have had one in my car as a trophy for a few years, that a friend had

given me. So I am right there with you Z'ev. It was only after I started to

find more myself this year, that I was like: " I have to use these.... "

[Guest guest]

Hi Trevor,

 

Actually you should still be in luck. I have gathered chanterelles all the way

up to Thanksgiving. We call them chanterelle-cicles

 

It is a freeze that would kill most mushrooms off, but Ganodermas and other

polypore mushrooms are not affected by freezing, so they would still be out

there as well. I am just a novice really. I have about 10 species under my

belt, but find mushrooms interesting, and as far as harvesting seasonally goes,

they fill a space where generally there is less food to gather, at least here in

the Pacific Northwest. I had always found that the time between the first frost

and January or February to be hard to find things to wild craft either for food

or for medicine. Mushrooms fill in some of this hole for me as, at least where

I live, they are up from mid August to beginning of December. Then the first

crop of nettles comes up in January.

 

So go out with your teacher. If he likes to hunt mushrooms, he should still be

able to find some interesting specimens out there at that time.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jonathan

 

, " trevor_erikson " <trevor_erikson

wrote:

>

> In my notes from studying Allergic Asthma with Mazin, I noticed that he likes

to use Ling Zhi at 24g with Huang Qi 30g for slow responders or with frequent

relapses. He uses the Ling Zhi in water based decoctions.

>

> Mazin is actually a mushroom enthusiast himself and loves to wild craft them

in the UK and throughout Erupoe. I was hoping to take him on a hike through our

local mountains, here around Vancouver, when he comes to teach in November.

Unfortunately I think most of the mushrooms are going to be disintegrated by

then from the rains :-(

>

> Trevor

>

>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The Vancouver mushroom club holds its annual fair at the end of October, so it

is likely that there will still be mushrooms when Mazin is there in November.

I'll be coming to his seminar, and I would love to get out in the woods to look

around for fungi at that time.

 

- Bill

 

 

 

, " trevor_erikson " <trevor_erikson

wrote:

>

> In my notes from studying Allergic Asthma with Mazin, I noticed that he likes

to use Ling Zhi at 24g with Huang Qi 30g for slow responders or with frequent

relapses. He uses the Ling Zhi in water based decoctions.

>

> Mazin is actually a mushroom enthusiast himself and loves to wild craft them

in the UK and throughout Erupoe. I was hoping to take him on a hike through our

local mountains, here around Vancouver, when he comes to teach in November.

Unfortunately I think most of the mushrooms are going to be disintegrated by

then from the rains :-(

>

> Trevor

>

>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bill and Jonathan, thanks for the tips

 

I am actually looking at hiring a mushroom guide for a day, possibly the

thursday- Nov 12th. Any recommendations?

 

Trevor

 

, " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2

wrote:

>

> The Vancouver mushroom club holds its annual fair at the end of October, so it

is likely that there will still be mushrooms when Mazin is there in November.

I'll be coming to his seminar, and I would love to get out in the woods to look

around for fungi at that time.

>

> - Bill

>

>

>

> , " trevor_erikson " <trevor_erikson@>

wrote:

> >

> > In my notes from studying Allergic Asthma with Mazin, I noticed that he

likes to use Ling Zhi at 24g with Huang Qi 30g for slow responders or with

frequent relapses. He uses the Ling Zhi in water based decoctions.

> >

> > Mazin is actually a mushroom enthusiast himself and loves to wild craft them

in the UK and throughout Erupoe. I was hoping to take him on a hike through our

local mountains, here around Vancouver, when he comes to teach in November.

Unfortunately I think most of the mushrooms are going to be disintegrated by

then from the rains :-(

> >

> > Trevor

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I believe that ganoderma lucidum also grows in Oregon, although I have not

seen it there. I have, however seen it in eastern Massachusetts and Up-state

New York. The species does, in fact, (as I remember, but don't have the time

to look for a reference at the moment) grow all throughout the world.

 

There are three species listed in the Zhong Yao Da Ci Dian, G. applanatum,

G. lucidum, G. sinense.

 

I prefer a mixture of an alcohol and decoction preparation. But is takes a

bit of time and patience to make such a preparation.

 

Hope this helps,

Thomas

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

I thought I would run it by Subhuti Dharmananda as I was making an herb order.

Here is what he said (with his permission to re-post of course):

 

" Regarding ganoderma of different species and origins, most would be of the same

use and value, as long as they are edible (non-toxic). There are two main

components of Ganoderma species of medicinal interest, ganoderic acids, a type

of steroidal compound, and polysaccharides, long chains. Ganoderic acid

components could vary among species quite a bit, so that would be the main

concern with substitution; these compounds are soluble in alcohol-water mixtures

(and in plain water). Ganoderic acids, are lanostane triterpenoids, and they

have sedative effects, reduce liver inflammation, and promote healthy blood

circulation; their effect is directly dependent on their dosage.

Polysaccharides are common to the mushrooms in general (and found in several

other herbs, notably astragalus, and in bacteria and yeasts) and though they

might vary in quantity among Ganoderma species or growing conditions, the fact

is that the variability probably doesn't matter because polysaccharide

absorption from the gut is minimal, so the variations are washed out by that.

Polysaccharides, which are used to promote white blood cell

activity, a means of enhancing immune responses, are completely

insoluble in alcohol and so if you make an alcohol-water extract, you

say goodbye to those components (they remain in the material strained

out). The polysaccharides are soluble in water, especially hot water.

Thus, the form of preparation depends on which components you want. "

 

 

I found that his response filled in some of the questions that I had, and I

thought that you all might be interested as well.

 

Sincerely,

 

L.Ac.

The Database

[Guest guest]

Trevor,

 

Try the Vancouver Mycological Society:

 

http://www.vanmyco.com/about.htm

 

I haven't been to Vancouver in over 30 years, so I don't know those folks. But

most mushroom clubs have friendly people. They might even have a club foray that

weekend. Their foray schedule only goes as far as mid-October, so You should ask

them. They could also tell you if it would be necessary to pay someone, or if

they have a member who would do it for free.

 

- Bill

 

 

 

, " trevor_erikson " <trevor_erikson

wrote:

>

> Bill and Jonathan, thanks for the tips

>

> I am actually looking at hiring a mushroom guide for a day, possibly the

thursday- Nov 12th. Any recommendations?

>

> Trevor

>

> , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2@>

wrote:

> >

> > The Vancouver mushroom club holds its annual fair at the end of October, so

it is likely that there will still be mushrooms when Mazin is there in November.

I'll be coming to his seminar, and I would love to get out in the woods to look

around for fungi at that time.

> >

> > - Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > , " trevor_erikson "

<trevor_erikson@> wrote:

> > >

> > > In my notes from studying Allergic Asthma with Mazin, I noticed that he

likes to use Ling Zhi at 24g with Huang Qi 30g for slow responders or with

frequent relapses. He uses the Ling Zhi in water based decoctions.

> > >

> > > Mazin is actually a mushroom enthusiast himself and loves to wild craft

them in the UK and throughout Erupoe. I was hoping to take him on a hike through

our local mountains, here around Vancouver, when he comes to teach in November.

Unfortunately I think most of the mushrooms are going to be disintegrated by

then from the rains :-(

> > >

> > > Trevor

> > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bill,

 

I have emailed the society and am waiting for a reply :-)

 

Years ago we brought some mushroom experts over to Pender Island, my last home,

and I was amazed how many species we found in just a few hundred feet strip of

forest. Very fun and interesting for sure.

 

Hopefully it works out. I am thinking that the thursday before classes start

would be a good day. If I can organize it, it would be great to have you come

along :-) Please email me.

 

Best,

Trevor

 

, " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2

wrote:

>

> Trevor,

>

> Try the Vancouver Mycological Society:

>

> http://www.vanmyco.com/about.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Jonathan,

 

I agree with all of what Subhuti said except:

 

Although he is right that if you strain a alcohol/water extract you will

likely strain out the polysaccharides, I do not strain that type of product.

It makes for a somewhat thick extract that is not the most palatable and is

not the best commercial product, but if you are looking for a good product

and don't really care about the " thickness " of it, well I think this is a

great way to extract ganoderma, that being said the tea is excellent and

probably the most frequent way to use the " herb " . The advantage of the

extract is that you can combine it with other herbs for a formula that you

want to give in a liquid format.

 

When I get a little breathing room I will look again at the Grand Dictionary

of Chinese Medicinals and post a translation of the essence of what is said

there.

 

In Good Health,

Thomas

 

 

cell:

Beijing, China

Author of " Western Herbs According to Traditional : A

Practitioners Guide "

Check out my blog: sourcepointherbs.blogspot.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Has anyone found a clear medical distinction between black, red and other

Ling Zhi's,

as it is written in the Shen nong ben cao jing?

 

K

[Guest guest]

I know Mazin likes to use the purple varieties, touting them to be the best.

 

Trevor

, <johnkokko wrote:

>

> Has anyone found a clear medical distinction between black, red and other

> Ling Zhi's,

> as it is written in the Shen nong ben cao jing?

>

> K

>

[Guest guest]

They speak of five colored zhi- for the five elements/flavours, and

then purple.

 

I've only seen black and red lingzhi on the market- any idea if the

other species are identified? Anyone experiment with the different

American species to see if they have the tastes/effects? Jeffrey Yuen

speaks of doing pao zhi on the black or red to give the results of the

missing flavours- honey process, vinegar, etc. But that's also because

the other colored varieties were very rare or weren't identifiable.

 

Also- since Lingzhi is such an important herb in the bencao (after

all, it's only the first six herbs in Shen Nong Bencao Jing), why is

it not used so much, or seen in classical formulas?

 

 

eric

 

On Sep 24, 2009, at 10:21 AM, wrote:

 

> Has anyone found a clear medical distinction between black, red and

> other

> Ling Zhi's,

> as it is written in the Shen nong ben cao jing?

>

> K

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

David Winston differentiates between preparations of the red and black ling

zhi as well as G. applanatum, G. tsugae and G. japonicum (purple). The

red ling zhi is the most intensely bitter and has the highest concentration

of anticancer triterpenes. It is not pleasant to take in decoction (to put

it mildly), but is most effective for serious immune conditions. I tend to

use it in tincture form, made by stabilizing a reduced decoction with no

more than 25% alcohol, or doing a dual extraction with high alcohol and low

alcohol runs, mixed to no more than 25% alcohol to preserve the

polysaccharides.

 

The other ganodermas are far more similar and are less effective for

tumors, but I have used G. tsugae, G. applanatum and black ling zhi

interchangeably for the last 20 years, except that the G. applanatum is used in

larger

doses. No direct experience with G. japonicum.

 

I was taught by a Thai doctor, Santi Rosswong, to give not less than 500mg

Vitamin C and 5 mg of folic acid along with the ganoderma to break down

the long chain polysaccharides for better absorption. I believe this was

based on Japanese research. He had me mince the slices into half inch pieces,

add water, run it through a Vitamix or blender until it turned into a slurry

and decoct for at least an hour at low temperature. These days I decoct

longer to get the nutrients out of the chitin. Patients who were deficient

were given 10% cordyceps (which in those days was the real thing, not

mycellium.) If patients had an upset stomach from the bitterness, a little

bicarbonate of soda or a digestive mint was given.

 

Karen S. Vaughan, L.Ac., MSTOM

Registered Herbalist (AHG)

Creationsgarden1

253 Garfield Place

Brooklyn, NY 11215

 

(718) 622-6755

 

See my Acupuncture and Herbalism website at: _www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com_

(http://www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com/)

Twitter: Herblady22

Facebook: Karen Vaughan and Facebook group: Swine Flu and Herbalism

Stop Mountaintop Removal Mining: _www.Ilovemountains.org_

(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/appvoices/campaign.jsp?campa\

ign_KEY=14105 &

t=iLoveMountainsMAIN.dwt)

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Eric,

I think that Ling zhi was not an ingredient in classical formulas due to the

fact that it was so rare to find it

in the wild. Only recently has it been cultivated, so that it could be

accessible to you and I.

On a winter solstice, you could take a mushroom to the high peak at sunrise

and howl like a wolf.

 

Karen,

Terry Willard wrote about the addition of Vitamin C to break down long

polysaccharide chains,

discovered by a Japanese scientist. Knowing that in classical daoist art,

Ling zhi is usually depicted

growing under peach trees of immortality, I wonder if the Vitamin C from the

peaches were added to a decoction

of Ling Zhi. I have heard from Korean family that you're supposed to add

Tao ren to Ling zhi in decoction.

Yes... cooking the mushroom for a long time makes all the difference. I

used to decoct it in double ginseng cookers

for hours on a low simmer and drink it in silence.

 

Anyone use the Ling zhi spores?

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:24 PM, <creationsgarden1 wrote:

 

>

>

> David Winston differentiates between preparations of the red and black ling

>

> zhi as well as G. applanatum, G. tsugae and G. japonicum (purple). The

> red ling zhi is the most intensely bitter and has the highest concentration

>

> of anticancer triterpenes. It is not pleasant to take in decoction (to put

> it mildly), but is most effective for serious immune conditions. I tend to

> use it in tincture form, made by stabilizing a reduced decoction with no

> more than 25% alcohol, or doing a dual extraction with high alcohol and low

>

> alcohol runs, mixed to no more than 25% alcohol to preserve the

> polysaccharides.

>

> The other ganodermas are far more similar and are less effective for

> tumors, but I have used G. tsugae, G. applanatum and black ling zhi

> interchangeably for the last 20 years, except that the G. applanatum is

> used in larger

> doses. No direct experience with G. japonicum.

>

> I was taught by a Thai doctor, Santi Rosswong, to give not less than 500mg

> Vitamin C and 5 mg of folic acid along with the ganoderma to break down

> the long chain polysaccharides for better absorption. I believe this was

> based on Japanese research. He had me mince the slices into half inch

> pieces,

> add water, run it through a Vitamix or blender until it turned into a

> slurry

> and decoct for at least an hour at low temperature. These days I decoct

> longer to get the nutrients out of the chitin. Patients who were deficient

> were given 10% cordyceps (which in those days was the real thing, not

> mycellium.) If patients had an upset stomach from the bitterness, a little

> bicarbonate of soda or a digestive mint was given.

>

> Karen S. Vaughan, L.Ac., MSTOM

> Registered Herbalist (AHG)

> Creationsgarden1 <Creationsgarden1%40aol.com>

> 253 Garfield Place

> Brooklyn, NY 11215

>

> (718) 622-6755

>

> See my Acupuncture and Herbalism website at: _www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com_

> (http://www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com/)

> Twitter: Herblady22

> Facebook: Karen Vaughan and Facebook group: Swine Flu and Herbalism

> Stop Mountaintop Removal Mining: _www.Ilovemountains.org_

> (

>

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/appvoices/campaign.jsp?campai\

gn_KEY=14105 &

> t=iLoveMountainsMAIN.dwt)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Karen,

 

 

 

I exclusively use the Spores (ling zhi bao zi fen). These are cracked.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of

Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:17 AM

 

Re: Re: Pao Zhi of Reishi/ Ganoderma

 

 

 

 

 

Eric,

I think that Ling zhi was not an ingredient in classical formulas due to the

fact that it was so rare to find it

in the wild. Only recently has it been cultivated, so that it could be

accessible to you and I.

On a winter solstice, you could take a mushroom to the high peak at sunrise

and howl like a wolf.

 

Karen,

Terry Willard wrote about the addition of Vitamin C to break down long

polysaccharide chains,

discovered by a Japanese scientist. Knowing that in classical daoist art,

Ling zhi is usually depicted

growing under peach trees of immortality, I wonder if the Vitamin C from the

peaches were added to a decoction

of Ling Zhi. I have heard from Korean family that you're supposed to add

Tao ren to Ling zhi in decoction.

Yes... cooking the mushroom for a long time makes all the difference. I

used to decoct it in double ginseng cookers

for hours on a low simmer and drink it in silence.

 

Anyone use the Ling zhi spores?

K

 

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:24 PM, <creationsgarden1

<creationsgarden1%40aol.com> > wrote:

 

>

>

> David Winston differentiates between preparations of the red and black

ling

>

> zhi as well as G. applanatum, G. tsugae and G. japonicum (purple). The

> red ling zhi is the most intensely bitter and has the highest

concentration

>

> of anticancer triterpenes. It is not pleasant to take in decoction (to put

> it mildly), but is most effective for serious immune conditions. I tend to

> use it in tincture form, made by stabilizing a reduced decoction with no

> more than 25% alcohol, or doing a dual extraction with high alcohol and

low

>

> alcohol runs, mixed to no more than 25% alcohol to preserve the

> polysaccharides.

>

> The other ganodermas are far more similar and are less effective for

> tumors, but I have used G. tsugae, G. applanatum and black ling zhi

> interchangeably for the last 20 years, except that the G. applanatum is

> used in larger

> doses. No direct experience with G. japonicum.

>

> I was taught by a Thai doctor, Santi Rosswong, to give not less than 500mg

> Vitamin C and 5 mg of folic acid along with the ganoderma to break down

> the long chain polysaccharides for better absorption. I believe this was

> based on Japanese research. He had me mince the slices into half inch

> pieces,

> add water, run it through a Vitamix or blender until it turned into a

> slurry

> and decoct for at least an hour at low temperature. These days I decoct

> longer to get the nutrients out of the chitin. Patients who were deficient

> were given 10% cordyceps (which in those days was the real thing, not

> mycellium.) If patients had an upset stomach from the bitterness, a little

> bicarbonate of soda or a digestive mint was given.

>

> Karen S. Vaughan, L.Ac., MSTOM

> Registered Herbalist (AHG)

> Creationsgarden1 <Creationsgarden1%40aol.com>

<Creationsgarden1%40aol.com>

> 253 Garfield Place

> Brooklyn, NY 11215

>

> (718) 622-6755

>

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[Guest guest]

Jason

which product do you use and were do you get it

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

 

 

I actually just buy it in China and ship it, or suitcase it, back.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of alon marcus

Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:33 AM

 

Re: Pao Zhi of Reishi/ Ganoderma

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

which product do you use and were do you get it

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus <alonmarcus%40wans.net>

 

 

[Guest guest]

K,

I find it difficult to believe that ling zhi was not prescribed due to its

unavailability. I would think that there were other reasons.

 

Karen and all,

 

I think the idea of using Vit C to break long polysaccharides is particularly

interesting. There are reputable sports drink products (Carbo Pro for one) that

make claims that a carb replacement drink consisting of short, medium, and long

chain polysac's enables better absorption and utilization as the uptake is

realized, or distributed, over a longer period of time, reducing gastric

distress as well as providing a more even blood sugar profile.

 

While blood sugar levels is not directly the concern in the ling zhi

recommendations, I wonder if it is something we should be taking as gospel- to

use Vit C for better absorption. What is better, and for whom? Something like

ling zhi, in my mind, being an adaptogen and sort of slow moving on its own

energetically (compared to ext releasers or purgatives, say), might actually

benefit the patient by being naturally " time-released " .

 

Perhaps considering " time-release " controls, or " better absorption " , is

redundant when using adaptogens. These plants work wisely within the body.

 

Why should we think that experiments showing increased immediate availability is

a better medicine across the board?

 

I am wondering if others think this differentially based information regarding

extracts could be used, and if the science is right, should be used, according

to treatment principle for a given patient. This is really just a type of pao

zhi, though not in any classic texts.

 

Obviously, the opinion depends on whether one has experience with blending

disciplines, and is comfortable being a creative self-thinking herbalist yet

respectful of tradition, or whether one is more comfortable working within

specific paradigms.

 

In this case, I am more interested in hearing from the many, often quiet,

talented and experienced herbalists on this list that are of the former mention.

Please know that I entertain no judgement against the latter.

 

Regards,

Paul