Treatment of poisoning and resulting Liver failure ...

[Guest guest]

Hey All,

 

I am wondering if anyone has ever treated mushroom poisoning and the resultant

Liver failure, and what their experience was. I have written an article about

my recent experience with a mushroom that has been classified as a mushroom that

may cause " gastric distress " on the forum of the Database -- it is too long to

post here, but you can see what I did and how I treated my own case (don't worry

you can read the article for free -- it is at:

http://db.cm-db.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265#post265. Mostly I am interested

if anyone else has treated this, and what they did to buffer the liver with a

condition where even Western medicine has a hard time saving someone's life.

 

I decided to write up my experience because I had a hard time finding definitive

facts about timelines and benchmarks. The people that have reported their toxic

reactions, at least on the internet, are all over the board about how it

affected them.

 

Interested in what you all have to say.

 

Sincerely,

 

L.Ac.

The Database

[Guest guest]

Jonathan,

 

The mushroom that causes most cases of liver failure is Amanita phalloides, the

death cap. Other species of Amanita also have the deadly amatoxin, but this is

the species most commonly involved. This type of mushroom poisoning is NOT

something that should be handled with oral herbal medicine, since vomiting and

poor absorption will prevent the effective dose from being administered.

 

The most effective treatment does involve an herbal remedy: intravenous

administration of silibinin, derived from milk thistle seed. This treatment has

been successfully employed in Europe for decades now. Recently, a doctor in

Santa Cruz received permission to import the intravenous silibinin to treat a

family who had been poisoned. He also added another protocol that enhanced the

therapeutic effect. Since the amatoxin is reabsorbed with bile in the intestine

and returned to the liver through the hepatic circulation, he put a stent in the

gall bladder to remove all bile as it was produced. This prevented the liver

cells from being bathed in the amatoxin over and over again before it was

finally eliminated. This combination of hepato-protection from the silibinin and

removing the amatoxin through the bile should be the gold standard of treatment

for death cap poisoning.

 

- Bill Schoenbart

 

 

 

, " jonk2012 " <jonk2012 wrote:

>

> Hey All,

>

> I am wondering if anyone has ever treated mushroom poisoning and the resultant

Liver failure, and what their experience was. I have written an article about

my recent experience with a mushroom that has been classified as a mushroom that

may cause " gastric distress " on the forum of the Database -- it is too long to

post here, but you can see what I did and how I treated my own case (don't worry

you can read the article for free -- it is at:

http://db.cm-db.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265#post265. Mostly I am interested

if anyone else has treated this, and what they did to buffer the liver with a

condition where even Western medicine has a hard time saving someone's life.

>

> I decided to write up my experience because I had a hard time finding

definitive facts about timelines and benchmarks. The people that have reported

their toxic reactions, at least on the internet, are all over the board about

how it affected them.

>

> Interested in what you all have to say.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> L.Ac.

> The Database

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for answering my post. I am aware of the milk thistle extract for the

Death Cap (although in my local area do not know who would be able to administer

this -- so thank you for letting me know about the Dr. is Santa Cruz. Every

person who mushrooms should know about this.) In my situation it was a mere

case of " gastric discomfort " . I don't know if you read my post, I trying to

make my post short on this list serv. I was interested in the wide variety of

effects that I had even though the mushroom that I ate was not " deadly toxic. "

What I was curious about is how our medicine would deal with the case of mild

poisoning. We have a treatment protocol for food poisoning, another for

shellfish poisoning, it seems rational that some practitioner would have seen

someone who had poisoning due to other sources.

In my own case: there were at least 3 organ systems involved as well as

multiple channels. Which for me, didn't feel like just a case of " gastric

discomfort. " How would you approach a case such as mine, where you knew that a

patient had ingested something which could be identified as at least mildly

damaging to the liver, and where you were unaware of what the long term effects

were?

My thought is that I deal with a lot of chronic diseases, pain, and emotions/

stress. All of these have a way of running a course while being treated, and

generally do not end in death. I do not generally treat a lot of cases which

will end up with the possibility of death in less then a week. And if the

patient is dying, they generally have known for some time that they are going to

pass on.

I just found it an interesting question to post to the group, because it was

certainly something I had not come across before. Obviously I found my own way

of treating it, so I am not looking for treatment advice for me -- just curious

what others would do in a similar situation.

Once again thanx for answering me, and telling me about the Dr. in Santa Cruz.

The stint in the GB is a great idea -- and I agree with you that it should be

the gold standard in the case of deadly mushroom poisoning.

Sincerely,

 

L.Ac.

The Database

[Guest guest]

Jonathan,

 

The mushroom that you ate, the sulfur shelf, is actually edible for many people.

I have personally eaten it with no problems. There are two factors here: the

east coast species seems to be much less likely to cause gastric distress, and

some people simply have a sensitivity to a mushroom where others don't.

 

The first step in dealing with mushroom poisoning is to identify the species.

Without that, it is impossible to tell if somebody is experiencing a transient

GI event, or if they are on the path to liver destruction. The initial symptoms

are the same. If the mushroom is an Amanita, any delay in providing treatment

can be fatal. The standard treatment protocol in the US is woefully inadequate.

If you know of somebody hospitalized in your area, their doctor should contact Mitchell at Dominican Hospital in Santa Cruz. He will share his protocol,

and at some point he expects to be approved by FDA to stockpile the IV

silibinin, preventing the huge waste of time involved in shipping it here from

Germany.

 

Regarding simple GI reactions to mildly toxic mushrooms, there isn't much that

you can do besides keeping the patient hydrated. They actually need to vomit or

have diarrhea to eliminate the toxins. The big danger is dehydration and loss of

electrolytes. Once the acute phase is over, herbs can be used to address the

stomach upset (ginger), as well as whatever deficiencies are present.

 

- Bill

 

 

, " Chinese Medicine "

<jonk2012 wrote:

>

> Hi Bill,

>

> Thanks for answering my post. I am aware of the milk thistle extract for the

Death Cap (although in my local area do not know who would be able to administer

this -- so thank you for letting me know about the Dr. is Santa Cruz. Every

person who mushrooms should know about this.) In my situation it was a mere

case of " gastric discomfort " . I don't know if you read my post, I trying to

make my post short on this list serv. I was interested in the wide variety of

effects that I had even though the mushroom that I ate was not " deadly toxic. "

What I was curious about is how our medicine would deal with the case of mild

poisoning. We have a treatment protocol for food poisoning, another for

shellfish poisoning, it seems rational that some practitioner would have seen

someone who had poisoning due to other sources.

> In my own case: there were at least 3 organ systems involved as well as

multiple channels. Which for me, didn't feel like just a case of " gastric

discomfort. " How would you approach a case such as mine, where you knew that a

patient had ingested something which could be identified as at least mildly

damaging to the liver, and where you were unaware of what the long term effects

were?

> My thought is that I deal with a lot of chronic diseases, pain, and emotions/

stress. All of these have a way of running a course while being treated, and

generally do not end in death. I do not generally treat a lot of cases which

will end up with the possibility of death in less then a week. And if the

patient is dying, they generally have known for some time that they are going to

pass on.

> I just found it an interesting question to post to the group, because it was

certainly something I had not come across before. Obviously I found my own way

of treating it, so I am not looking for treatment advice for me -- just curious

what others would do in a similar situation.

> Once again thanx for answering me, and telling me about the Dr. in Santa Cruz.

The stint in the GB is a great idea -- and I agree with you that it should be

the gold standard in the case of deadly mushroom poisoning.

> Sincerely,

>

> L.Ac.

> The Database

>