Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I have had two patients in one week ask me about " Red Yeast Rice " . I didn't see it in any of my herb books. What is this stuff? Is it another way of saying Shen Qu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 no, it is hong qu. ann On Dec 12, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Mark wrote: > I have had two patients in one week ask me about " Red Yeast Rice " . I > didn't see it in any of my herb books. What is this stuff? Is it > another way of saying Shen Qu? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Extract from RedRiceYeast.org. 'Red yeast rice is rice that has been fermented by the red yeast, monascus purpureus. It has been used by the Chinese for many centuries as a food preservative, food colorant (it is responsible for the red color of Peking duck), spice, and ingredient in rice wine...... Red yeast rice also has been used in China for over 1,000 years for medicinal purposes. Red yeast rice was described in an ancient Chinese list of drugs as useful for improving blood circulation and for alleviating indigestion and diarrhea. (I would never use or have ever seen my teachers/mentor used it for that purpose because it is too mild. However, it is good as a food additive) 'Recently, red yeast rice has been developed by Chinese and American scientists as a product to lower blood lipids, including cholesterol and triglycerides.....' Patients of high blood pressure are easily lured to buy supplement/otc claiming lowering cholesterol. I had a patient shown me a bottle of such little bottle of red rice yeast extract. It is made by a renowned Chinese herbal phmarceutical company claiming to lower cholesterol. I am sure it will as it contains statin-typed agents aiding at lower lipid. I told her my gradule would take care her cholesteral, TG, LDL, etc issues and no need to buy extra 'supplement'. I remember that my grandmother and then my mom used to make rice wine (for cooking) at home. They put in lots of glutinous rice in a huge buckle and poured in a full bag of red yeast rice and let it fermented. I helped to squeeze the fermented rice and harvested many bottles of home-made rice wine for cooking. The fermented product is reddish and can also be used for cooking. It contains very mild alcohol and are cooked with fish, commonly found in fukienese/Taiwanese dishes. Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Very interesting. So you think red yeast rice is 'spiked' with statins? What is 'gradule'? On Behalf Of Yuk Ming Saturday, December 12, 2009 6:26 PM Re: Red Yeast Rice Extract from RedRiceYeast.org. 'Red yeast rice is rice that has been fermented by the red yeast, monascus purpureus. It has been used by the Chinese for many centuries as a food preservative, food colorant (it is responsible for the red color of Peking duck), spice, and ingredient in rice wine...... Red yeast rice also has been used in China for over 1,000 years for medicinal purposes. Red yeast rice was described in an ancient Chinese list of drugs as useful for improving blood circulation and for alleviating indigestion and diarrhea. (I would never use or have ever seen my teachers/mentor used it for that purpose because it is too mild. However, it is good as a food additive) 'Recently, red yeast rice has been developed by Chinese and American scientists as a product to lower blood lipids, including cholesterol and triglycerides.....' Patients of high blood pressure are easily lured to buy supplement/otc claiming lowering cholesterol. I had a patient shown me a bottle of such little bottle of red rice yeast extract. It is made by a renowned Chinese herbal phmarceutical company claiming to lower cholesterol. I am sure it will as it contains statin-typed agents aiding at lower lipid. I told her my gradule would take care her cholesteral, TG, LDL, etc issues and no need to buy extra 'supplement'. I remember that my grandmother and then my mom used to make rice wine (for cooking) at home. They put in lots of glutinous rice in a huge buckle and poured in a full bag of red yeast rice and let it fermented. I helped to squeeze the fermented rice and harvested many bottles of home-made rice wine for cooking. The fermented product is reddish and can also be used for cooking. It contains very mild alcohol and are cooked with fish, commonly found in fukienese/Taiwanese dishes. Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 not all red yeast rice are spiked and on can get a standardized extract. It work very well and is very predictable 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 There is plenty of info on the internet about this supplement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_yeast_rice <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_yeast_rice> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/152 <http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/152> As Alon noted, it works well. You decide if CoQ10 depletion is an issue. Hong Qu is in the bencaogangmu and yinshanzhengyao, including chinese medicine functions and use, taste, temperature , " Mark " <mark wrote: > > I have had two patients in one week ask me about " Red Yeast Rice " . I didn't see it in any of my herb books. What is this stuff? Is it another way of saying Shen Qu? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 It's illegal to spike herbs, although it happens all the time. In the case of red yeast rice, it's also illegal to declare lovastatin content, even though it is naturally occurring. - Bill , alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote: > > not all red yeast rice are spiked and on can get a standardized > extract. It work very well and is very predictable > > > 400 29th St. Suite 419 > Oakland Ca 94609 > > > > alonmarcus > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi Bill, Isn't Huang Lian Su something of a spiked herb product? Been wondering about that recently. On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2wrote: > > > It's illegal to spike herbs, although it happens all the time. In the case > of red yeast rice, it's also illegal to declare lovastatin content, even > though it is naturally occurring. > > - Bill > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. http://twitter.com/algancao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 , Al Stone <al wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Isn't Huang Lian Su something of a spiked herb product? Been wondering about > that recently. Huang Lian Su can refer to either of two products. Huang Lian Su can be either pure berberine Hcl or a single-herb full-spectrum concentrate of Huang Lian. Sometimes the packaging can even be nearly identical. In the Chinese domestic market and some overseas markets (Thailand comes to mind), Huang Lian Su often refers to berberine Hcl, one of the active constituents in Huang Lian. It is typical to see 50 mg of berberine Hcl per pill. On the US market, Huang Lian Su typically refers to a full-spectrum extract of Huang Lian, which most on this list would find more desirable because it is a full-spectrum botanical extract rather than a pure isolated drug. The confusion arises because the Chinese phrase Huang Lian Su can mean two things: 1) It is the Chinese name for the chemical berberine (in Chinese, berberine is named after Huang Lian, basically like saying " pure defining compound of huang lian " ), and 2) Huang Lian Su can mean " huang lian, on its own. " Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 , " Michael Tierra " <mtierra wrote: > > Very interesting. So you think red yeast rice is 'spiked' with statins? What > is 'gradule'? Red rice yeast is not " spiked " with statins. It contains lovastatin as a natural constituent, just like white willow bark contains aspirin. I think Dr. Sung probably just made a typo of the word " granule " in his previous message. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Red Yeast is not " spiked " with Statins. Statins are naturally occurring in red rice. They do absolutely work. So much so that the FDA did try to outlaw it as a drug. Of course red yeast is not a drug but there is a real problem of it working as one - especially when one is also taking prescription drugs (that contain statins)for their cholesterol. The combination would become a serve overdose. This is also complicated when companies take the natural food red yeasts and make it into standardized concentrated capsules where it no longer is a food but a phyto-drug. Similar to what happened to Ma Huang (ephedrine). gradules are herbs made into gradules (granules) Ed Kasper www.HappyHerbalist.com eddy .................. Very interesting. So you think red yeast rice is 'spiked' with statins? What is 'gradule'? <%40> [ <%40> ] On Behalf Of Yuk Ming Saturday, December 12, 2009 6:26 PM <%40> Re: Red Yeast Rice Extract from RedRiceYeast.org. 'Red yeast rice is rice that has been fermented by the red yeast, monascus purpureus. It has been used by the Chinese for many centuries as a food preservative, food colorant (it is responsible for the red color of Peking duck), spice, and ingredient in rice wine...... Red yeast rice also has been used in China for over 1,000 years for medicinal purposes. Red yeast rice was described in an ancient Chinese list of drugs as useful for improving blood circulation and for alleviating indigestion and diarrhea. (I would never use or have ever seen my teachers/mentor used it for that purpose because it is too mild. However, it is good as a food additive) 'Recently, red yeast rice has been developed by Chinese and American scientists as a product to lower blood lipids, including cholesterol and triglycerides.....' Patients of high blood pressure are easily lured to buy supplement/otc claiming lowering cholesterol. I had a patient shown me a bottle of such little bottle of red rice yeast extract. It is made by a renowned Chinese herbal phmarceutical company claiming to lower cholesterol. I am sure it will as it contains statin-typed agents aiding at lower lipid. I told her my gradule would take care her cholesteral, TG, LDL, etc issues and no need to buy extra 'supplement'. I remember that my grandmother and then my mom used to make rice wine (for cooking) at home. They put in lots of glutinous rice in a huge buckle and poured in a full bag of red yeast rice and let it fermented. I helped to squeeze the fermented rice and harvested many bottles of home-made rice wine for cooking. The fermented product is reddish and can also be used for cooking. It contains very mild alcohol and are cooked with fish, commonly found in fukienese/Taiwanese dishes. Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I apologize for mistyping occasionally. It was really late and I was really tired. I did not check my post before sending it out. It should be granule. I am actually not into modern pharmaceutical terminology. I talk about statins so patients can understand how it relates to CM. Chinese medicine physicians should stick to Chinese medicine diagnosis, patterns, and treatment methods. Learning more western medicine knowledge won't earn us more respects from our WM counterparts. It is the tcm knowledge and clinical efficacy that makes us respectable. Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Al, Huang Lian Su is berberine, a constituent of huang lian. It is legal to sell constituents of herbs as long as they come from the herb and are not synthesized. A huang lian extract that has enhanced berberine content would also be legal. It would be illegal to sell an extract that has undeclared added brberine in order to give the appearance of higher quality. It would also be illegal to sell another plant spiked with berberine as huang lian. - Bill , Al Stone <al wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Isn't Huang Lian Su something of a spiked herb product? Been wondering about > that recently. > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2wrote: > > > > > > > It's illegal to spike herbs, although it happens all the time. In the case > > of red yeast rice, it's also illegal to declare lovastatin content, even > > though it is naturally occurring. > > > > - Bill > > > > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > http://twitter.com/algancao > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 The problem with the FDA was not the efficacy of the product. It was due to making label claims about lovastatin content. Since lovastatin was already an approved drug, any label claim that mentions lovastatin is considered a drug claim. - Bill , " Happy Herbalist " <eddy wrote: > > Red Yeast is not " spiked " with Statins. Statins are naturally occurring in > red rice. They do absolutely work. So much so that the FDA did try to outlaw > it as a drug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Thanks Bill. You are so right. That is why consumers buy those health food supplement in the first place. They content the desired pharmaceutical ingredients and appear as a health food, not a drug. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell how much cholesterol is 'eliminated' within the body. That is the reason I told my patient to stop taking the extract when she was seeing me. I am not afraid of 'spiked' but overdosed. Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 In this 2008 letter, FDA takes action against a company because their red yeast rice product contains 14 mg of lovastatin if taken as directed. That is a high enough dose to match the drug and cause side effects. FDA commented that natural red yeast rice contains little if any lovastatin, and this product contains pharmaceutical levels. They concluded that it was spiked with lovastatin, and therefore illegal: http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2008/ucm1048419.htm - Bill , " Yuk Ming " <sxm2649 wrote: > > Thanks Bill. You are so right. That is why consumers buy those health food supplement in the first place. They content the desired pharmaceutical ingredients and appear as a health food, not a drug. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell how much cholesterol is 'eliminated' within the body. That is the reason I told my patient to stop taking the extract when she was seeing me. I am not afraid of 'spiked' but overdosed. > > Sung, Yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks Eric for your kind and positive assumption. I barely missed your post. You should have contacted me when you visited Hong Kong. We have a lot to catch up. Regards, Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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