Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I bow to Master Fu-zi and Master Wu-tou ... Anyone out there can share their experiences using Fu zi at low dosages and high dosages? ie. Heiner writes that low dosages can guide Fu zi to the channels (all 12), Huang Huang writes that medium dosages are for pain and high dosages are for yang collapse. I've been using Fu zi at the 9-15 gms/ day raw herb dosage in concentrated powder form. Anyone can share their experiences of using lower and higher dosages? (3-6 gms .... 30+ gms) Thanks, K -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Kokko, Take a look at appendix 6 in the new Shang Han Lun Explained text (Arnaud actually recommended this to us) by Greta Young Jie De which is about Fu Zi research. There is a narrative about a Shang Han Lun Ph.D student in Beijing who progressively increases his Fu Zi intake up to 500g a day. I think we have to bow to him now too! There is also some perspectives on preparation and how to interpret 'side effects' of Fu Zi therapy. It states that " during course of medication, flu-like symtoms, body aches, stiffness, headache, aversion to cold or heat, or worsening of existing conditions are all attributed to source qi attacking the nidus of the disease, and are seen as the manifestation of the zheng qi prevailing over the pathogenic qi. " I personally am not confident in telling my patients to be patient while their condition seems to worsen under my watch in part because I don't have a good perspective on how long we might suggest someone tolerate this part of the process. I am particularly interested in how practitioners both prognosticate and communicate expectations around this aspect of Fu Zi therapy with patients. Does anyone have anything to share? Ben Zappin johnkokko Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:24:12 -0800 Masters Fu and Wu I bow to Master Fu-zi and Master Wu-tou ... Anyone out there can share their experiences using Fu zi at low dosages and high dosages? ie. Heiner writes that low dosages can guide Fu zi to the channels (all 12), Huang Huang writes that medium dosages are for pain and high dosages are for yang collapse. I've been using Fu zi at the 9-15 gms/ day raw herb dosage in concentrated powder form. Anyone can share their experiences of using lower and higher dosages? (3-6 gms .... 30+ gms) Thanks, K -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Just a follow-up question to the last one... Why only 1 liang (3 gms) of Fu zi in (Jin gui) shen qi wan? and 10 pieces (90+ gms) in Yi yi fu zi san ? Why raw (peeled and sliced) Fu zi for Si ni tang, Si ni jia ren shen tang, Gan jiang fu zi tang and Tong mai si ni tang, but (baked or blast-fried, peeled and cleaved) for other Fu zi formulas? K On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:24 AM, <johnkokko wrote: > I bow to Master Fu-zi and Master Wu-tou ... > > Anyone out there can share their experiences using Fu zi at low dosages and > high dosages? > ie. Heiner writes that low dosages can guide Fu zi to the channels (all > 12), > Huang Huang writes that medium dosages are for pain and high dosages are > for yang collapse. > > I've been using Fu zi at the 9-15 gms/ day raw herb dosage in concentrated > powder form. > Anyone can share their experiences of using lower and higher dosages? > (3-6 gms .... 30+ gms) > > Thanks, > K > > > > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Ben, Thanks for the tip. Maybe I can see your book at the next Jin gui class? Looks like a good book to invest in. (...Shang han lun Explained) In Huang Huang's " Zhang zhong jing's clinical application of 50 Medicinals " book, appendix III, " ...if 10 gms of Fu zi is used, it should be pre-decocted for 20 min... 40 min for 20 gms, 60 min for 30 gms ie. 20 min for each 10 g of dosage increment. However, if Fu zi is used for relieving pain, decocting duration should not be too long. " Fu zi is almost always combined with sheng jiang, gan jiang or gan cao... so this should also reduce toxicity... 1. pre-processing 2. extra-time to decoct or using concentrated powders 3. combination with other herbs 4. correct diagnosis 5. reasonable dosage Jiao Shu-De seems to be conservative in his usage of Fu zi... 1.5-9 gms for cold-type pain and 9-15 gms for yang collapse. This is consistent with the Bensky 3rd ed. Materia Medica, which is definitely more in line with TCM dosing, not " fire school " dosages. Still curious why Shen qi wan has only 3 gms of Fu zi in it? I've always reasoned that this was the yang within the yin to create Qi... as the alchemical furnace to produce the Golden pill. Other thoughts? K K On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:54 AM, ben zappin <btz23 wrote: > > > > Kokko, > > Take a look at appendix 6 in the new Shang Han Lun Explained text (Arnaud > actually recommended this to us) by Greta Young Jie De which is about Fu Zi > research. There is a narrative about a Shang Han Lun Ph.D student in Beijing > who progressively increases his Fu Zi intake up to 500g a day. I think we > have to bow to him now too! > > There is also some perspectives on preparation and how to interpret 'side > effects' of Fu Zi therapy. It states that " during course of medication, > flu-like symtoms, body aches, stiffness, headache, aversion to cold or heat, > or worsening of existing conditions are all attributed to source qi > attacking the nidus of the disease, and are seen as the manifestation of the > zheng qi prevailing over the pathogenic qi. " > > I personally am not confident in telling my patients to be patient while > their condition seems to worsen under my watch > in part because I don't have a good perspective on how long we might > suggest someone tolerate this part of the process. I am particularly > interested in how practitioners both prognosticate and communicate > expectations around this aspect of Fu Zi therapy with patients. Does anyone > have anything to share? > > Ben Zappin > > <%40> > johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> > Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:24:12 -0800 > Masters Fu and Wu > > > I bow to Master Fu-zi and Master Wu-tou ... > > Anyone out there can share their experiences using Fu zi at low dosages and > high dosages? > ie. Heiner writes that low dosages can guide Fu zi to the channels (all > 12), > Huang Huang writes that medium dosages are for pain and high dosages are > for > yang collapse. > > I've been using Fu zi at the 9-15 gms/ day raw herb dosage in concentrated > powder form. > Anyone can share their experiences of using lower and higher dosages? > (3-6 gms .... 30+ gms) > > Thanks, > K > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Hello Group, I have been using what has been called medium dosages here of fuzi (20 to 30 % of the formula, when taking 8 to 12 grams per day, which translates to 10 -15 grams per day as raw herb, if i assume a concentration ratio of 1 to 5) in granule form in a Sinitang mod. formula setting for short times (1- 4 days), for acute infections and inflammations whith the signs corresponding to a yang deficiency with yin fire. this has been yielding impressingly good results. In Europe I know of Gunter Neeb (I have attended his seminar on the topic) who is doing intensive Fuzi research and experimentation about dosages. He has experience in going up quite high with his dosages. Nina Zhao-Seiler Nina Zhao-Seiler Praxis für Traditionelle Chinesische Medizin Wilfriedstrasse 8 CH-8032 Zürich Tel: +41 44 251 1331 Fax: +41 43 243 6990 ninaseiler www.tongentangpraxis.org www.tcmherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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